When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

LOL.

Not sure where I said I was invincible but if you think an ebay rep should treat a TRS account the same way as someone below standard then well.....

I have nothing to say.

What I am saying is this:

Be careful your own pride as a TRS does not come against you.

Not for one moment do I doubt you do not do your very best.

But ebay has killed accounts of others like you.

Avoid this.

[Haidukken]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Be careful your own pride as a TRS does not come against you.

quoted for troof.

I remember when I first joined ebay I started selling random things around the house. One thing that I sold for 99p became "problematic" as the buyer wanted a refund and opened a case.
I still look back at this transaction because it was hilarious- I was so, so stubborn and refused to give him refund out of a principle, because I said in my listing that the item was used and I don't even know if its working anymore(It was my old SLR camera Flash, Helios 88 or something like that)
Sure enough it got escalated and I lost the case.

Now looking back, when I automatically refund anything less than £20-30, it seems hilarious but a perfect example how "I'm right, I know I am" attitude can sometimes seriously hurt you when it comes to eBay.


Now I just move on, in most cases, because whats the point? I sleep better, knowing that I don't have ANY open cases, because open cases=potential surprises, and I don't like eBay surprises.
When we talk about whats real and whats not real, who knows? Just refund the poor sod, know that he just got some free stuff of you, and move on.
You don't want to lose your account over nothing- You are focusing on that one sale, one customer and one case, but you are in danger of losing long term goal- A healthy account that lasts for a long time and that creates you hundereds, if not thousands of sales.

Don't get stuck in a moment, just keep on moving.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by mcmx

I'd personally be worried about the buyer leaving a negative feedback claiming you sell f@kes.

That would kill the credibility of the account and future sales.

Out of fear of that, I'd agree to a refund with the condition they leave me a positive feedback saying "Thanks" first.

A lot of times I almost welcome the case if I know I'm getting a negative. Any case opened gets connected to the feedback so even if they open another separate case they can't leave feedback.

I honestly think this happened because I had sold a jersey to someone two months ago and they just now left feedback saying "all went great but the jersey is phake". Mind you he left positive feedback.

So it seems a little ironic I get someone claiming I sold them a "phake" when I just got feedback claiming the same thing. Oh well...

In all honestly these types of situations are new to me. I increase in sales every month because I'm always reinvesting in myself so naturally my sales increase. The more sales the more "possible" problems.

And I do safe guard my TRS status because when buying clothes it increases your sales ALOT. You get way more international sales and new comers, which I welcome. You get away with selling NWOT more and buyers simply trust you more, naturally. It's hard to maintain a TRS accounts though, it's not easy in the clothes business.

[newjerseymax]

Originally Posted by mcmx

I'd personally be worried about the buyer leaving a negative feedback claiming you sell f@kes.

That would kill the credibility of the account and future sales.

Out of fear of that, I'd agree to a refund with the condition they leave me a positive feedback saying "Thanks" first.

This is a fine line in ebay policy....

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by newjerseymax

This is a fine line in ebay policy....

Yeah actually that would be the worst thing to do in this type of situation IMHO.

Reason being is you cannot ask the buyer to leave positive in exchange for something just like a buyer cannot request the seller to do something and if they don't comply they will leave a negative.

If you did that the buyer could easily just keep the money and leave a negative and you can't do anything about it. Actually if you let eBay review the message where you made that type of offer they could restrict you from selling if they truly wanted to.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Not even going to read the thread.

My 2 cents:

Don't enable bad behavior.

Refunding a buyer who you KNOW is intentionally trying to scam you ENCOURAGES the behavior in the future.

I'm lucky enough to be financially stable so that I don't need to please EVERY buyer. I can take a hit or three. For me, the principle matters more than the $$$. Unless you have a history of complaints, or are on new account, ONE bad buyer won't tank your account.

I agree with you solefood, the behavior has to be dealt with. SOMEONE has to stand up and say: "NO. I'm not going to allow you to steal from me."

[trg005]

Originally Posted by newjerseymax

I have been in this situation many times... The category I sell in is highly counterfeited. I always upload pictures of the actual item being sold. A Invoice from Legitimate supplier that I am an authorized seller, then I include the name of my sales rep, His phone number, his extension and my account number.

I have never lost using this method... It comes back to having all your ducks in a row... Prepare for cases before selling.

Also, when you source your product always think "how would ebay like this and how would I fight a case"... If I cannot come to solid answer then its not worth selling.

Do NOT get comfortable with that strategy. Everything we know, is over. Finished. Let me say, you HAVE done everything the right way. However, you've left out the MOST IMPORTANT fact: it's PayPal. It's eBay. .... They are the Stepford Wives of Business. Dumb & Dumber. No brain function. There is no way to know what those Walkng Dead employees will do. They must get really great perks, bonuses & lobotomies to find in favor of the buyer, scammer when a seller, you, proves your case. Soon, the day will come you'll lose. Be prepared.
If you knew what PayPal has done to me, and so many other sellers.. I'm 2 months into this. USPS, & now the FBI are both on my side. Remember this, proof means nothing to pp, eBay. Company Kickbacks must ease their guilty conscience ....

[muzzie]

As we all know, buyers are always right, even if they are scamming you, as EB does not care what the seller says. So I personally better spend my time and health to earn more funds other than sending zillions of mails and calling to ebay to talk to another brainless monkey.

[Haidukken]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Not even going to read the thread.

My 2 cents:

Don't enable bad behavior.

Refunding a buyer who you KNOW is intentionally trying to scam you ENCOURAGES the behavior in the future.

I'm lucky enough to be financially stable so that I don't need to please EVERY buyer. I can take a hit or three. For me, the principle matters more than the $$$. Unless you have a history of complaints, or are on new account, ONE bad buyer won't tank your account.

I agree with you solefood, the behavior has to be dealt with. SOMEONE has to stand up and say: "NO. I'm not going to allow you to steal from me."

Ermmm, thats almost exactly the opposite to what I would do in his situation and what I do in my situation.

When I'm together with my friends and somebody throws a "fact" out there, then I'd be more than happy to argue over it and prove him wrong- With the help of Google or if its more delicate "perspective" or "point of view" things I'd perhaps use examples and different talking points to change that persons view.

BUT, when it comes to online sales and running a stealth account its pretty simple: the less problems, the easier it is for me.
Sure, when you don't have the bank to take the hit, its more complicated but generally if you feel that "I can take a hit or three" then why wouldn't you?

Whats the deal with people "fighting the fight"? It's online and its totally random people doing it, you are not proving a point to anyone.

I guess each to their own, but the whole white knight things about justice is so overrated. Take that same energy and do something productive with it, something that matters.

[trg005]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

What I am saying is this:

Be careful your own pride as a TRS does not come against you.

Not for one moment do I doubt you do not do your very best.

But ebay has killed accounts of others like you.

Avoid this.

Exactly! Cooler heads prevail. Pride cometh before a fall, Pick your battles. Etc etc ..

[Haidukken]

pick your battles? Nah bruh, I'll just avoid all sorts of battles and if possible, just throw money at the problem till it goes away.

Its business, nothing personal. In business, everything boils down to numbers, nothing else. Time is the most important number, nothing beats it.
If business is a game of blackjack, time is house.

[jackdanielsbtch]

Before, if a buyer claimed it was ⊗⊗⊗⊗, they would be required to get proof. Even if there is a million things wrong and one of them is that it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Unless they got proof, they wouldn't get refund.

Paypal/Ebay ditched this policy ~2 years ago because it's impossible to get proof. Most retailers will not write document stating it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ because (1) your not their customer, you didn't buy from them (2) liability - retailer has a lot to lose, can be asked to show up in court etc. and nothing to gain

now they don't require any proof, ebay will just ask them to return it. i'd 100% work it out with buyer, if it's sent to ebay your screwed. if you sold under ~25 items and one says it's ⊗⊗⊗⊗ you'll be asked to supply invoices.

note even if items are legit and you receive many ⊗⊗⊗⊗ claims, ebay/paypal will be quick to drop you. a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ claim counts almost like 5x a regular claim.


