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Received email from brand "owner"
 

Yesterday I have received a message via amazon from a guy who pretended to be a represent of the brand.Item is a small box/case made in china and it's not a big world brand. If you search in alibaba, you'll find dozen of manufacturers who made this kind of case.

Here is the e-mail:

I've reply with a request for documents that showing ownership of the brand and if docs are approved by real brand owner (via email confirmation) I will remove my items for this ASIN. The answer from the guy was:

My questions are:
1) Are all brands under monitoring (even a small one) in amazon?
2) Is my account endangered if it turns out that this guy is really the representative of the brand. Will amazon remove only this item or it will have global consequences?

P.S. Until this day I was the only seller offer this item. Now there is a new seller from China, offering it too on lower price (of course).

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

If they registered the trademark yes they can report to AZ and they will remove you

Don't take this likely you will loose your account

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

But if it's a generic item, how can there be a brand?

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Than the biggest question here is: how to be sure that this is not a scam? Everyone can contact me via amazon and write this kind of message.
What you will do if you receive this message tomorrow?

P.S. It's a small brand that do not require aprovement (to submit invoices to amazon) before you start selling it.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

well search for the trademark of that brand, specially the country you listed on, does not make any difference if its well known brand or small brand if he got trademark this can be removed within minutes from AZ

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

If you really want to be a dick to the guy, if you find out it's NOT registered trademark, file for your OWN trademark, and once approved, email Amazon and have HIS account restricted!

Probably not worth the hassle or investment, but I'm someone who HATES scammers, so sometimes I go the extra mile. ;)

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Yessssss!!!

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

I already checked and the brand is not registered for UK/EU. I also considered this move, but this spiritual orgasm will cost me extra 440 GBP for UK and 1400GBP for EU and UK :)

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Whew! That's a load of cash.

Then again, it's a tax right off---and depending on how much profit you make on it, it COULD be worthwhile----keep in mind, you also destroy ANY competitors on this ASIN.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

UK TM cost £170 and eu I believe 900

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

It's pretty easy for a brand owner to check weather there is someone else offering their items on AMZ. You can see it in Sellercentral if you created the asin who else is selling your stuff and for what price.

Even without a trademark registration the brand owner has the intellectual property of his brand (copyright) and you can't just copy it. Also if you become creative and think you'll just register his brand, he can fight your registration and will most likely be able to prove that he has been using the brand way longer than you. Then the money was spent for nothing. If you also register the Logo artwork of the brand you'll be in even more trouble.

They contact you via amazon because there is no other option to do so, if your email isn't shown in the imprint.

Try finding something unbranded. Especially small brand owners hate it when you sell their stuff for low.

Cheers

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Rightfully so!

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Not sure that's how it works.....

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/diffe...mark-3218.html

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Keep in mind that most people on this site are US Amazon sellers and sell on the US (.com) Amazon site, so how things work in Thailand won't apply to 99% of the forum.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Also I just looked up Bulgaria law and their copyright/trademark stuff works pretty much the same as USA.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

That is correct, but as a lawyer, who has studied intellectual property laws in Europe, I can guarantee you that if you steal the artwork of another person (in this case the brand logo) and register it a trademark you do violate the intellectual property of the creator of the logo by doing so. In the US and anywhere else.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Sure, but can you PROVE IT?

Not legally....copyright applies to artistic works (film, music, etc). Trademark applies to brands, logos, words, etc.

Trademark has to be FILED and APPLIED for. Copyright is automatic, but to sue requires filing.

Since COPYRIGHT doesn't apply to brands, logos, etc, if they haven't filed for a trademark, there's no legal recourse for the "brand owner".

At least that's my understanding of the law.

People who have real brands always file for trademarks. Because if your brand is legitimate, a little paperwork and a few hundred bucks is nothing.

Joe Blow buying his "custom" logos from AliExpress isn't a real brand....he's just Joe Blow on Amazon and he has no legal recourse on his "brand".

