Trying to figure out how to deal with a buyer, help needed

[james13v]

Long story short.

Sold a watch. Shipped it to Ireland. Buyer gets it, and messages me that one of the crystals on the watch wasn't there and that he bought a BRAND NEW product and expected such. My product was listed as new with defects.......


It was the weekend and I didn't get a chance to respond to him. He then leaves a negative feedback saying " seller sold defective part. Messages him and he will not respond. bad seller".

I would have seen a crystal missing before I shipped it out. So either he did it, or it happened in transit.

I messaged him, saying

I'm sorry to hear you are not happy with your purchase. I always rectify buyer complaints because I want all my buyers to be happy with their purchase.

The watch I was selling was not listed as brand new, but new with defects, as a lot of my watches are. With that said, I do not recall any crystals being missing before I shipped it out, or I would have mentioned it in my listing. So I can only assume that something got knocked off during shipping, as the inside of the MK boxes are very hard, and being knocked around hard enough might cause something like that to happen. Something like that is typically handled with post office insurance claims. Can you please take a picture of the damage for me, as well as looking in the box or packaging for the loose crystal?

He responds with a picture and says he didn't find any crystal in the package. This would be a TINY thing the size of the head of a pencil lead. So while it might not be in the box, it could have falling off while he's taking it out. Could be freaken anywhere. I respond to that with

Got the picture. I asked my watch maker, who goes over all the watches I sell. Quality check, and new battery. And he also said the crystal was there. So again I can only suspect that the crystal was lost in transit as some point, but if you can't find it, it will be hard to know for sure. I strive for satisfaction of all my customers, so what would you like to do?

I thought that was a good response...

Until he messaged me back

am frustrated that you are saying it would have been lost in transit - the watch was in a box that was sealed shut - there was no crystal in the box and I was never informed of such a fault with the watch it is very noticeable.

If you strive for satisfaction for your customers you should do a more thorough check as I am flabbergasted as to how this was overseen.

How do you propose to rectify this issue?

This is a $150 product and international, with $30 shipping one way. I can't afford to lose this right now, and I'm trying to figure out a way to aim this in a direction to get the negative feedback removed... Any help is appreciated!

[slokor]

At this point you need to be more concerned with losing your money because if he gets any more upset he could end up filing a dispute at which point youll be in a tough situation because from the back and forth between you two you pretty much accept responsibility to the fact something is missing.
If he then decides to send you an empty box then youll end up without the watch and the money will be refunded as well. Its happened to me before.
Be careful how you proceed.
I would just take the watch back and cut my losses. try to get him to remove the negative feedback as well after you accept responsibility for the situation and taking the watch back. He might be more receptive then.

[pennslmmer]

I wouldn't mind take the negative feedback and him keep the item without trying to get a refund...because if he does, you'll end up with a negative fb and at least -$50 in shipping cost. Like slokor said, there is also the chance of him sending you an empty box in return. Paypal 180days dispute window is something you should also be concern with. If you want him to revise the feedback, try and maybe offer him a partial refund. I've had people done this before just so that I can partially refund them.

[jeffweico]

I had never heard of listing an item as "new with defects" before, but I looked it up and it IS a valid option for eBay. Who knew???

Anyway, there is no way to know if this guy has a valid complaint, or if he just does not like the watch and wants to return it. Unfortunately, eBay will most likely side with the buyer if he opens a case, especially since you mentioned that you listing did NOT say the watch was missing a crystal. Whether or not it was damaged in transit is really irrelevant, at least to eBay.

At this point I would send him another message and apologize. Tell him your intention was not to cause frustration, but to try to resolve the situation. If it were me, I would either ask him to file an insurance claim with the shipping carrier or offer him a partial refund. Better yet, ask HIM how he would like the situation resolved and go from there.

When thinking about a partial refund amount, think of the fact that if he ships it back, then YOU will most likely be responsible for the return shipping. Not to mention the shipping to get it to him, which has already been paid for. When these things happen, the goal on that particular sale is no longer PROFIT, but DAMAGE CONTROL. You want to solve this with the smallest possible loss.

I would be very wary of selling watches or electronics as "new with defects". They are already a potential nightmare, even if perfect in every way. Defects on watches and electronics are way different from clothing defects, where the "defect" could be a minor stitching error in the seam that is not even noticeable and that most folks will overlook due to the low price of the item.

