Seller Wins SNAD:Boastful Confessions of a true sleasebag

[johng1972]

Hey

I read this forum all of the time and wanted to share my most recent experience. I had a 6 year old account, no activity until 4 months ago. Sold approx. $45,000 through eBay and $28K went through Paypal. No Limitations, no ID requests etc...

Listed twenty items from China that could have been were antique repros. Didntsay they were new anddidnt call them antiques. Made the fatal mistake of saying 'Old' in my listing.

Anyway, what was worth $100-$150 sold for approx. $1300 each. One antique dealer bought all of them. Obviously when he received them he hit the roof. He paid via Paypal eCheque so no credit card chargeback facility.

He fired in a SNAD and I crapped myself. I originally offered to settle with him by returning 50% of his funds stating 'caveat emptor' at auction pal. He refused and rolled the dice.

Within 48 hours Paypal dismissed his claim. I have $9K in the account so I s'pose they didnt want to kick inthe extra $17K out of there buyer protection fund !

Within 12 hours after the claim was dismissed I received my first limitation, requesting POD's, ID etc.. etc... and eBay account was limited.

They probably looked and say that my other items were sold with people paying credit card and they are at risk of Chargebacks...

Doubt I will get the account unlimited and will probly have to wait 180 days for money.

Who cares was a very profitable experience ?

And as for the guy that bought my items ? High end antique dealer whocouldnt tell the difference between an item from China and one from 18th Century Europe....

Caveat Emptor

[jeffweico]

What eBay/PayPal does to sellers is not right, but this isn't right either.

20 items x $1300 = $26,000. By your estimate, on the HIGH end, the items were worth $150 each, for a total of $3,000.

So the buyer is out $23,000 at minimum.

I don't know what the laws in Australia are like, but if it were me, I would file a lawsuit. $23k is not a small amount of money - it is worth fighting for.

Stories like this only serve to justify eBay/PayPal's behavior.

[johng1972]

I love your righteous selling attitude. It is to be commended. However keep in mind the following

(a) Pictures on eBay were exactly of those items sent

(b) I didnt 'target' or 'market' this buyer. He bid of his own volition.

(c) If they were in fact 18th Century items and not nearly new, then there value would have beenmore like $8-10K each. Do you think they buyer would have contactedthe seller andsaid 'sorry old chap, you reallyundersold those items. Hre,let me throw you a few extra bucks'

(d) If he had bid at any auction house around the world he would have been in the same situation.

[pod]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

Stories like this only serve to justify eBay/PayPal's behavior.

I have to agree

"Caveat Emptor" - Give me a break, you ripped the guy off

"Who cares was a very profitable experience" - No wonder its so hard... don't kid yourself, that kind of money legal action will be taken. You should have maned up and let him return the items.

There are a few folks that think selling knock offs and telling a buyer who know it to go screw themselves is business as normal

ebay is not selling stuff out of the back of a van dude....

[anderson83]

Wow you're an ass and worst of all you bragging about it! I do sincerely hope that there is going to be legal action for the guys sake.

[jeffweico]

Hmmm...

I love your righteous selling attitude. It is to be commended. However keep in mind the following

I'm not trying to be Mister Morality here - just human. I am far from perfect. I've done things in my life I am not proud of. But I can feel for the buyer - a $23k loss HURTS!

(a) Pictures on eBay were exactly of those items sent

I'm sure that is the case, but reproductions can look very real close up and in person. There is only so much you can tell from a picture.

(b) I didnt 'target' or 'market' this buyer. He bid of his own volition.

Also true. But he was relying on your description. By you own admission, you did not state these were reproductions and in fact called them "old".

(c) If they were in fact 18th Century items and not nearly new, then there value would have beenmore like $8-10K each. Do you think they buyer would have contactedthe seller andsaid 'sorry old chap, you reallyundersold those items. Hre,let me throw you a few extra bucks'

No. I'm sure the buyer would not have done that. But I'm also sure that if they were the real thing, you would have listed them with a reserve.

(d) If he had bid at any auction house around the world he would have been in the same situation.

No reputable auction house would have sold reproductions without clearly stating they were reproductions. In fact, most of the larger auction houses will guarantee the authenticity of their items.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to pass judgment on you. All I'm saying is when stuff like this happens, it gives all sellers a bad name and makes it that much more difficult to make the case that eBay/PayPal are unfair to sellers.

[planes]

GIVE THE GUY HIS MONEY BACK!! It's your type of behavior which makes it tougher and tougher on all of us. Imagine if it were you and the empty stomach feeling you got when you received the merchandise.

But Paypal is worse than you!!! They should have found in favor of the buyer and instead get money to hold and invest for months.

Your both despicable.

