Biden won the presidnecy.

[yankee]

Originally Posted by mike75493245

if there is only 1 witness ready to testify that is already proof as far as the law is concerned. so far we see no investigations on the local level , this means this whole problem will be leaving the local jurisdiction shortly and will be decided elsewhere

Your knowledge about this process is impressive. It has happened two times in American History and may happen again.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

I expect we do VS some US states. I know we pay less than others though, sometimes considerably less.

I am going to hazard a guess that your not that familiar with the UK tax system which is why you feel that way.

A lot of it comes down to which state your comparing against and and what the assumed income of the person paying tax is, as well as how the income is derived. If for example its a person that owes 10 houses and the income is taken as dividends then UK tax can be as low as mid 20% but again there are a huge number of factors to account for which makes it very hard to compare sometimes.

lol it's funny that people always break stats down to states, when it's things that help their case . I like to break things down to states too, because I feel it's only fair. Such as the majority of US states being safer over all than the majority of Europe. But most people don't like to discuss states. They always judge America as a whole. Some states are run almost like entirely different countries. Take NY for example, with their draconian gun laws, insane taxes, and 15% of all covid deaths.

[yotano211]

Originally Posted by james13v

don't bother with dominion. There are far more concrete things that can be shown, before anything about that ever comes out. Then again, democrats were complaining about dominion for years lol. Until Biden won, and it's the most secure election in modern history....

But again, these people completely ignored almost all the points I brought up about how cockeyed the results are, so I highly doubt they'd be even remotely open minded to any of the links you send about dominion.

I support all the recounts that Trump can get but even the FBI have said that this election is the most secure election in US history.
And every past recounts that have been made in the past, it only showed wrong or tampered votes in the hundreds at most.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by yotano211

average taxes on GDP, but its from 2018.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...nternationally

That's really interesting to reach over thanks for that.

I do wonder if it takes into account that in the UK (and a lot of other countries in the EU) health insurance is taken as part of our income tax whereas in the US its something that is paid on a voluntary basis.

From the chart it looks like were the US really wins out is the low taxes on goods and services V the UK in which we have quite high VAT levels.

Makes for a great side by side comparison though.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by james13v

lol it's funny that people always break stats down to states, when it's things that help their case . I like to break things down to states too, because I feel it's only fair. Such as the majority of US states being safer over all than the majority of Europe. But most people don't like to discuss states. They always judge America as a whole. Some states are run almost like entirely different countries. Take NY for example, with their draconian gun laws, insane taxes, and 15% of all covid deaths.

Yep doing it on a state level makes a lot more sense really than a national level given how large the country is.

I expect there will be a lot of states safer than some of the countries in Europe itself. It will be a little different when you compare it the EU though which offers more of a like for like comparison with the similar GDP and population levels. There are after all 300 million people that are in Europe but not in the EU most of which are from the countries that are statistically a lot unsafe than those within the EU and really skew the numbers. So when comparing I would always do US v EU not US V Europe.

How does one judge 'safe' though? I have no idea really what it would involve!

[yotano211]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

Yep doing it on a state level makes a lot more sense really than a national level given how large the country is.

I expect there will be a lot of states safer than some of the countries in Europe itself. It will be a little different when you compare it the EU though which offers more of a like for like comparison with the similar GDP and population levels. There are after all 300 million people that are in Europe but not in the EU most of which are from the countries that are statistically a lot unsafe than those within the EU and really skew the numbers. So when comparing I would always do US v EU not US V Europe.

How does one judge 'safe' though? I have no idea really what it would involve!

Its hard to "judge" feeling safe. For some people feeling safe is living in Texas with relaxed gun laws but there are still shootings, other types of being safe is living in Japan where there is only a handful of gun deaths in the entire country per year.

I rather feel safe out in the ocean on a 32-foot sailboat. Too bad I cant carry a gun on international waters. I can still carry a harpoon gun, but I dont think a pirate with a AK will be scared against a harpoon gun for fishing.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by yotano211

Its hard to "judge" feeling safe. For some people feeling safe is living in Texas with relaxed gun laws but there are still shootings, other types of being safe is living in Japan where there is only a handful of gun deaths in the entire country per year.

