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  #23  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

I would wait to see what the buyers do first. Going to court never works out as well as we hope it does.

Depending on the details of what happened, you might have to file a lawsuit in the buyer's jurisdiction, not your own. Otherwise, you would be forcing the buyer to travel to YOUR neck of the woods to defend themselves and that may not fly - again, it depends on the circumstances. At least that is what would happen in the US, I have no idea if the same thing applies in the UK.

And when the courts get involved, you never know WHAT can happen. Just because you have a specific idea of what the outcome should be does not mean that the judge will necessarily agree with you.

I am not saying that the OP should not go to court, but it should be a LAST RESORT, not their first option.

As far as suing eBay goes, good luck with that! eBay has ARMIES of lawyers just WAITING for people to sue them. I always hear people complaining that eBay acts in an illegal manner, sends illegal emails etc. But the fact is, they are probably on solid ground, legally. Everything large companies do is vetted by their lawyers first. Every policy, the wording on every letter... ALL of that is approved by their legal department. So, your case against eBay may not be as solid as you think.

I would have taken a softer approach with the buyers, emailing them to explain you had an issue with eBay, and asking them VERY POLITELY to return the phones or pay for them outside of eBay. If that didn't work, my next email would have been a little bit harder, again asking for a return or for payment. I would have added something about it not being morally right to keep both the money and the phones. Only on my third email would I bring up reporting this to the police or suing them in court. And then, I would have wrote the emails VERY professionally.

I get the feeling that in the OP's case, she allowed her anger at eBay to spill over into her emails to the buyers, who were probably offended by her tone and may now decide that she can go you-know-what herself for her money or her phones. That is psychology 101. If you want something from someone, ask nicely first. Appeal to their sense of fairness. If they refuse to respond, THEN you slowly raise the stakes and do it in a reasoned manner. Because in the end, a reasoned and well thought out argument laying out potential consequences is ALWAYS scarier than a bunch of threats, made off-the-cuff.

You have to remember that eBay was the actual cause of this situation. When they suspend your account, they send all of your active buyers (I think within the last 30 days) an email saying they had to end the auction and close your account for security reasons that may involve fraud, illegal activity or whatever and that they took the action to keep the eBay community safe. They encourage the buyers to file claims for refunds.

I think these emails are stupid on eBay's part, because it makes them look bad. But they are probably allowed to send them legally, because SOMEWHERE in their user agreement is language that allows them to do so. I guarantee it.

Anyway, the buyer sees that email and files a claim, mostly because eBay just scared the hell out of them and they don't want to end up being out the money for their purchase - especially since this was NOT a $10 item.

Next thing the buyer knows, they get an email from the seller, written in the heat of the moment threatening court and the police if they do not do this, that and the other. The buyer, already not happy with the whole situation is VERY LIKELY to react negatively to that email and just decide not to deal with the seller at all. And they probably feel justified in doing so, because eBay told them to.

Now, if the email from the seller was calmer, asking for their help because of an eBay dispute, then they might have reacted much differently. I would have used something like "Hey, this happens to many people at one point or another on the eBay platform, and I'm just trying to get by like anyone else and how would you feel if you were out both your item and the money and I'm asking you to help me out and do the right thing here..." Not that exact wording, but you get the idea.

And that would leave open the option of sending further emails that would actually be read. Because now, when the buyer sees the seller's email, they are going to think, OH, another email from that nutcase again! *I* wouldn't bother with it. But, then again, I would have probably looked over the phone and decided whether or not I wanted to keep it and paid the seller if I decided to keep it. But *I* also know how eBay works, where the buyer in this situation probably does not. We sellers may be distrustful of eBay, but they actually have a FAIRLY GOOD reputation amongst the general public. We eat, sleep and breathe this eBay stuff, but they don't. We realize this happens to lots of innocent sellers, but they don't - they just think you are a scammer, because a company they generally trust TOLD THEM you are a scammer.

I wish the OP luck, of course, and hope that these buyers do the right thing. I am not AGAINST the OP, I just think they went about dealing with this in a way that was counterproductive.

Last edited by jeffweico; 11-30-2014 at 06:46 AM.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Just to add, the LAST thing the OP would want is an eBay lawyer to show up in court. Because they will bring up a few things.

1 - The seller, by his own admission, sold counterfeit items at one point, although he claimed not to know they were counterfeits.

2 - The seller, again by his own admission, brokered a deal between some company and a few individuals where the company was limiting the offer to one per person/address and the seller was advising his buyers to use multiple addresses to get around that rule.

3 - eBay allegedly linked his seller account to a closed account and had some cases of buyers filing claims for items not being as described.

