VERO Image Copyright Takedowns - Account At Risk?

[DigiDollaz]

I have a seasoned account (~1 year old) all legit, validated info/SSN - 75+ transactions, all metrics good with 100% positive feedback.

I’m currently doing retail drop shipping – my supplier is online & has a nationwide retail store chain.

I do not simply copy and paste descriptions – I use ChatGPT to completely remake the items’ description + bullet points. My item title is never the exact same as on my supplier’s website.

The only mistake I’ve made (rookie mistake I’ll admit) is using stock images directly from their website and adding clip art like “Hot Item” “Free Shipping” etc.

I’ve received a total of 2 policy violations ever on the account – both VERO Image Copyright Takedowns. First violation was 11/2/2022, most recent one was 5/3/2023. Each takedown included multiple listings at a time.

From what I can tell it just looks like a slap on the wrist from eBay and a warning - here are some excerpts from the emails I received:

(Using ABC123 so I don’t actually name my supplier)


“Hello XXXXXXX

We had to remove your listing because it didn’t follow our VeRO Unauthorized Listing Policy. Copying pictures, text, logos or other copyrighted materials without the rights owner’s permission, is not allowed

What activity didn't follow the policy
Your listing was reported for using the rights owner's copyrighted images without authorization. When listing this product, please do not copy photos from websites, catalogs or other sources and only use photos you have taken or get explicit written authorization from the rights owner to use their text on eBay.


What you need to do next
You should always create your own content for use in your listing. If you use content from another source, you need to have their permission to use their content before creating a listing.


What is the policy
- Your listing was reported by ABC123, Inc. dba ABC123 for using their copyrighted images without their permission. eBay’s Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program offers intellectual property rights owner(s) a way to report listings that they believe infringe on their rights
- Using a copyright owner's logos without permission is not allowed
- If you believe a mistake has been made, you will need to contact the rights owner directly. If the rights owner approves your appeal, please have them contact us directly to reinstate your listing(s)


You can send an email to: ABC123.ipr@bp.corsearch.com
ABC123 USA, Inc. is the title holder of the ABC123 products.We may be contacted at ABC123.ipr@bp.corsearch.comTruthfully,Corsearch Brand Protection on behalf of ABC123 USA, Inc.


Clearly my supplier is using this third-party company to comb through eBay & different sites.

How serious is this policy violation? Is the account at risk or not?

Should I stop selling their products altogether? or just take my own photos?

In the meantime, I’ve physically gone into their retail stores and been taking pictures on my phone.

I’ve noticed many of the sellers who also use this supplier have completely changed their images to customer review images or simply an image of the item in its original box.

Is this sustainable long-term, or should I diversify and start using a different supplier?

Am I at risk of being sued for anything related to trademark/copyright?

Thanks in advance!

[degsey69]

These VERO violations are serious but not enough to get your account suspended, if you stop using those images, you have sensibly taken original images on your cell phone. If you were going to get sued you would have received a cease and desist letter from an attorney, then if you had persisted to continue then using the images then you would have been sued.

[agent006140]

why should your dropshipper ABC12345 complain you are using their pictures ??
Do they know you are their customer?

[DigiDollaz]

Originally Posted by degsey69

These VERO violations are serious but not enough to get your account suspended, if you stop using those images, you have sensibly taken original images on your cell phone. If you were going to get sued you would have received a cease and desist letter from an attorney, then if you had persisted to continue then using the images then you would have been sued.

Right I have completely switched all my listing pictures from stock to my own photos taken in-store.

Have I essentially VERO-proofed my listings?

They cannot claim any copyright as I do not use either their text nor images any longer.

I have received no such letter - I assume it would be too much trouble on their end to pursue a smaller seller like myself?

[DigiDollaz]

Originally Posted by agent006140

why should your dropshipper ABC12345 complain you are using their pictures ??
Do they know you are their customer?

They do not know I am their customer - they only see me as a seller of their items.

My eBay username is a professional brand name, it looks more like I am a company vs an individual seller on the platform.

For clarification I've only received VERO violations when I was solely using stock photos.

Now that I've relisted my items with brand new photos taken from my phone, no issues thus far.