I rather feel safe out in the ocean on a 32-foot sailboat. Too bad I cant carry a gun on international waters. I can still carry a harpoon gun, but I dont think a pirate with a AK will be scared against a harpoon gun for fishing.

I think a lot of it is to do with cultural upbringing. Personally I would rather live somewhere that had a lot less gun deaths and I wasn’t able to own a gun than the vice versa but that is just a personal feeling of safety. I’m sure it’s the reverse for a lot of America’s.

I don’t know the statistics for knife related deaths in the UK but I expect since we have such low gun deaths of 0.26 per 100,000 we wouldn’t compare so well to countries that have high gun related deaths when it comes to the knife death related statistics.

[yankee]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

Personally I would rather live somewhere that had a lot less gun deaths and I wasn’t able to own a gun than the vice versa but that is just a personal feeling of safety. I’m sure it’s the reverse for a lot of America’s.

The most interesting thing is that most gun violence in America is inner city where it is very hard to legally own a gun. In rural America where average household has several, gun violence is extremely low.

[yotano211]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

I think a lot of it is to do with cultural upbringing. Personally I would rather live somewhere that had a lot less gun deaths and I wasn’t able to own a gun than the vice versa but that is just a personal feeling of safety. I’m sure it’s the reverse for a lot of America’s.

I don’t know the statistics for knife related deaths in the UK but I expect since we have such low gun deaths of 0.26 per 100,000 we wouldn’t compare so well to countries that have high gun related deaths when it comes to the knife death related statistics.

Canada is what you're asking for.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by yotano211

I support all the recounts that Trump can get but even the FBI have said that this election is the most secure election in US history.
And every past recounts that have been made in the past, it only showed wrong or tampered votes in the hundreds at most.

Yes, every past recount has shown hundreds at most. This one? This one, without any signature verification, and with republicans not be allowed to watch, ALREADY found 3000 votes , in 3 counties alone, EACH. That just disappeared. Vast majority were for Trump. Someone forgot a flash drive. Not once, not twice, but three times, in three different places, all within the same general area. That we know of. That alone should tell you that this is not like any other election, and that the FBI is full of ****. All the problems being found, some how are only against trump? Funny how that works. Kinda like bank errors almost never help the bank customer.

There are examples where democrat counties opened ballots and then contacted democrat voters to fix their ballots, while republicans in the same state didn't. Thats yet many more THOUSANDS of illegal ballots. If you guys watched any of the hearings, you'd see just how many thousands of ballots were wrong, tampered with, illegal, or improper. Even Obama before his election, was concerned about mail in ballots. But the second they get a chance to get rid of trump, all the times they complained about, go out the window huh?

We don't want recounts of the same fraudulent. We want audits. Signature verification. We want all 3 parties to be present, physically. All we need is for the 4 cities that Biden CRUSHED Clinton in, while losing to her in every single other city. We just want to see the votes that came in in the middle of the night, after Trump was CLEARLY winning. We want to throw out the votes that came in after election, that the state legislature already said was illegal. We want these cities to only count the votes that were following the rules set up. That's all. Is that really so much to ask for?

[james13v]

Originally Posted by yankee

The most interesting thing is that most gun violence in America is inner city where it is very hard to legally own a gun. In rural America where average household has several, gun violence is extremely low.

Notice where none of the riots and looting has ever happened? Last time they tried to go into a rural town, they literally got driven out with guns and bats.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

I think a lot of it is to do with cultural upbringing. Personally I would rather live somewhere that had a lot less gun deaths and I wasn’t able to own a gun than the vice versa but that is just a personal feeling of safety. I’m sure it’s the reverse for a lot of America’s.

I don’t know the statistics for knife related deaths in the UK but I expect since we have such low gun deaths of 0.26 per 100,000 we wouldn’t compare so well to countries that have high gun related deaths when it comes to the knife death related statistics.

You're fairly open minded, so I think you might actually read this...


The thing about UK tho. You guys have WAY more home invasions while people are home. Because you guys are all unarmed, and people have gone to jail for defending themselves in their own homes.