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Dont worry real brand doesnt try to connent you through amazon.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

A few days later, amazon contact me:

So what Dzun Brum do: he create a new listing with his brand name at the beginning of the item description. Example: "Dzun-Brum Item For sale and Description Here". At the moment this item is selling from 5 different sellers and everyone do the same: "Seller-one Item BRAND For sale and Description Here", "Seller-two Item BRAND For sale and Description Here","Seller-three Item BRAND For sale and Description Here". This BRAND have official site and facebook web page so...none of them the right owner. I've sent a report to amazon about that and now I'm waiting to see what will happen.
Meanwhile amazon block my account because I was registered as Individual, but in the seller-verification-enquiry email (received 1 day before brand owner email) I'm telling that I resell a new items. So amazon want from me to update my profile as a business (must register with HMRC and obtain a tax number (UTR) from them and submit my info to Amazon. ) Amazon UK forum is full with topics like this one.
What a mess for just two days :(

P.S. Quote from amazon UK forum:

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

What is your question ?

If your item is removed then it's your fault I advised you many times to not ignore this message :mad2:

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

My question is: if you and me selling the same item and I want to be the only seller of this item, I will send you the same letter. What are you going to do?!? Will you remove the item just like that without any proof of ownership? As @al2000 has already said, most of the brand owners (biggest most of the time), do not contact sellers directly.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Could I file for a copyright immediately and would that be enough to kick other sellers off my listings?

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

I will check the trademark data base and see if he or someone really own that trademark, if he does simply remove item, in most cases they are registered.
The thing other memtioned about very big companies like Apple Samsung etc they don't have that much time to send you wanting first
On new account one trademark violation mean account gone

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Where you will check, could you please give any example? In http://tmsearch.uspto.gov there is no owner name, contact info and etc. Only information about the brand.

How you will connect a guy nickname from amazon private message to the trademark?

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

While you are correct with distinguishing Copyright from Trademark, a logo is still a piece of art and thus copyright laws apply to it even without it being registered as a trademark.

Copyright does not require filing to sue, Trademark does.

So if you can prove that you are the creator of the logo (e.g. by using it for a while), the trademark registration by another person of that specific logo can easily be faught.

I agree with you, that one should of course register the trademark if one is serious about it. I have registered 4 Trademarks in Europe and in the US and it cost me quite some money. Which sucks, but it's the only way to get rid of copycats like OP.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

What do you mean?

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

The fact that you can find an entry there probably means that the trademark is registered by someone. Since registering one isn't rocket science, it can very well be the guy who wrote to you.

There are very limited options on AMZ to contact a seller. Try for yourself to contact another seller on AMZ and you'll see what I mean. The only way is to have a buyer account and use AMZs contact form. If he has registered a Trademark he'll have a document that shows so. However he can't upload it, because the only way to contact you is the AMZ contact form, which doesn't allow file uploads.

He could contact AMZ about the infringement, but to do so he needs to make a test buy from you. Without that they won't just remove your items you listed. If it's a proven copyright / TM violation and your account isn't very old you can kiss it goodbye. Otherwise you'll receive a warning.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

I believe approval for such applications takes months typically.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

The registration process for a trademark takes between 6 and 12 month. During the application process "the other sellers" have the possibility to dispute the trademark registration.

After the registration and the publication in the gazette the trademark can be disputed for a period of 1 Month (US) or 3 Month (EU).

There are several reasons why a trademark can successfully be disputed in this period.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Anyone who has any actual LEGITIMATE business would have already applied for the trademark.

It's not like they send out nationwide emails to every potentially interested party saying, "HEY, YOU WANT TO DISPUTE THIS?"

