When a buyer claims what you sold them is "phake"

[solefoodbk]

Alright I just had a buyer claim what I sold them is "phake".

Little while ago I started "drop shipping" or in my case pre sale. I listed a shirt and when it sold I bought it via a very popular online and brick & motor outlet store.

There claim is that I listed the country incorrectly and the shirt was really made out of "china". Clearly that statement is A) ignorant B) racist

Thousand upon thousands of brands are manufactured in China. I honestly don't even know if I screwed up and listed the country incorrectly or not but I know its the real thing. So I phoned eBay and they said "blah blah blah you have to accept the return". I called back and got a AMERICAN rep and basically just asked her to admit I have no protection when a buyer claims something is phake. Because if you wont accept an invoice that came out of my PAYPAL account and the fact im TRS & Powerseller with 4.9 DSR's and 0 defects then you just don't protect sellers, period. What in reality could I provide to you as proof their statement is false?

She then told me because the buyer clearly said they removed the tags before they noticed the "discrepancy" off a TECHNICALITY I'm covered. Now I think most reps still will side with the buyer but if I call 4-5 times I'll get one to side with me. Any thoughts?

We all face this issue at least once and I'm curious who has won this type of claim and how.

Thanks

P.S the invoice has my ADDRESS ON FILE, my STEALTH name, AND email address associated with both eBay, and paypal accounts.

[jeffweico]

I know this is not what you asked, but I have always just immediately refunded such people. The few times when a claim would get to eBay, I made a statement that I would never knowingly sell anything counterfeit and that I believe that the buyer is wrong, but that I will refund their money to avoid any hard feelings. That usually allowed me to save the account. The fact is, even when you sell totally legitimate items, at some point you will be accused of selling counterfeits. There are some buyers out there who know this is a great way to get stuff for free. And they know it is always better to target the small sellers. Because if they claim an item they got from Newegg is counterfeit, eBay will side with the seller. So they target us instead.

[solefoodbk]

Sorry, I'm not refunding someone $179 bucks because they want to make a false claim. Maybe that's the smart route but I just can't allow someone to take advantage of me like that.

I buy a lot of my stuff from goodwill, salvation army and if I bought it from there then sure I wouldn't have a strong case. In reality anything bought from goodwill or salvation army could be "phake" its almost impossible nowandays to know for sure.

But because I truly know its real, because it was bought from a authorized reseller its just very very hard for me to let someone try to do this. I don't know.....If I win I at least know another "technicality" that can be used to win cases. Once again its all off how someone words their complaint, NOT the actual complaint itself.

I'm hoping they open a case today so I can just get this over with. Extremely frustrating

[jeffweico]

If you have a legitimate authorized supplier, that changes the equation. Because if eBay calls you on it, you can prove they are the real thing.

The thing is, to get items cheap enough to be competitive on eBay usually requires sourcing them for non-conventional supply channels. Not every non-conventional supply channel has a legitimate source of supply, so in those cases eBay errs on the side of caution to protect themselves.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

If you have a legitimate authorized supplier, that changes the equation. Because if eBay calls you on it, you can prove they are the real thing.

One rep told me EVEN IF I got a document FROM the actual brand stating its authentic they wouldn't accept it.







It's probably the stupid rep I talked to but again I did this 100% correctly, in stealth terms. I bought it via my PAYPAL account, with my STEALTH name as the billing name, and my email address associated with both accounts. The address it was sent to was my address on file and was the REAL BUSINESS NAME that is on my BUSINESS Paypal account.

We'll see shortly....

[bcarneal]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

One rep told me EVEN IF I got a document FROM the actual brand stating its authentic they wouldn't accept it.







It's probably the stupid rep I talked to but again I did this 100% correctly, in stealth terms. I bought it via my PAYPAL account, with my STEALTH name as the billing name, and my email address associated with both accounts. The address it was sent to was my address on file and was the REAL BUSINESS NAME that is on my BUSINESS Paypal account.

We'll see shortly....

I'd expect eBay to always side with the buyer in a counterfeit claim, regardless of what documentation you can provide. I am NOT saying I agree with this, just what I expect.

It's just like the "I received an empty box" claim that eBay always decides with the buyer on. I've seen stories from many very legit accounts that sell very expensive gold coins that have gotten ripped off on this.

The problem is even with a legit invoice, eBay doesn't 100% KNOW if some of the seller's items are legit, and perhaps they knowingly "pad" their inventory with others to bring their average cost down.

I don't agree with always siding with the buyer, but granted, I don't know what else they could do. They do have to make consistent rulings I guess. And, they can't afford to do an in-person investigation.

IMO, you lucked out on this one because the customer admits they physically altered the product by cutting off the tag. eBay will see that no different than if they burned it and wanted to return it.

[solefoodbk]

I agree and I disagree.

I always "try" to use this as a example when talking to a rep but it never works in their small minds. If you are a seller that is TOP RATED PLUS with 0 defects and has consistently proven your doing your job correctly I personally feel you should NOT get treated the same as someone that just opened an account, better yet someone that has a bunch of negatives or who is below standard.

That part makes 0 sense to me. It's like if you worked at a store and was the employee of the month X amount of times and everyone knows your doing above and beyond the call of duty and a customer, say pays for something with $100 dollars for a $5 item and they claim you shorted them, should the company really press charges on the employee that has proven themselves time and time again?

Maybe thats not the best example but my point is what is the point of having feedback, being a top rated seller all the stuff they claim is important to be successful if again they review cases the same way if I were to have 5 negatives just left on an account with a 10% defect rating..doesn't make any sense to me.