100,000,000 home in america have guns. If America was actually dangerous when it comes to guns, don't you think we'd know about it? Tho if you look up stats, it's almost impossible to find good information. Most websites conflate gun murder with gun homicides. Many others conflate suicides with gun violence. They will conflate children deaths, with those that are 18 and 19.


There are about 12,000 gun homicides per year. Of those 12,000 gun deaths per year, 700 are accidental. Think about that number. 100,000,000 gun owners, 400,000,000 guns, 350,000,000 people, and only 700 accidental deaths.

You know, I was trying to find the accurate break down of the gun homicides, but I can't. They don't want you to see it. The main results will show all the anti gun websites, and they don't want you to know that the MAJORITY of gun deaths are LEGAL homicides. Criminals dying in self defense. When you really break down the numbers, an innocent person dying by gun, in America, is exceptionally rare. And if you break it down by location, you'll see that the VAST MAJORITY of this country has lower gun homicide rates than the UK, or most of the EU for that matter.

Next up comes mass shootings that America is known for. Yet, France, belgium, norway, Fidnland, Czech, all have higher mass shooting death rates than America. But America, being America and huge, and not broken down by state, has a lot of mass shooting deaths, so we are viewed as the mass shooting country. Which is BULL****

And last but not least. Guns in America used in self defense, which per the OBAMA ordered CDC research, shows guns are used to prevent crimes 500,000 times a year minimum. Compare that to a few thousand murders in a country of 350mil, most of which are gang on gang. So unless you are a criminal, or hang around criminals, your chances of even seeing a gun used illegally, are almost non existent. I'd wager to say that your average NON CRIMINAL is less likely to be killed by a gun in America, than in the UK. In my state, one in TEN legally carry guns on them. I have never even met someone that has been shot, let alone killed by a gun. I've never had a gun pointed at me ( that wasn't by a cop. Multiple times...), and I'm in the gun culture.

And your chances of dying in a mass shooting, are the same as being hit by lightning. A student is multiple times more likely to die on the way TO school, just driving, than dying in a mass shooting. Anti gun people in this country, have their priorities mixed up.



Thanks for reading .

[JamesNorth101]

I’m off to do a little bit of research having read that because I expect your point about home invasions is probably quite inaccurate. I have never known anyone in the UK have a home invasion. Few feee to link any sources that you have for for it though.

Having read the latest statistics on gun homicides the number is at the moment closer to 14,500 per year. There is no data for breaking that down further into whether it was what you would call a legal gun homicide or not.

RE mass shorting - I will also have to research that some more in order to reply

RE the likely hood of being killed by a gun in the US v the UK here is an extract. It’s referencing gun related deaths the UK at the start. ‘The result has been roughly 50 to 60 gun deaths a year in England and Wales, which have a population of 56 million. Compare that to the US, a country about six times as large that has more than 160 times as many gun-related homicides’.

So if we then take the 160 and divided by 6 we are left with 26.6 times more likely to be victim of a gun related death in the US v the UK. Again that doesn’t take into account what you would call a legal gun related death. In order for your assatation to be correct with regards to someone being more likely to be illegally killed by a gun in the UK versus the US 25 out of every 26 gone related deaths in the US would need to be legal.

I will research the other points a little bit more but from an initial research I do think that you are perhaps seeing some of the results in a biased way which is understandable. At the end of the day for me on a personal level it boils down to whether I would rather live in a country where everyone has access to guns or where no one has access to guns and which one I would feel safer in and for me personally I would rather live somewhere that had 50 deaths per gun per year in a population of 56,000,000 and it was very hard to get hold of one.

If you try to remove personal bias which would you on a personal level feel safer? A country where everybody potentially might have a gun and were ownership is sitting at approximately one gun per person or a country in which there is virtually no gun ownership? There is no wrong answer to that question it’s purely hypothetical question of whether you would feel safer knowing that everyone has a gun but you can also have a gun or in which virtually nobody has a gun

[james13v]

There are a few problems to address. and I'll have to get to them later. The UK stats don't count the same way as the US. For example, you don't count homicides until the person is caught and convicted. We do. So right off the bat, it's not a fair comparison. Same with infant mortality, where we count every single death, including premature and still born, while you guys don't even count if the baby dies within the first few days, . Same with education, where we count every single child's scores, while you guys start weeding kids out early on, and directing them away from higher education, and towards mentorships and other such things. So it's really hard to compare countries without digging REALLY deep into it.