The other issue is, international shipping can be a nightmare if an item needs to be sent back, because it gets VERY EXPENSIVE! This is one of the reasons I don't like to ship internationally.

Lastly, you might want to consider selling lower value items, at least until your business has been built up a little bit. When selling on eBay, EVERYBODY eventually has to take a hit. It happens.

[dealagreeproceed]

y do people deal with international buyers? seems like more than enough money within the 50 states...

[GreenBean]

Confused.com here.

How could a seller know that there might be a missing crystal IF said box was despatched SEALED?

Let me know and I will reply with a suggestion.

Buyers eh? Tcsk.

[MM78]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

y do people deal with international buyers? seems like more than enough money within the 50 states...

Exactly! I hear story after story of bad international sales happening and I wonder...is it really worth it? Not to me.

[dealagreeproceed]

Originally Posted by MM78

Exactly! I hear story after story of bad international sales happening and I wonder...is it really worth it? Not to me.

yup unless they wana pay in gold and silver then we can talk

[MM78]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

yup unless they wana pay in gold and silver then we can talk

Yeah, or Bitcoin! lol.....It's funny, every year I get some high priced items and without fail, people from other Countries message me with wanting to buy my item but want me to ship to their Country. I politely tell them that I will be more than glad to ship to any Address in the USA.....Excluding Puerto Rico, and Territories and they can then have the item shipped to them.

[dallis]

Firstly, not EVERY buyer is a scumbag liar looking for a handout. ( Just some of them )

You yourself say it is tiny and could have been lost, particularly if the guy didn't know it had fallen off and it was floating around loose somewhere in the package when he opened it.

If his complaint is legit, and it might be, you owe him a resolution. Your job is to get the product to the buyer in the same condition as he purchased it. If you got a $150 product that was damaged in shipping, you would want the seller to make it right too.

If you are right, and you may be, what's the satisfaction of being right worth? $150? Particularly if nobody but you knows? If it's worth $150 and the defect, then stick to your guns, and keep in mind the negative is going to hurt you, even if you respond to it well.

Otherwise... make a business decision.

Is it worth an extra $30 to get it back? If so, pay the return shipping and refund and ask for a revision.

If not, try to trade the item for the feedback removal and view it as the cost of a lesson learned - don't ever try to sell anything on EB if you can't afford to lose the money or the product or both.

[dealagreeproceed]

Originally Posted by MM78

Yeah, or Bitcoin! lol.....It's funny, every year I get some high priced items and without fail, people from other Countries message me with wanting to buy my item but want me to ship to their Country. I politely tell them that I will be more than glad to ship to any Address in the USA.....Excluding Puerto Rico, and Territories and they can then have the item shipped to them.

to this day I still have no real idea what bitcoin is all about. gives me a headache every time I try to figure it out.

[MM78]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

to this day I still have no real idea what bitcoin is all about. gives me a headache every time I try to figure it out.

Think of Bitcoin like Chuck E Cheese Coins, only you can trade those coins for Dollars. The other thing is that the exchange between Bitcoin to Dollar can go up and down.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

to this day I still have no real idea what bitcoin is all about. gives me a headache every time I try to figure it out.

Cash is still king

[james13v]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

I had never heard of listing an item as "new with defects" before, but I looked it up and it IS a valid option for eBay. Who knew???

Anyway, there is no way to know if this guy has a valid complaint, or if he just does not like the watch and wants to return it. Unfortunately, eBay will most likely side with the buyer if he opens a case, especially since you mentioned that you listing did NOT say the watch was missing a crystal. Whether or not it was damaged in transit is really irrelevant, at least to eBay.

At this point I would send him another message and apologize. Tell him your intention was not to cause frustration, but to try to resolve the situation. If it were me, I would either ask him to file an insurance claim with the shipping carrier or offer him a partial refund. Better yet, ask HIM how he would like the situation resolved and go from there.

When thinking about a partial refund amount, think of the fact that if he ships it back, then YOU will most likely be responsible for the return shipping. Not to mention the shipping to get it to him, which has already been paid for. When these things happen, the goal on that particular sale is no longer PROFIT, but DAMAGE CONTROL. You want to solve this with the smallest possible loss.

I would be very wary of selling watches or electronics as "new with defects". They are already a potential nightmare, even if perfect in every way. Defects on watches and electronics are way different from clothing defects, where the "defect" could be a minor stitching error in the seam that is not even noticeable and that most folks will overlook due to the low price of the item.

