Buyer sending back empty box and getting refund

[Stealthyman]

Iv been reading that some people get a dispute then have the buyer keep the money and send back an empty box. What should you do as a seller? Beside maybe call the police? What do you do?

Don't ship with a return address. Make buyers ASK for one. Then when they ask, don't comply. Thus, no return tracking.

[gurusgrafx]

I had a buyer make a compliant on a hoodie I sold them. They sent back a package with a sweater they got from the goodwill and paypal gave them their money back. said I'd have to go get a police report before they would even consider helping me.

[GreenBean™]

^^^Soon as this happens I have a letter about the filed police report with copy to ebay/paypal noted....send that by email to the barsteward & wait. Has worked enough times to scare them into fixing the problem.

[gurusgrafx]

When it happened to me I really laughed about it. It was like a $30 transaction and the person went through all that to rip a little amount of money. I felt it was better to build their ego and let them pull it on someone for a real amount of money so they'd have a chance to see the inside of a police station.

[deeznuts]

I do most of my sales through online forums, and have had this happen to me at least 5 times already. The fact that my items target audience consists mostly of punk teens to twenty somethings, probably has something to do with it =/ I still haven't found a reliable way to combat it...I just take each lose as a cost of doing business online...same as ebay fees

[needhelpplease]

I have had this happen to me a few years ago (when I was a newbe to ebay). A buyer purchased a huge lot of baby clothing off of me for $395.67+, all baby gap/old navy. She got the package, NEVER contacted me, same day she got the package opened a paypal claim, never responded to any of my emails/paypal communication....returned my box as "return to sender" with BRICKS IN IT! Yes, bricks in it! with a little bit of newspaper....the weight was still 4 pounds LESS then it was when I shipped it. Gave that info to paypal and of course paypal did nothing about it and the heffer got to keep the clothing and got her money back. I still have the bricks to this day and I use them each summer to level out the polls on our pool,lol! I swore that I would get my $395 worth out of those bricks,lol!

[needhelpplease]

Originally Posted by deeznuts

I do most of my sales through online forums, and have had this happen to me at least 5 times already. The fact that my items target audience consists mostly of punk teens to twenty somethings, probably has something to do with it =/ I still haven't found a reliable way to combat it...I just take each lose as a cost of doing business online...same as ebay fees

What online forums do you sell on if I may ask?

[sleepyboyz]

I heard of many of it, but never had experiences with that. I never sell anythings to unverified PayPal or Zero feedback buyers.

[Stealthyman]

Interesting. It sounds like one should file a police report and hope for the best. And if the best doesn't happen just what deeznuts says. consider it part of the cost of doing business. I guess nothing else you can do.

[gurusgrafx]

^^^^^another thing to think about is how do you file a police report for a transaction from a stealth account?

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

Don't ship with a return address. Make buyers ASK for one. Then when they ask, don't comply. Thus, no return tracking.

I've seen PayPal give them my account's address and tell them they must ship there.

[gurusgrafx]

^^^^^^Thats what they did to me when the guy ripped me off.

[Jonas]

In my experience, even if the buyer returns the item, they will ship it so poorly that it comes back damaged, and paypal will end up giving them a full refund. Buyers only do this when they force a refund through paypal or wherever, not when they act honestly.

Legally defensible from your end, if you wanted to bother.

Suppose you are moving and plan to not update until the move is finished? PP mistake.

Suppose you have a summer home and a winter home. PP gives the address for wrong season? PP mistake.

Suppose you were evicted and have no new address. PP mistake.

I could go on, but I believe you get the idea.

Originally Posted by Jonas

I've seen PayPal give them my account's address and tell them they must ship there.

[needhelpplease]

Again, a few years back, I had a seller cash a walmart money order that I sent for $80, and the seller denied ever receiving it. When I called the 800 number it said that it was cashed that very day and when I spoke to a rep, they told me it was cashed at a grocery store. (the seller had many recent feedback stating that they took the money and ran)....well I did get the police involved at that time, and only because when I called the phone number and actually spoke with the person she laughed when I said that the money order had been cashed....she told me to "prove it"...well I did....to the police and the very next day I got a call from the Philly police dept. from a detective (I live 800+ miles away, the selller lived in Philly) asking me for all the details and name/address/phone number to the seller. Well that very day I got a paypal email that stated that "my items have been shipped using USPS priority mail", you know the one that you get whenever the seller makes the label through paypal. I got the stuff in 2 days! And remember, this was only over $80!!!! You can also contact the "Internet Crime Police", very serious business that way!

[NO ID]

^^^^Nice job there

[oompaloompa]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

Legally defensible from your end, if you wanted to bother.

Suppose you are moving and plan to not update until the move is finished? PP mistake.

Suppose you have a summer home and a winter home. PP gives the address for wrong season? PP mistake.

Suppose you were evicted and have no new address. PP mistake.

I could go on, but I believe you get the idea.

so vic is saying that if you dont give address, pp will give stealth address, they ship there and then you say you moved, and pp side with you? seriously? Wont tracking be enough for buyer to claim from you?

[Stealthyman]

if your getting a real package returned with the wrong address and shipping by ups, you can call them and change the address on route.....And .....Maybe do something similar with post office????

[oompaloompa]

oh ok, no way post office would do that here, you are lucky to even get an email back from them after 3 weeks! Royal mail are not like ups, they offer more of a Soviet dictatorship service..

[Penya]

Originally Posted by Jonas

I've seen PayPal give them my account's address and tell them they must ship there.

Happened to me and I lost 2 items this way

[sowhat]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

Legally defensible from your end, if you wanted to bother.

Suppose you are moving and plan to not update until the move is finished? PP mistake.

Suppose you have a summer home and a winter home. PP gives the address for wrong season? PP mistake.

Suppose you were evicted and have no new address. PP mistake.

I could go on, but I believe you get the idea.

Yes! Exactly!

[sowhat]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

so vic is saying that if you dont give address, pp will give stealth address, they ship there and then you say you moved, and pp side with you? seriously? Wont tracking be enough for buyer to claim from you?

You are half right.

There's a MAJOR component in the mix that is unknowingly helping the seller.

Not to mention, Paypal's own system of having the buyer return the item to the seller has TWO MAJOR FLAWS and they both work against the buyer!

A quick tip (and PP will voluntarily argue this point on behalf of a buyer but not for you):

Tracking numbers show that a package arrived at a destination. That tracking does not indicate that the package was received by a person or who that person may or may not have been.

An empty house where a neighbor was lying in wait? Maybe you were on vacation or receiving care at a medical facility. Any number of possibilities.

That is why I *ALWAYS* get SIGNATURE PROOF OF DELIVERY on any package with a value $50 or greater. I insure anything $99 and up, even if I have to pay for it out of my own pocket (I usually weasel it off on the buyer).

Take note of the terminology: Package Tracking vs SIGNATURE PROOF OF DELIVERY

The post office uses those terms exactly as the dictionary defines them. So, don't you forget it.

Don't sign for any package you didn't arrange to receive. If something shows up and the delivery person wants your autograph, tell them you aren't Tom Jones or Paris Hilton and you're just the pool boy or the substitute housekeeper. Sorry, come back some other day.

[sowhat]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

Tracking numbers show that a package arrived at a destination... Sorry, come back some other day.

And by the time they come back, you will already have your money back. All thanks to paypal

Not your fault the mailman is just "doing his job".