[ptenchick]

Guys, relax... He is not the first and the last one here, on the forum... We've seen these "sellers" before

[needhelpplease]

Goodness gracious...are you not afraid of a lawsuit?? I have seen 2 cases on Judge Judy that were similar to something likes this and each resulted in the buyer winning. One was when tickle me elmo was extremely hard to find and went for a crazy amount of money on ebay and there were tons of sellers selling stickers, empty boxes etc. They even put that in there listings......this is a sticker........this is an empty box.....well the one lady who bid and won and empty box for over $100 took the seller to court and won! Again, the seller even stated that the box was empty in the listing. The other was for some type of cell phone (not into electronics so not sure what it was exactly) but the buyer paid like $400 for a MANUAL....again the listing stated it was just the manual, but the buyer won.....point being, 23K is a WHOLE lot of money, and I dont see how this buyer would even let this go. Save yourself the headache and try working something out with him to make him happy.

[slapped]

You know selling Replica DVD's, Hand bags, Shoes, ect,ect, is One thing, But selling replica Antiques and trying to pass them off as Originals is Another. AND, DO NOT INSULT the Intelligence of neither myself or any of the members Here. YOU DID pass them off as Originals, the Fact that you Auctioned them off and they reached those Price levels Clearly Signifys that MANY Buyers thought they were REAL or the Items Would Have NEVER reached those price Levels.

You Listed the items as Skillfully as Possible Doing Anything and Everything to Convey their Authencity to all of your Bidders and with Paypal Ruling in Your Favor you feel "Vindicated", Like you did something "Smart". Then you have the AUDACITY to come on this Forum and "Beat your Chest"

Well, I have to believe that the Buyer is not going to Simply accept Paypal's decision, No Sane person Would. I was Sued once over a USED 100% LEGIT Cell Phone in a Case where I also won the SNAD Paypal Dispute. At the end of the day EVERYONE Knows that Ebay and Paypal is loaded with "Trained Monkeys" making these types of decisions. You WILL Wind up in Court over this, and NOT Before Judge Judy (@ Needhelpplease, lol, that was "Clutch")--------GOOD LUCK

[needhelpplease]

Originally Posted by slapped

You WILL Wind up in Court over this, and NOT Before Judge Judy (@ Needhelpplease, lol, that was "Clutch")--------GOOD LUCK

Sorry about that,lol!!! Surely didnt know something similar happened to you, just wanted to point out that this was a crazy thing to do let alone brag about it!

[slapped]

Originally Posted by needhelpplease

Sorry about that,lol!!! Surely didnt know something similar happened to you, just wanted to point out that this was a crazy thing to do let alone brag about it!

To set the record straight NOTHING Similar EVER happened to me I NEVER tried to Rip someone off---I Sold a Used Sidekick II Cell phone, got Positive feedback and after More that a MONTH Passed got a Complaint that the Phone did not work. Told him Basically, Im sorry, but too Bad, should have Not left positive feedback, and tell me about the problem sooner. He Filed Paypal dispute, He Lost. Then He Filed in Small Claims Court, I Later Found out he was in Law school, so i guess he looked at this Case as "Training" In Court the Judge Dismissed the case, citing N.Y.'s "Buyer be Aware" Law.

This happened about 5-6 years ago.

COMPLETELY Different from the thread Starter Here.

Do Not worry, I am Not offended or Upset, I just took this Opportunity to Clarify.
I Would NEVER try to Swindle someone out the type Money Posted By the thread starter

@needhelpplease I thought the Judge judy Reference was Hilarious----

[needhelpplease]

Originally Posted by slapped

To set the record straight NOTHING Similar EVER happened to me I NEVER tried to Rip someone off---I Sold a Used Sidekick II Cell phone, got Positive feedback and after More that a MONTH Passed got a Complaint that the Phone did not work. Told him Basically, Im sorry, but too Bad, should have Not left positive feedback, and tell me about the problem sooner. He Filed Paypal dispute, He Lost. Then He Filed in Small Claims Court, I Later Found out he was in Law school, so i guess he looked at this Case as "Training" In Court the Judge Dismissed the case, citing N.Y.'s "Buyer be Aware" Law.

This happened about 5-6 years ago.

COMPLETELY Different from the thread Starter Here.

Do Not worry, I am Not offended or Upset, I just took this Opportunity to Clarify.
I Would NEVER try to Swindle someone out the type Money Posted By the thread starter

@needhelpplease I thought the Judge judy Reference was Hilarious----

I didnt even think that the two sellers on Judge Judy did anything wrong either! I mean in their listing they stated that.....this is an empty box.....this is a sticker....I could have sworn that the sellers would have won, and in my opinion they should have considering they did state it in their auction and I would NEVER bid in the 100s for something I didnt even read. In those cases it is my opinion that it is the buyers fault....but the point was that even when you state that ''this is this'' you can still lose in ''real life''....that was my point to the OP....and in his case he didnt state one way or the other in his auction so he should be REALLY worried......love you slapped!!

[topseller]

You are scum. I don't have many rules, but I try not to rip of hard working individuals. Large greedy evil corporations, yes. Little guy trying to make an a living, no.

[jeffweico]

Slapped did nothing wrong. I don't think that even the DUMBEST person who viewed his auction, much less a law school student, could reasonably assume that he was going to provide a lifetime warranty on the cell phone.