But again, just to reiterate my main point about gun deaths. The people dying by guns, aren't people like you. Or like me. They are on the whole criminals, with relatively few innocents. And a good amount of those innocents are clustered in specific cities, almost all of which BAN GUNS. if the UK had a legal right to defend themselves, you'd have a higher homocide rate as well, of people killing criminals. So like we discussed before, is it really fair to compare the entirety of the US, to the UK? You have many states to choose from, where you'll be far safer ( not just feelings) than in the UK as a whole. And even in the dangerous states, you can pick many cities that are again, some of the safest in the world. If you get rid of just a handful of US cities, out of the 20,000, America because statistically one of the safest countries in the world. Just as everyone blames trump for covid deaths, while so many of them come from select states and or cities, where trump has almost zero control. Because unlike the UK, we have states rights, and the states are essentially like countries in the EU.

As far as your hypothetical. I'd feel much safer where everyone LEGALLY has a gun, than a country that is completely disarmed. Period. My family has been persecuted too much, by the people, and by the governments, to ever allow ourselves to be disarmed. And guns are the great equalizer. The 120LB 80 year old woman is now on the same level as the 300lb thug. And that's the point. In America, THE MOST law abiding group of people in this country, are those with permits to carry guns. They commit less crimes than even police officers. As as mentioned, guns are used in DEFENSE half a million times a year, and the estimates go as high as 3,000,000. And that's almost all without a shot fired. So imagine how many victims there would be if all those innocent people were disarmed? America is a different kinda country. We have more rights to be free. We aren't an Island. We border multiple countries, and we have literally the most immigration of any other country.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

I’m off to do a little bit of research having read that because I expect your point about home invasions is probably quite inaccurate. I have never known anyone in the UK have a home invasion. Few feee to link any sources that you have for for it though.

While burglaries are down, you guys still have almost half a million per year. I don't know anyone in America that has had a home invasion Either. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. By the numbers, you guys have a violent burglary once every 30 minutes. According to official figures, you've got a one in 50 chance of being a victim of a burglary.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/

America has roughly 2+ million a year. So per capita, you are a little better than us. But then you have to get into the numbers , and MAJORITY (64%) of your home invasions are when someone is home. And it's been increasing year after year. While in America, that number is 27%. Literally half.

https://www.propertyreporter.co.uk/p...e-at-home.html

[JamesNorth101]

I guess again it’s a cultural thing that I can’t quite get my head around why you would feel safer with everyone having a gun V no-one having a gun.

America is a different kinda country. We have more rights to be free.

I would say that is a very subjective statement in which you link having gun ownership to being free. Again it’s very cultural. If I grew up my entire life in the states I would probably feel very the similar and vice versa if you grew up in the UK or indeed other countries you would probably also struggle with the concept of how people having more guns equals you feeling so far.

At the end of the day nearly all countries on the planet have massive limitations on personal freedom both the UK and America are no different. What one person sees at free is really again very subjective argument that is hard to quantify on an objective level because freedom to one person is not freedom to another. Without wanting to ruffle feathers saying that America has more freedom is very much a subjective point of view. There are for example things that we are free to do in the UK and in Europe than you would be free to do in America and vice versa. Calling either Europe or America the freest part of the world though is quite in accurate after all there are a lot of countries which have very limited government in which people can do virtually what they want without repercussions and to some people that would be true freedom.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by james13v

While burglaries are down, you guys still have almost half a million per year. I don't know anyone in America that has had a home invasion Either. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. By the numbers, you guys have a violent burglary once every 30 minutes. According to official figures, you've got a one in 50 chance of being a victim of a burglary.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-and-wales/

America has roughly 2+ million a year. So per capita, you are a little better than us. But then you have to get into the numbers , and MAJORITY (64%) of your home invasions are when someone is home. And it's been increasing year after year. While in America, that number is 27%. Literally half.

https://www.propertyreporter.co.uk/p...e-at-home.html

That makes for quite interesting reading I suppose when the term home invasion is used automatically I link that to the homeowners experiencing some sort of first hand violence as opposed to sleeping through it. It would be quite interesting to see if there was a further breakdown in the statistics and then to find a definition of what exactly are home invasion is.

