Received email from brand "owner"

[e2free]

Originally Posted by mrowcp

My question is: if you and me selling the same item and I want to be the only seller of this item, I will send you the same letter. What are you going to do?!? Will you remove the item just like that without any proof of ownership? As @al2000 has already said, most of the brand owners (biggest most of the time), do not contact sellers directly.

I will check the trademark data base and see if he or someone really own that trademark, if he does simply remove item, in most cases they are registered.
The thing other memtioned about very big companies like Apple Samsung etc they don't have that much time to send you wanting first
On new account one trademark violation mean account gone

[mrowcp]

Originally Posted by e2free

I will check the trademark data base and see if he or someone really own that trademark, if he does simply remove item, in most cases they are registered.

Where you will check, could you please give any example? In http://tmsearch.uspto.gov there is no owner name, contact info and etc. Only information about the brand.

How you will connect a guy nickname from amazon private message to the trademark?

[dachilla]

While you are correct with distinguishing Copyright from Trademark, a logo is still a piece of art and thus copyright laws apply to it even without it being registered as a trademark.

Copyright does not require filing to sue, Trademark does.

So if you can prove that you are the creator of the logo (e.g. by using it for a while), the trademark registration by another person of that specific logo can easily be faught.

I agree with you, that one should of course register the trademark if one is serious about it. I have registered 4 Trademarks in Europe and in the US and it cost me quite some money. Which sucks, but it's the only way to get rid of copycats like OP.

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Sure, but can you PROVE IT?

Not legally....copyright applies to artistic works (film, music, etc). Trademark applies to brands, logos, words, etc.

Trademark has to be FILED and APPLIED for. Copyright is automatic, but to sue requires filing.

Since COPYRIGHT doesn't apply to brands, logos, etc, if they haven't filed for a trademark, there's no legal recourse for the "brand owner".

At least that's my understanding of the law.

People who have real brands always file for trademarks. Because if your brand is legitimate, a little paperwork and a few hundred bucks is nothing.

Joe Blow buying his "custom" logos from AliExpress isn't a real brand....he's just Joe Blow on Amazon and he has no legal recourse on his "brand".

[rsot]

Originally Posted by mrowcp

Where you will check, could you please give any example? In http://tmsearch.uspto.gov there is no owner name, contact info and etc. Only information about the brand.

How you will connect a guy nickname from amazon private message to the trademark?

What do you mean?

[dachilla]

Originally Posted by mrowcp

Where you will check, could you please give any example? In http://tmsearch.uspto.gov there is no owner name, contact info and etc. Only information about the brand.

How you will connect a guy nickname from amazon private message to the trademark?

The fact that you can find an entry there probably means that the trademark is registered by someone. Since registering one isn't rocket science, it can very well be the guy who wrote to you.

There are very limited options on AMZ to contact a seller. Try for yourself to contact another seller on AMZ and you'll see what I mean. The only way is to have a buyer account and use AMZs contact form. If he has registered a Trademark he'll have a document that shows so. However he can't upload it, because the only way to contact you is the AMZ contact form, which doesn't allow file uploads.

He could contact AMZ about the infringement, but to do so he needs to make a test buy from you. Without that they won't just remove your items you listed. If it's a proven copyright / TM violation and your account isn't very old you can kiss it goodbye. Otherwise you'll receive a warning.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Originally Posted by jakobrockz

Could I file for a copyright immediately and would that be enough to kick other sellers off my listings?

I believe approval for such applications takes months typically.

[dachilla]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

I believe approval for such applications takes months typically.

The registration process for a trademark takes between 6 and 12 month. During the application process "the other sellers" have the possibility to dispute the trademark registration.

After the registration and the publication in the gazette the trademark can be disputed for a period of 1 Month (US) or 3 Month (EU).

There are several reasons why a trademark can successfully be disputed in this period.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Anyone who has any actual LEGITIMATE business would have already applied for the trademark.

It's not like they send out nationwide emails to every potentially interested party saying, "HEY, YOU WANT TO DISPUTE THIS?"

Yes, they COULD check and they COULD dispute it, but odds are, if it were a legitimate property of theirs, they'd already have filed for their OWN trademark. The fact that they haven't means they're either not a legit business, or too naive to file for it. Either way, like I said, you're not going to catch any REAL business slipping up on this stuff. Joe Blow on Amazon who thinks he's a real "Brand" because he bought a logo on Fiverr and then sent it to a manufacturer in China to put his crappy logo on some generic Chinese gadget is NOT a real company and does NOT have a real brand. He's just using some cheap logo some other guy made (which probably was borrowed assets from some other previous artistic work, lets be honest) and threw it on an already existing product, adding a made up company/brand name.