[csproo]

My friend has been sued for copyright infringement and eBay has suspended all of his accounts (he had about 10 accounts). My advice is to stay away from these types of items as soon as possible, or you will face a lawsuit in the near future.
To clarify, the exclusive agents of the brand will collect a list of all sellers who sell their exclusive products on eBay, file a complaint with eBay, and eBay will temporarily suspend payouts to your account and may suspend it.

[rsot]

take your own photos OP if you continue to sell that product - that offense is pretty hard on the account health

[DigiDollaz]

Originally Posted by csproo

My friend has been sued for copyright infringement and eBay has suspended all of his accounts (he had about 10 accounts). My advice is to stay away from these types of items as soon as possible, or you will face a lawsuit in the near future.
To clarify, the exclusive agents of the brand will collect a list of all sellers who sell their exclusive products on eBay, file a complaint with eBay, and eBay will temporarily suspend payouts to your account and may suspend it.

Interesting.

Did your friend receive multiple warnings and/or VERO violations before being sued?

Was your friend using any copyrighted material; pictures, logos, or text?

Did your friend receive a Cease & Desist letter before getting sued?

Also, do you know what specific type of complaint the brand filed with eBay? Was it the typical "Notice of Claimed Infringement" VERO complaint or something more serious?

[DigiDollaz]

Stole this from another thread, a member on the forums signed up with VERO to see firsthand what information is required to submit a valid VERO complaint. According to the document, you must provide a "Reason Code". Here is an excerpt from the form:

"Addendum to Notice of Claimed Infringement
List of Allegedly Infringing Listings, Items, or Materials
A Note on Reason Codes: When identifying item numbers please use the reasons below. When
removing items from the site, eBay will inform sellers of the specific reason for the removal of
their items. We believe providing sellers with this information benefits all parties.
Select the most appropriate reason. Please associate each item you report with only one reason
code.

Reason Codes
(Note that the numbers may not be sequential everywhere. This is not a mistake, but simply
reflects that some reason codes are not legally applicable in all countries.)
Trademark – Item infringement
1.1. Trademark owner doesn’t make this type of product
1.2. Item(s) is an unlawful replica of a product made by the trademark owner
1.3. Item(s) is an unlawful importation of product bearing trademark
Trademark – listing content infringement
2.1. Listing(s) contains unlawful comparison to trademark owner’s brand name
2.2. Listing(s) contains unlawful use of trademark owner’s logo
Copyright – item infringement
3.1. Software offered for sale in violation of a license
3.2. Item(s) is a bootleg recording of live performance
3.3. Item(s) is an unlawful copy of media (software, games, movies, etc.)
3.4. Item(s) is unlawful duplication of printed material
3.5. Item(s) is an unlawful copy of other copyrighted work (paintings, sculptures, etc.)
Copyright – listing content infringement
4.1. Listing(s) uses unauthorized copy of copyrighted text
4.2. Listing(s) uses unauthorized copy of copyrighted image
4.3. Listing(s) uses unauthorized copy of copyrighted image and text
Other infringement
5.1. Item(s) infringes a valid patent (requires patent registration number)
5.3. Item(s) violates a celebrity’s right of publicity
5.4. Listing(s) content violates a celebrity’s right of publicity
Reason Code __________________________________________________ ___________________
Work(s) infringed:________________________________________ _________________________
Item Number(s): __________________________________________________ _________________"



Additionally - this is from Cornell Law's website in regards to Copyright Infringement:


"Generally, an infringement refers to the act of unlawful copying of material under intellectual property law. It is an act that interferes with the right of intellectual property ownership.

In a copyright infringement matter, the plaintiff would need to establish:

-Valid copyright ownership
-The copying of elements of the original copyrighted work"


[B][I]"...the copying of *elements* of the original copyrighted work"


So the VERO brand...
1) Has to provide a valid Reason Code to eBay for a VERO takedown
2) In court, must establish that the Defendant copied some type of "element" of the copyrighted material


Since I am not using any element of the copyrighted material at all, it appears they cannot pin a Reason Code to my listings, nor would they have a case in court if they could not prove that a copyrighted element was used.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - this is the conclusion I am leaning towards.