When you take all of this together, it does NOT look so good for the OP! eBay would use these facts to paint the seller as an opportunistic scam artist who is upset that they stopped him from scamming people.

I am not saying that is what the OP DID, but that is the way that eBay will make it look.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

My attorneys starts at $350.00 an hour. A cheap attorney is $150.00 an hour. The amount of time it would take to meet with and attorney is hundreds of dollars an hour.

Maybe that is a different perspective.

Basically what happened is, YOU as a seller had an issue. Ebays policies made you have a significantly larger finical loss in negative energy, wasted time and attortneys fees.

It happens. Odds are the buyer will never contact you and the odds are you will never get the funds even if you have an attorney, but for sure it will cost you.

Also keep in mind, They already did pay for the item, they wanted the item, the item was deleivered etc.. In the court of law, This is pretty hard to beat.

What you are saying is that every time you get a chargeback and the buyer gets to keep the item and your fees, you are going to sue.

Unfortunelty it just does not work out that way 99% of the time.
It sucks.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

I did not say that the OP must go to court over it, i simply said you cannot expect him to write it off and do nothing after all it is not just 1 item for $725 , he talks about multiple items.

I know NO ONE here would be okay with losing this kind of money. Unless you are Donald Trump!
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Best of luck with your decision OP - ranting and venting helps with the frustration, I hear you
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
Best of luck with your decision OP - ranting and venting helps with the frustration, I hear you
Amen to that!
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunneh View Post
I did not say that the OP must go to court over it, i simply said you cannot expect him to write it off and do nothing after all it is not just 1 item for $725 , he talks about multiple items.

I know NO ONE here would be okay with losing this kind of money. Unless you are Donald Trump!

OP still has options.

And rsot is busy feeling for him.

That's a great comfort.

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  #30  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBean View Post
OP still has options.

And rsot is busy feeling for him.

That's a great comfort.

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  #31  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunneh View Post
I did not say that the OP must go to court over it, i simply said you cannot expect him to write it off and do nothing after all it is not just 1 item for $725 , he talks about multiple items.

I know NO ONE here would be okay with losing this kind of money. Unless you are Donald Trump!

Haha tushay.

Again what yankee said makes 100% complete sense to ME. No one wants to lose this amount of money BUT again there are very few options in this scenario. All of who sell on eBay know this already, don't act like you don't.

Regardless of the fact I would be "okay" to lose the amount of money doesn't negate the fact I for one couldn't realistically afford all the court fees/lawyer fees that would entail. Its not cost productive. Smart business men/women weigh these things in before going into court. Thats why if you have a credit card default with say 2,500 unpaid, they probably wouldn't bring you to court..why? Its simply not worth it on their end.

Its just the nature of the business were in. You can pout and feel sorry for yourself or just move and on and try to prevent this to ever happen again. Dropshipping already had been discussed as a poor method of delivery for reasons like this. Not trying to even change topic and go there but its the truth.

I'm not trying to act like I can just "afford" to loose 750 but again like I said no company, business what have you WANTS shrink to occur but they do realize its the world we live in and it happens, it sucks.

You can either keep it moving, focus on how to make that money back or lose even more. Thats the reality of the situation. OP probably could have taken the time spent on this thread making that money back already, IMO

Last edited by solefoodbk; 11-30-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

I can't bring myself to read this whole thing, but I'll just say, that ebay agreement you agree to, to sell on their site, states that if you bring legal action against them, you have to do it in their county, in California........so..........

Last edited by pokerpro; 11-30-2014 at 05:42 PM.
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

OP you said ""The phone was shipped directly by Apple.""

so you were just drop shipping ??

im only asking because i think it is against ebay rules. but i could be wrong! just trying to help =]

Last edited by tszyuenc; 11-30-2014 at 05:05 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by tszyuenc View Post
OP you said ""The phone was shipped directly by Apple.""

so you were just drop shipping ??

im only asking because i think it is against ebay rules. but i could be wrong! just trying to help =]
Every long term forum member I've seen advises against drop shipping. The reason being is its ALWAYS best to have the product in your possession to prevent issues like this. Regardless of the supplier its ALWAYS best to have your products in your control, for obvious reasons
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

I technically drop ship. I have warehouses across the country and abroad I have never set foot in and most likely never will, but I still have the manpower to keep control.
It works very well until a train wreck occurs lol Such as overselling.
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

I'd send the letters make them official to the Buyers, even though it's not,there fault, in the letter make it look like they will be sued and put in there proof the items were signed for, and put it on official looking letter head

Your best bet would be to scare the buyers just to pay you, because if you go after eBay you won't have enough money to last and win, the person with the most money usually will win out, and even if u win you lose

And if the buyers don't get scared and send payments make some stealths , very easy to get that money back from eBay without charging them head on
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmshark25 View Post
I'd send the letters make them official to the Buyers, even though it's not,there fault, in the letter make it look like they will be sued and put in there proof the items were signed for, and put it on official looking letter head

OP has blindsided himself with the concept of suing in a court of law, imo.


He should prepare letters asking for payment IF he checks his facts more carefully.

He says FedEx delivered the items & they were signed for. If this is so, then it may be that a crime has been committed IF the person who signed for the items is also the person claiming non-receipt. That needs investigation.
His past history on ebay is toxic to any law suit. Quite simply, his credibility will be laughed out of court.
He needs to change his tactics.

At the very least, he may recoup monies. If not, he has taken a positive business step to deal with the issue rather than the beat the head against the wall of a law suit with ebay as a co-defendant.

Our business plans must accomodate losses.

But how we get over those losses is how well our business lasts long term.
It is a matter of spending energies constructively.


Last edited by GreenBean; 11-30-2014 at 06:27 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

In my experience, The buyer did not even open a claim. It was auto prompted by ebay, but who knows without being the buyer.

A phone call explaining the situation to the buyer would be my only action. The buyer may not even realize they have the item and been refunded.
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  #39  
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee View Post
In my experience, The buyer did not even open a claim. It was auto prompted by ebay, but who knows without being the buyer.

A phone call explaining the situation to the buyer would be my only action. The buyer may not even realize they have the item and been refunded.
Yea what happened is when eBay shuts the Account down they kick you too while your down and they send emails out to all your buyers saying all the bids are cancelled

So now the buyer is thinking ok the transaction is cancelled I need my money back they may of went to message the seller and seen he was not registered and they opened a case

And in this situation it's automatic and the funds are given right back to the buyer no questions asked

So even though initially it's not the buyers fault, now that they have the phones they should pay the money

I didn't read everything so I'm not sure if the op reached out to the buyers yet and asked if they can resend the funds back

If he did first reach out and the buyers refused than Id go after them now, because in all reality you would never see a dime of that money from eBay unless they wanted you to have the funds , but suing eBay head on is a losing battle , they will wear u out until you have no money left

So you go after the buyers and send them or get a lawyer to send them an official letter and that may be enough to scare them and send your money back
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee View Post
I technically drop ship. I have warehouses across the country and abroad I have never set foot in and most likely never will, but I still have the manpower to keep control.
It works very well until a train wreck occurs lol Such as overselling.
As long as you know the quality
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  #41  
Old 12-01-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
As long as you know the quality
I own my places, just don't go to most of them, lol

Last edited by yankee; 12-01-2014 at 06:47 AM.
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee View Post
My attorneys starts at $350.00 an hour. A cheap attorney is $150.00 an hour. The amount of time it would take to meet with and attorney is hundreds of dollars an hour.

Maybe that is a different perspective.

Basically what happened is, YOU as a seller had an issue. Ebays policies made you have a significantly larger finical loss in negative energy, wasted time and attortneys fees.

It happens. Odds are the buyer will never contact you and the odds are you will never get the funds even if you have an attorney, but for sure it will cost you.

Also keep in mind, They already did pay for the item, they wanted the item, the item was deleivered etc.. In the court of law, This is pretty hard to beat.

What you are saying is that every time you get a chargeback and the buyer gets to keep the item and your fees, you are going to sue.

Unfortunelty it just does not work out that way 99% of the time.
It sucks.
My friend is an attorney kinda young but graduated from Columbia he is licensed in NY NJ and PA. I know a good amount of attorneys when it comes to jurisdiction(s) ...

Last edited by JamesNorth101; 12-01-2014 at 07:13 AM.
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

Quote:
Originally Posted by J dub 1984 View Post
My friend is an attorney kinda young but graduated from Columbia he is licensed in NY NJ and PA. I know a good amount of attorneys when it comes to jurisdiction(s) ...
With time comes experience...but always good to have the lawyer connection among others...doctor, dentist, etc
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2014
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Default Re: Going to Sue

We filed a case in Texas against a guy (age 19 at the time) who crashed into our yard and caused considerable damage. Because he was racing (and ticketed with "attempted contest of speed"), his insurance did not pay a dime. We had to get our insurance involved and we recovered some of the cost of the repairs. We filed in small claims court and the filing and service fee was $161.00. We won a judgment of over $9,200.00 (plus court costs) but because this guy can't hold a job and lives with his in-laws, we'll probably never receive any money and the judgment isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Good luck and keep us posted on how this turns out.
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