Legitimate companies don't do that. They create unique stuff or at least innovate on existing products, further, they have an established brand OR they apply for trademark to ESTABLISH the brand.

Joe Blow on Amazon is NOT a business. He's not a real brand. Again, we're assuming this is someone who hasn't applied for a trademark and who's product is generic (as in searching for it can easily turn up dozens of identical products on Aliexpress).

This guy is NOBODY. Anyone can file for the trademark (if he hasn't) and take the "brand" right out from under him. But as stated, it can take over a year, by which point, there will be dozens of exact copycats already and further, there's really 0 value in this made up brand, only the listing page......so why bother?

[mrowcp]

Unfortunately, the Amazon customer support does not think so... :(
I have just received an email saying Joe Blow must retrieve his complain or there is no second options. Amazon do not care that Joe Blow is putting his name/logo in the front of the item title (not even over article box) and pretended to be the brand owner.

[dachilla]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

A[/B]He's just using some cheap logo some other guy made (which probably was borrowed assets from some other previous artistic work, lets be honest) and threw it on an already existing product, adding a made up company/brand name.

Legitimate companies don't do that. They create unique stuff or at least innovate on existing products, further, they have an established brand OR they apply for trademark to ESTABLISH the brand.

Joe Blow on Amazon is NOT a business. He's not a real brand. Again, we're assuming this is someone who hasn't applied for a trademark and who's product is generic (as in searching for it can easily turn up dozens of identical products on Aliexpress).

This guy is NOBODY.

I do understand your wishful thinking.

However a brand isn't a brand because it's not established yet.

Also not all brands have unique or generic products, some just have a different logo.

The Logo quality shouldn't play a role either.

I don't think that H&M isn't a brand because they produce in Bangladesh, have a crappy logo and their products are far from being generic.

Also as we have figured in this concrete case the Trademark seems to be registered already. So he's now John Blow with a Trademark and OP is not.

[GhostOfAmazon]

Nice straw man.

My point was that if you don't have a trademark, you don't have a brand. Period.

H&M has several trademarks. They probably have patents too.

You aren't a brand if you don't have any kind of establishment or trademark, legally speaking. I can't just invent "GhostOfAmazon" Universal TV Remotes and throw the name on some generic Alliexpress junk and start telling everyone it's MY product and they can't copy it, LOL!

I mean, I could, but it would hold the same weight as a nuclear threat from Uganda.

We're talking about the law, specifically, US law, and that's the way it works.

Maybe things are different in Thailand.

[dachilla]

They can sell the same product but not with the logo that the guy added, because the logo is his copyright. You can sell the product without his logo ofc.

However then it's not the exact same looking product and a new ASIN has to be created, you can't just list it under the same asin as the one with logo. That's all I'm saying here.

[GhostOfAmazon]

As far as Amazon rules go, yeah, that's true, if the account creator is selling under the ASIN and hes made a BS logo and pretends it's his he can kick people off the ASIN he created if he gets a stupid Amazon employee, you're correct.

I'm simply saying legally speaking he has no ownership over the "brand". And if John Smith was to trademark Joe Blows "brand" in this instance, Joe Blow would lose.

[dachilla]

If you haven't created the logo for yourself or let someone create it for you and that someone transferred the exclusive rights to you, you are, legally speaking, still violating a third persons copyright if you just take their logo and use it or try to register it as a trademark.

You can take the other ones "brand" name if that's not registered tho. But not the logo design.

I know this is pretty abstract and in reality you'd just grab the logo too and say you made it yourself.

I am guessing we are talking about pretty much the same here, just from different points of view.

[e2free]

It does not matter who created the logo or asin
Whoever owns the trademark Amazon will listen to him,
Rightholder report=listing removed

[GhostOfAmazon]

That's really what I'm talking about, what e2free says.

Maybe, POSSIBLY, you MIGHT have some "legal" ownership of the logo, but even so, you'd have to file to sue for it, and without filing, your legal rights mean squat. Also, at the end of the day, someones FAR more likely to screw with your Amazon account than sue you, which is what the thread is about.

Bottom line: If you file for a trademark and get it, you win ANY dispute regarding the Amazon ASIN it relates to, period, no matter who created it, no matter what on anything else.

[dachilla]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Bottom line: If you file for a trademark and get it, you win ANY dispute regarding the Amazon ASIN it relates to, period, no matter who created it, no matter what on anything else.

I'd never doubt that.