On a side note I sold a $3k jacket few years ago, buyer claimed ⊗⊗⊗⊗, than damaged etc. It was real and ebay asked to get proof and he some how got proof and was able to return for 100% refund. At this point I know something is fishy because it was real. Ebay won't tell me where he got document, they say it's big retailer and they called to confirm. Eventually one ebay rep slipped and told me where. It was a Macy's store by an employee with the same last name as the buyer. Macy's doesn't even sell this brand name, and that employee works in household goods. Long story short, the employee was the scammer's dad. He's fired now as for the case, I blamed ebay for negligence, they said i had a refund policy so regardless they would of asked him to return it, i told them my return policy also says 50% restocking fee so ebay ended up paying me $1,500 and I got my item back. Man, the good ole days where ebay admits faults and corrects itself

[empirestate]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Not even going to read the thread.

My 2 cents:

Don't enable bad behavior.

Refunding a buyer who you KNOW is intentionally trying to scam you ENCOURAGES the behavior in the future.

I'm lucky enough to be financially stable so that I don't need to please EVERY buyer. I can take a hit or three. For me, the principle matters more than the $$$. Unless you have a history of complaints, or are on new account, ONE bad buyer won't tank your account.

I agree with you solefood, the behavior has to be dealt with. SOMEONE has to stand up and say: "NO. I'm not going to allow you to steal from me."

Childish answer. Your answer only applies to UTOPIAN world. Did you stand up to eBay/Paypl when they tried to ban or limit your account/money? I bet you hired the top lawyer in the country and sued them, didn't you?

[trg005]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Not even going to read the thread.

My 2 cents:

Don't enable bad behavior.

Refunding a buyer who you KNOW is intentionally trying to scam you ENCOURAGES the behavior in the future.

I'm lucky enough to be financially stable so that I don't need to please EVERY buyer. I can take a hit or three. For me, the principle matters more than the $$$. Unless you have a history of complaints, or are on new account, ONE bad buyer won't tank your account.

I agree with you solefood, the behavior has to be dealt with. SOMEONE has to stand up and say: "NO. I'm not going to allow you to steal from me."

I get what you are saying. My thoughts..YOU come before the buyer. For you and all the members here, we are sellers & buyers. We are not policing, or raising those little scammers. Enabling or encouraging anyone. We can't control future behavior. We can only control ourselves. i personally would refund and roll off my back. 200 is a small amount. Why draw attention and potentially lose a stealth acct? You are financially secure but some here, not so much.
Me, $9-10,000.00....+ Merchandise will not be returned to me! that to me is worth losing an account over. PayPal limited me, withdrew 2000 from my bank, then another 3500.00. PayPal does not like it when a sellers bank (my bank) withdrew 2000 then 3000 ach from PayPals BankAccount then my bank blocked PayPal, Fraud. Dayum....that felt awesome.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by empirestate

Childish answer. Your answer only applies to UTOPIAN world. Did you stand up to eBay/Paypl when they tried to ban or limit your account/money? I bet you hired the top lawyer in the country and sued them, didn't you?

This isn't even apples and oranges...it's apples and rocks.

Some 2 bit scammer on eBay and eBay itself aren't only not in the same ball park, they're on different planets.....

My answer applies everywhere. I WIN my cases. Since you like giving out free product, why don't you just PM me your eBay links? I'll buy your stuff and get it for free, since I know you won't fight me about it....

You're a sucker.

[realdeals]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

My answer applies everywhere. I WIN my cases.

Then you are the best stealther on the planet and far superior to everyone else on the forum.

Unfortunately the rest of us live in the real world. We know that even if we are 110% in the right, and provide undisputable proof in cases, ebay will side with the buyer the vast majority of the time. It is just not a profitable use of time to keep fighting cases for insignificant amounts.

[empirestate]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Not even going to read the thread.

Sum1 got a big EGO....

[realdeals]

Solefoodbk......how long ago did you buy this stock via paypal?

What would stop you just giving a refund and then requesting one yourself from your supplier?

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by realdeals

Then you are the best stealther on the planet and far superior to everyone else on the forum.