The other issue is, international shipping can be a nightmare if an item needs to be sent back, because it gets VERY EXPENSIVE! This is one of the reasons I don't like to ship internationally.

Lastly, you might want to consider selling lower value items, at least until your business has been built up a little bit. When selling on eBay, EVERYBODY eventually has to take a hit. It happens.

I took part of your advice, with the whole " intention not to cause frustration" . I accepted responsibility for the situation ( tho I thought I already did), but did not accept his accusation that I overlooked it. I held fast with the idea that it got loose during shipping, and said that I mentioned it in HOPES that it woudl be that easy, etc etc. Asked them what they wanted to do, said I had contacted ebay for help and was waiting on their response, and offered a refund in full or partial.

They said thank you for contacting ebay. and asked me if I can find a crystal for them. If not, to do a partial refund so they can get it fixed themselves. They had sent me a picture before as well. I never came at this from a perspective that they were lying tho.

As far as defects. I sell a lot of parts and watches with defects. Some times small, sometimes bigger. I point those defects out, lower my price, and I haven't had a complaint yet. If I list them as used, which they typically aren't, then the price would be MUCH lower.

I have A LOT of sales internationally, and a few issues, so it pays off for me. Not only do I charge $18 shipping on what costs me $5 to ship, I also save money that would have been put into shipping " for free" domestically. I haven't had to pay for an international return as of yet. "

my business has been built up for awhile now. My items are from $25 to $300. Averaging $40-80 normally. Ebay lowered my listings 80%, and it killed my business for 2 months and I'm waiting to get it back once the 20th eval comes.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by dallis

Firstly, not EVERY buyer is a scumbag liar looking for a handout. ( Just some of them )

You yourself say it is tiny and could have been lost, particularly if the guy didn't know it had fallen off and it was floating around loose somewhere in the package when he opened it.

If his complaint is legit, and it might be, you owe him a resolution. Your job is to get the product to the buyer in the same condition as he purchased it. If you got a $150 product that was damaged in shipping, you would want the seller to make it right too.

If you are right, and you may be, what's the satisfaction of being right worth? $150? Particularly if nobody but you knows? If it's worth $150 and the defect, then stick to your guns, and keep in mind the negative is going to hurt you, even if you respond to it well.

Otherwise... make a business decision.

Is it worth an extra $30 to get it back? If so, pay the return shipping and refund and ask for a revision.

If not, try to trade the item for the feedback removal and view it as the cost of a lesson learned - don't ever try to sell anything on EB if you can't afford to lose the money or the product or both.

I never considered them to be a scumbag. I've dealt with those. This person was just very quick to leave a negative feedback, and accuse me of not communicating during a weekend.

I don't doubt his complaint is legit. Just the way he went about accusing me of sending it to him like that, and not giving me a chance to respond, is what irked me. And when I was trying to blame shipping, so I could have him help me with insurance, he flew off the handle, telling me essentially, how dare I try to blame shipping, that there was no crystal in the box and therefor I overlooked the defect.

I can afford to lose the money normally, this is just a VERY VERY tight month for me. I can't just avoid selling things that I can't afford to lose.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Confused.com here.

How could a seller know that there might be a missing crystal IF said box was despatched SEALED?

Let me know and I will reply with a suggestion.

Buyers eh? Tcsk.

The box was sealed FOR shipping. As in, the watch was in a closed box, and a missing crystal would theoretically be IN the box when it was opened. He's saying that I should have known the crystal was missing, before I put the watch in the box to ship.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by MM78

Exactly! I hear story after story of bad international sales happening and I wonder...is it really worth it? Not to me.

More than worth it to me thus far. But I suppose it depends on the product one sells.

[dealagreeproceed]

Originally Posted by MM78

Think of Bitcoin like Chuck E Cheese Coins, only you can trade those coins for Dollars. The other thing is that the exchange between Bitcoin to Dollar can go up and down.

hmmm sounds even riskier than paper money

[MM78]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

hmmm sounds even riskier than paper money

It's pretty volatile stuff for sure. It's like playing the stock market.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by MM78

It's pretty volatile stuff for sure. It's like playing the stock market.

Do you have bitcoins?

[rsot]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

Do you have bitcoins?

I don't - yet

[MM78]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

Do you have bitcoins?

Yes, I get them all the time.