[degsey69]

Accounts will only get limited or suspended after a number of VERO warnings, the first warning is a smack on the wrist as they say you probably unaware that you had done it, Second offence is usually 3 day restricted account which means can not list any new listings and search exposure is limited, this follows with a number longer restrictions if you keep committing VERO offenses until suspension, whilst the account is restricted payments are made.

[buffhobbit]

Originally Posted by DigiDollaz

Stole this from another thread, a member on the forums signed up with VERO to see firsthand what information is required to submit a valid VERO complaint. According to the document, you must provide a "Reason Code". Here is an excerpt from the form:

...

Since I am not using any element of the copyrighted material at all, it appears they cannot pin a Reason Code to my listings, nor would they have a case in court if they could not prove that a copyrighted element was used.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - this is the conclusion I am leaning towards.

Unfortunately, manufacturers and their agents file VERO complaints with eBay using reason codes that aren't valid. eBay processes them regardless. I think they're required to by law actually. eBay could go after some of these manufacturers and their agents for filing false claims, but doesn't. Amazon just started doing this against some false IP complaints. There are some manufacturers that just don't like unauthorized sellers selling their products despite the first sale doctrine, and do whatever they can to squash them. You also have the opportunity to sue them if you didn't copy text or images and they falsely claimed copyright, especially if you're actually banned from eBay, but 99.9%+ of people would need an attorney to make that work which is going to cost a lot.

Ultimately, many sellers who get a VERO complaint on a product where they didn't copy text or images just choose to no longer list that manufacturer, not being worth risking the account.

[DigiDollaz]

Originally Posted by buffhobbit

Unfortunately, manufacturers and their agents file VERO complaints with eBay using reason codes that aren't valid. eBay processes them regardless. I think they're required to by law actually. eBay could go after some of these manufacturers and their agents for filing false claims, but doesn't. Amazon just started doing this against some false IP complaints. There are some manufacturers that just don't like unauthorized sellers selling their products despite the first sale doctrine, and do whatever they can to squash them. You also have the opportunity to sue them if you didn't copy text or images and they falsely claimed copyright, especially if you're actually banned from eBay, but 99.9%+ of people would need an attorney to make that work which is going to cost a lot.

Ultimately, many sellers who get a VERO complaint on a product where they didn't copy text or images just choose to no longer list that manufacturer, not being worth risking the account.

Oh wow. Very helpful information - thanks for the reply.

Silly question — But would quoting The First Sale Doctrine (17 U.S.C. § 109) in the description of my listings have any deterrent effect on the agents trying to VERO takedown my listings? It could be seen as putting them on notice as the listing is displayed publicly & would create a paper trail. I'm sure they'd probably just steamroll me though.

Also do these agents keep a watchlist of sellers who they find selling their products? And if I simply change my eBay username would this help me avoid detection at all? Not sure if the agents comb through eBay themselves or just employ some kind of AI bot to search the marketplace.

[solefoodbk]

For it to become an issue you would need to have those copyright strikes hit your account in closer succession. For example if you got another strike in a week, you might get a 24 hour limit where you can still fully operate your shop, just can't list new items. It's all about the time in between the strikes. With that said, I am not sure how much these affect an account if you're under a periodic review.

It's best to avoid it if you can, the problem won't go away it'll likely only get worse if you don't. I had a company coming after me for about 1 year, 2018-2019 timeframe. It got so bad they ended up reporting ended listings that still caused me strikes. You don't want to be on a companies radar and piss them off. You're at the mercy of them when selling online, eBay will only take down a listing if they receive a compliant, doesn't matter validity behind it. Get enough of those, the bots will flag you automatically.

[SaiJin]

Originally Posted by DigiDollaz

Right I have completely switched all my listing pictures from stock to my own photos taken in-store.

Have I essentially VERO-proofed my listings?

They cannot claim any copyright as I do not use either their text nor images any longer.

I have received no such letter - I assume it would be too much trouble on their end to pursue a smaller seller like myself?

So there's no such thing as VERO proof.

If the owners don't want you to sell their stuff for whatever reason, they have the right to report you.

Other than that I think you're trying to do the right things and that's great!

[DigiDollaz]

This has been very insightful, thanks to all for your replies!

Clearly it's too risky to continue selling from my current supplier so I will find a new non-VERO supplier to list going forward.

I must not be shortsighted or tempted by quick money — the long-game is all that matters!