Unfortunately the rest of us live in the real world. We know that even if we are 110% in the right, and provide undisputable proof in cases, ebay will side with the buyer the vast majority of the time. It is just not a profitable use of time to keep fighting cases for insignificant amounts.

That's because you fight via eBays case center....I CALL and talk to a live HUMAN BEING.

The outsourced Indian reps don't know their butt from a hole in the ground...you need to talk ON THE PHONE with an AMERICAN REP. Explain the situation, you use certain terms and quote their own rules to them...

If you're just another #, of course you'll lose cases. But I'm a person, and I don't get treated like another #. Because I'm not afraid to make my case "in person" (not literally, but you get my point.)

Also, it's not about the $$$$. Some things are more important than money. Everytime you refund someone you know is scamming you, you're making it that much harder on the next seller he buys from.

[solefoodbk]

Just to expand off GOA...

When you hit the button "escalate case as seller" or you let the buyer escalate it a computer is generating the results. In other words its only going off data. This is why sellers 99.99% loose if you let the computer generate the results.

If I were eBay I'd do the same thing. If the seller can't or doesn't feel its necessary to spend the extra 5-10 minutes to call in then in all reality you should loose the case. Its the lazy choice to let the computer generate the result, and your basically asking to loose EVERY case.

Its not good enough excuse to say you aren't good at communication either. Your choosing to be a seller on eBay's platform. Communication is apart of business. If you can't communicate it is IMPOSSIBLE to grow a business.

I don't see why you guys act like $175 is chump change?

It's okay to act a certain way on the internet but I guarantee if you can throw away $175 then you either are a millionaire or flat out lying. Sure I know certain things are simply a "cost of doing business" but if you have someone clearly taking advantage of you, its not "cost of doing business", that's the easy way out.

This is really the reason why some of us face this problem. Because some sellers on eBay bend over backwards for even the dumbest complaint. To me its worth it, maybe not to you. But for all you who complain about buyers doing this crap, this is EXACTLY why.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

I don't see why you guys act like $175 is chump change?

It's okay to act a certain way on the internet but I guarantee if you can throw away $175 then you either are a millionaire or flat out lying. Sure I know certain things are simply a "cost of doing business" but if you have someone clearly taking advantage of you, its not "cost of doing business", that's the easy way out.

This is really the reason why some of us face this problem. Because some sellers on eBay bend over backwards for even the dumbest complaint. To me its worth it, maybe not to you. But for all you who complain about buyers doing this crap, this is EXACTLY why.

To clarify my point, I will fight tooth and nail over $10 IF I know someone is trying to SCAM me.

On the other hand, if I SCREWED UP, I will often just refund the buyer and eat the loss, because it is a customer service issue, NOT a fraud issue.

In the case solefoodbk describes, the buyer is trying to get the item for free. I don't believe that these things are a "one time only" deal, I think people who engage in this behavior do so willingly and repeatedly. And if more than half the sellers they pull it on just issue a refund without so much as a finger lifted in protest, honestly, can you blame them for stealing from you?

If you're so lazy as to not lock your car when you leave it outside, don't be angry when you find the valuables you left inside are gone when you return.

I don't believe in making a big deal out of everything, but in cases where I am 100% certain the buyer is attempting to defraud me, I WILL win, and they will NOT get any money back.

If you want to let them get away with theft, that's fine, it's YOUR money. But next time you're feeling charitable, just PM me and I'll give you one of my PayPal emails. You can send the money to me instead. I promise I'll make better use of it.

[trg005]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

That's because you fight via eBays case center....I CALL and talk to a live HUMAN BEING.

The outsourced Indian reps don't know their butt from a hole in the ground...you need to talk ON THE PHONE with an AMERICAN REP. Explain the situation, you use certain terms and quote their own rules to them...

If you're just another #, of course you'll lose cases. But I'm a person, and I don't get treated like another #. Because I'm not afraid to make my case "in person" (not literally, but you get my point.)

Also, it's not about the $$$$. Some things are more important than money. Everytime you refund someone you know is scamming you, you're making it that much harder on the next seller he buys from.

Ghost of Amazon....I see a new career path for you! Be me!! Call PayPal & be me. What's your hourly rate? PP puts me on hold...then disconnect.