Unless an auction listsing SPECIFICALLY STATES that a warranty is included, then the only thing the buyer should expect is that the item is not DOA - Dead on Arrival. Any reasonable person whould know that, especially when buying USED electronics.

But that nonsense of using creative wording to sell a PICTURE of an expensive item for a lot of money won't work. Every state has, on their books, a law called the Deceptive Business Practices Act. Some states call it something else, but they all have one. The purpose of these laws is to make it difficult for smart people to get away from legally using their creativity to defraud consumers and businesses. The laws were enacted in response to fraud in the direct mail industry.

Regardless of how an ad is worded, if a judge finds that the average person would have reasonably believed the auction is for a real cell phone, then the transaction would be null and void. So, if someone puts up let's say 3 pictures of an IPhone, then lists the features, throws in some testimonials, then at the bottom, puts in a statement like "this auction is for the photo only" it just won't fly, at least not in court.

Autodesk even lost such a case, where it claimed their "shrink-wrap licensing agreement" clearly stated that the buyer was LEASING the software, and did not own it. Their argument was that it was not legal for an end user to re-sell their software when they were done with it. The judge ruled that a reasonable person would have assumed they were BUYING that particular copy of the software and could thus re-sell it later when they were done with it.

This is also not new. Whoever was on Judge Judy was probably like the 10,000th scammer to try it. These types of ads were around back when eBay was called AuctionWeb.

[slapped]

Just to add for the record, The Cell Phone I sold was in 100%, WORKING Order, and in My Ebay Listing, I Made NO Offer of a Warranty, And I Specifically took Pictures of a Few Cosmetic Imperfections, and Stated Every Scratch the Phone Had on, and showed those scratches in Pictures. I am Quite sure that the Buyer Accidently Broke the phone and tried to get me to Pay for another Phone.

This is Way Different from the ThreadStarter, He Set out to Rip The Buyers off from the Get Go

[GreenBean]

Guys, we're giving the OP too much attention. The new title says it all about his story.

PEACE and MUNGBEANS

[johng1972]

This is a gem

You know selling Replica DVD's, Hand bags, Shoes, ect,ect, is One thing, But selling replica Antiques and trying to pass them off as Originals is Another.

Really, how is it different ? A replica, is a copy, a reproduction. Do you state in your listings 'reproduction, illegal copy ?' Of course not. Please dont be pretend to be anything other than a con man.

This one is even better

I Would NEVER try to Swindle someone out the type Money Posted By the thread starter

But gee boss, I wouldn't try and swindle someone out of a small amount of money because that is okay. Small and large amounts are relative to ones wealth. And how would you possible know your buyers financial situation.

And finally


I don't have many rules, but I try not to rip of hard working individuals. Large greedy evil corporations, yes. Little guy trying to make an a living, no

So yes you are happy to admit you are a thief, cheat, criminal, swindler and con man but only to large corporation. Not the the little guy. You may not be overly educated but have you ever worked out all of those large companies you are happy to rob are owned by the little guy through his 501K's ? Less profits, less dividends and lower share prices ?

Please, I very much respect some of the criticism I received on this board from certain members. In fact, and I have no reason to say this as I do not have a standing on this forum and the username Johng1972 has no value attached to it, I have made a second offer to the buyer (original post was offered 50%) to settle this matter which would require me to return a greater than 60% received. (And no, there is and was no legal action. Fair Trading in NSW limits all sellers at auction from liability unless the item in question is a breach of copyright)

However, for the large empty vessels that banged about making noise and pontificating your hypocrisy is more than obvious.

[pod]

Whatever dude. Justify it all you want, doesn't matter. This guy will take legal action without doubt. You really think an antique dealer will allow himself to be scammed for 26k in ⊗⊗⊗⊗ antiques? Dream on

[needhelpplease]

[QUOTE}
Small and large amounts are relative to ones wealth. And how would you possible know your buyers financial situation.
[/QUOTE]

No....small/large amounts relative to ones wealth????......NO....depends on how severe the punishment will be....grand theft?????....perhaps...reality is you might not get sued over $60 argument but thousands and thousands.....probably a sure bet. Surely this guy is angry enough that he will do something.......sticking it to ebay/paypal is different because they stick it to honest people....what did this guy do to you?...he was an honest buyer looking for an honest deal and got crooked by a theif....YOU! And I dont sell replicas or whatever you want to call it....I am a small seller/buyer and I am telling you you are wrong! Can anyone end this thread?!?!?!?!

[TGMT²]

Originally Posted by needhelpplease

! Can anyone end this thread?!?!?!?!

I see no reason to close this thread? It is not spam, and it is not someone trying to learn how to defraud customers or any other guideline worthy of moderation.

This is a thread about about someone who has already defrauded someone in their own despicable way which has generated some interesting Forum participation.

[jeffweico]

Nobody will ever convince this guy that he did anything wrong. He desperately wants to keep the $23k, so he has justified what he did in his own mind. Logic and reason will not convince him otherwise.

The only thing that MAY give him a clue is when he gets served with a summons once the buyer files a lawsuit. Going by what he originally posted, I cannot image ANY court in ANY country ruling in his favor.