Sure your right. I could have just bought the shirt and someone found a "phake" remake of the exact same shirt and resold. That's the part I agree on.

[GreenBean]

What scares me is what you are going to do should a TRS account be taken down because you hope you are invincible.

[muzzie]

After 1st of February I just stopped arguing with my buyers, I just refund and forget, as my brain cells cost more than the whole eBay combined. Even at a loss, I prefer to be a mentally healthy person, healthy brain will bring me more profits, as arguing with buyers is a hell work.

[newjerseymax]

I have been in this situation many times... The category I sell in is highly counterfeited. I always upload pictures of the actual item being sold. A Invoice from Legitimate supplier that I am an authorized seller, then I include the name of my sales rep, His phone number, his extension and my account number.

I have never lost using this method... It comes back to having all your ducks in a row... Prepare for cases before selling.

Also, when you source your product always think "how would ebay like this and how would I fight a case"... If I cannot come to solid answer then its not worth selling.

[Retailer77]

Its a tough call..you could "open up a case with ebay" ...BUT then you get one defect rate increase because its a "case closed without seller resolution"....and your only allowed to have 2 of those, any more than two and you go into the "below standard" status.

It is a tough call..

[Retailer77]

Originally Posted by muzzie

After 1st of February I just stopped arguing with my buyers, I just refund and forget, as my brain cells cost more than the whole eBay combined. Even at a loss, I prefer to be a mentally healthy person, healthy brain will bring me more profits, as arguing with buyers is a hell work.

I highly agree with this^

[bjammin]

eBay does not look at you like a counterfeiter just because a buyer says "counterfeit" They get this BS all the time. They are aware that people just sometimes are plain ignorant or just out to get something for free. The only time I have had to worry about getting tagged for counterfeit items is when I get an email stating that VER0 took me down or a message stating that my item has been used in similar listings that have not been authentic. So just because a buyer says "counterfeit" doesnt mean ebay will side with them.

However, the buyer not being able to return the item through eBay in its original condition is definitely good for you. If the buyer had any sense, they would open a SNAD PayPal claim, if your truly listed the "country of manufacture" incorrectly. That way they can just cut your legs off then run over you.

[glacier922]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

Sorry, I'm not refunding someone $179 bucks because they want to make a false claim. Maybe that's the smart route but I just can't allow someone to take advantage of me like that.

I buy a lot of my stuff from goodwill, salvation army and if I bought it from there then sure I wouldn't have a strong case. In reality anything bought from goodwill or salvation army could be "phake" its almost impossible nowandays to know for sure.

But because I truly know its real, because it was bought from a authorized reseller its just very very hard for me to let someone try to do this. I don't know.....If I win I at least know another "technicality" that can be used to win cases. Once again its all off how someone words their complaint, NOT the actual complaint itself.


I'm hoping they open a case today so I can just get this over with. Extremely frustrating

It is best to send them a prepaid shipping label and have it sent back to you the correct way. Too many times, the buyer wants to send it back to the registered address, which we know could pose problems for the seller. But if u offer to pay for the shipping back, at least u know u get it back the right way. Buyers usually never complain about that I have found if the seller pays for shipping, just something u have to eat up, cost of doing business.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

What scares me is what you are going to do should a TRS account be taken down because you hope you are invincible.

LOL.

Not sure where I said I was invincible but if you think an ebay rep should treat a TRS account the same way as someone below standard then well.....

I have nothing to say.

[glacier922]

Originally Posted by muzzie

After 1st of February I just stopped arguing with my buyers, I just refund and forget, as my brain cells cost more than the whole eBay combined. Even at a loss, I prefer to be a mentally healthy person, healthy brain will bring me more profits, as arguing with buyers is a hell work.

What happened on feb 1? I thought new changes coming on feb 20?

[swbluto]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

LOL.

Not sure where I said I was invincible but if you think an ebay rep should treat a TRS account the same way as someone below standard then well.....

I have nothing to say.

I love it when my business model means that even the most expensive orders ($200) literally costs me $10 out of pocket, and more like $3-4 at most. With a refund rate somewhere around 1% (Usually spikes right after Christmas), I'm usually swimming in cash.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by swbluto

I love it when my business model means that even the most expensive orders ($200) literally costs me $10 out of pocket, and more like $3-4 at most. With a refund rate somewhere around 1% (Usually spikes right after Christmas), I'm usually swimming in cash.

I made over 6K last month which is the most I've made since I started selling.

I do good for myself but I have a back bone too. If I put 175$ in your hands and said its yours then someone grabbed it out of your hands and said "nope" I can assure you wouldn't let them do it..

Its only because we sell strictly on the internet that people try these games with us. I know he wouldn't pull this crap in a real brick & motor store. Even if he did they would laugh at him.

[LoopHole]

Wondering how this turns out. I've seen both out comes in situations like this. Even though the customer took off the tags i would have just accepted the return and put up up for sale again. Calling in paypal and ebay talking with them and arguing with the buyer is something i would rather avoid to save me some time and anger even i was in the right.

[dealagreeproceed]

him admitting to messing with tag is what you need to cling on to HARD... forget proving if it really is auth at this point in my opinion... maybe worst case scenario you send him a small partial refund to shut him up and you move on...

[dealagreeproceed]

also its buyers like this who I hope n pray are also selling ANYTHING on their acct... if you catch my drift...

[mcmx]

I'd personally be worried about the buyer leaving a negative feedback claiming you sell f@kes.

That would kill the credibility of the account and future sales.

Out of fear of that, I'd agree to a refund with the condition they leave me a positive feedback saying "Thanks" first.