The point that you make about 500,000 crimes being prevented I absolutely understand I expect part of them would have been prevented still if there were no guns involved and the homeowner for example simply had a baseball bat but it’s impossible to know. It would come down to whether it was the gun that the prevented the incident or whether it was the confrontation itself. None of that takes away from one of the clear benefits of gun ownership though which is crime prevention but is the prevention of those crimes worth the trade off. Again that’s totally subjective

[yankee]

Some statistics show that more guns were sold in the USA this year than all previous measured years combined. Other studies show that it is more than the past decade. I personally have bought several with several more since November 3rd and I quadrupled my inventory since February. This week has all been about self sufficiency. On my Facebook groups, I have several thousand people doing the same.

Fundamentally, USA is not the same as it once was. We have close to 100 million people well documented that feel the "Deep State" is showing its head more than ever before. My guess it is closer to 160,000,000 Americans feel this way.

Right or wrong, it is a sentiment that many Americans have. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. You have cities that hundreds of thousands of people are fleeing from and moving to more rural America. You have states such as Idaho that have more than doubled in population in the past decade from people leaving primarily California, Washington and Oregon and New England. You have Wyoming where less than 40% of its population was born there.

One can look at the election map of the USA(same with Canada) and can easily come to a conclusion that we have Cities verses the rest of America. Land mass wise, the USA has never been more red.

[JamesNorth101]

Just out of question why does owning more guns make you feel more safe? Surely one or two with a lot of ammunition would do the same job at the end of the day you only have two hands. I ask that purely from a personal curiosity point of view.

Regarding landmass that absolutely is the same in the UK as well we happen to have a Conservative government at the moment but even when we have a Labour government which is similar to your democratic government in parts the landmass is still predominantly Conservative. It’s nice to see on a map but the reason for it is that people who live in rural areas quite often tend to be Conservative voters but they have a much much less dense population in the area V a city. Again it’s very good to look at but doesn’t really equate to anything in the real world because of the lack of population in those areas

[yankee]

I will get back to your question of feeling safe at a later time BUT for me... It has nothing to do with the Looting, riots, etc.... I'm not overly patriotic and could easily leave the USA altogether. I dislike ALL government over reach, not just the democratic party. Personally am never going to war or shooting looters(unless they somehow came to my doorstep in very rural America)

A quick comparison, I bought a 17 WSM for small game hunting at long distances. I bought a couple small gauge single shot shotguns, I bought a few semi auto shotguns for waterfowl and upland game. I purchased two identical 6.5 prc and enough brass and primers to reload ammo to last my two person family several lifetimes of big game hunting. I have a few ARs all setup for predator hunting and one for home defense.

I bought a 8" revolver today for bear defense along with hunting if I ever chose or needed to use it for that.

They are tools for my uses in my lifestyle. Not for shooting bad guys or politicians.

[JamesNorth101]

That makes a lot of sense in that case. And again from a personal curiosity point of view if you are not a massive fan of the USA are there any countries that you look at and you feel would suit your beliefs better?

[yankee]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

That makes a lot of sense in that case. And again from a personal curiosity point of view if you are not a massive fan of the USA are there any countries that you look at and you feel would suit your beliefs better?

Unfortunately..... No, not any more. Covid exposed governments powerful reach in places I have considered.

It appears that America still is the best place on earth for me right now.

Two places I would have considered were Australia and New Zealand but the progressive movement is stronger and faster than in the USA.

In 2004-2008 I considered Canada where I had two outdoors businesses(One in Quebec and one on Ontario) but that is completely out of the question now.

Keep in mind, I am edging on Homesteading and my passion is bow hunting. If we eliminated hunting/homesteading, Belize, Honduras, Panama, but in all reality, USA controls those places.

We are spending much of 2022 in Alaska where we could live the lifestyle we desire without hardly any government interference in the foreseeable future. Of course it has its downsides. Normally we spend the winter on the gulf coast so those downsides would be OK. I can imagine wintering on a remote island while residing in AK.