Yes, they COULD check and they COULD dispute it, but odds are, if it were a legitimate property of theirs, they'd already have filed for their OWN trademark. The fact that they haven't means they're either not a legit business, or too naive to file for it. Either way, like I said, you're not going to catch any REAL business slipping up on this stuff. Joe Blow on Amazon who thinks he's a real "Brand" because he bought a logo on Fiverr and then sent it to a manufacturer in China to put his crappy logo on some generic Chinese gadget is NOT a real company and does NOT have a real brand. He's just using some cheap logo some other guy made (which probably was borrowed assets from some other previous artistic work, lets be honest) and threw it on an already existing product, adding a made up company/brand name.

Legitimate companies don't do that. They create unique stuff or at least innovate on existing products, further, they have an established brand OR they apply for trademark to ESTABLISH the brand.

Joe Blow on Amazon is NOT a business. He's not a real brand. Again, we're assuming this is someone who hasn't applied for a trademark and who's product is generic (as in searching for it can easily turn up dozens of identical products on Aliexpress).

This guy is NOBODY. Anyone can file for the trademark (if he hasn't) and take the "brand" right out from under him. But as stated, it can take over a year, by which point, there will be dozens of exact copycats already and further, there's really 0 value in this made up brand, only the listing page......so why bother?

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Unfortunately, the Amazon customer support does not think so... :(
I have just received an email saying Joe Blow must retrieve his complain or there is no second options. Amazon do not care that Joe Blow is putting his name/logo in the front of the item title (not even over article box) and pretended to be the brand owner.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

I do understand your wishful thinking.

However a brand isn't a brand because it's not established yet.

Also not all brands have unique or generic products, some just have a different logo.

The Logo quality shouldn't play a role either.

I don't think that H&M isn't a brand because they produce in Bangladesh, have a crappy logo and their products are far from being generic.

Also as we have figured in this concrete case the Trademark seems to be registered already. So he's now John Blow with a Trademark and OP is not.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

Nice straw man.

My point was that if you don't have a trademark, you don't have a brand. Period.

H&M has several trademarks. They probably have patents too.

You aren't a brand if you don't have any kind of establishment or trademark, legally speaking. I can't just invent "GhostOfAmazon" Universal TV Remotes and throw the name on some generic Alliexpress junk and start telling everyone it's MY product and they can't copy it, LOL!

I mean, I could, but it would hold the same weight as a nuclear threat from Uganda.

We're talking about the law, specifically, US law, and that's the way it works.

Maybe things are different in Thailand.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

They can sell the same product but not with the logo that the guy added, because the logo is his copyright. You can sell the product without his logo ofc.

However then it's not the exact same looking product and a new ASIN has to be created, you can't just list it under the same asin as the one with logo. That's all I'm saying here.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

As far as Amazon rules go, yeah, that's true, if the account creator is selling under the ASIN and hes made a BS logo and pretends it's his he can kick people off the ASIN he created if he gets a stupid Amazon employee, you're correct.

I'm simply saying legally speaking he has no ownership over the "brand". And if John Smith was to trademark Joe Blows "brand" in this instance, Joe Blow would lose.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

If you haven't created the logo for yourself or let someone create it for you and that someone transferred the exclusive rights to you, you are, legally speaking, still violating a third persons copyright if you just take their logo and use it or try to register it as a trademark.

You can take the other ones "brand" name if that's not registered tho. But not the logo design.

I know this is pretty abstract and in reality you'd just grab the logo too and say you made it yourself. :)

I am guessing we are talking about pretty much the same here, just from different points of view.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

It does not matter who created the logo or asin
Whoever owns the trademark Amazon will listen to him,
Rightholder report=listing removed

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

That's really what I'm talking about, what e2free says.

Maybe, POSSIBLY, you MIGHT have some "legal" ownership of the logo, but even so, you'd have to file to sue for it, and without filing, your legal rights mean squat. Also, at the end of the day, someones FAR more likely to screw with your Amazon account than sue you, which is what the thread is about.

Bottom line: If you file for a trademark and get it, you win ANY dispute regarding the Amazon ASIN it relates to, period, no matter who created it, no matter what on anything else.

Re: Received email from brand "owner"
 

I'd never doubt that. :bounce: