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VAT for stealth accounts
 

If you go over the VAT limit (85k in the UK) across your stealth accounts what records need to be kept?

I'm assuming it's not as simple as adding up your domestic orders (inc. shipping fee) and giving the taxman 20%?
Will they want to know what is being sold and where?

Obviously you can't give Amazon your vat number without the stealth account being compromised. Are you legally bound to give Amazon business customers an invoice with your vat number on though?

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

How are your stealth accounts legally linked? Surely they are in different names so each 'owner' has their own VAT allowance?

Or to put it another way, how are you linked to the seller accounts? Is it just via bank accounts? Are they business accounts?

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Could be multiple ways as well

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

I know, that's what I asked.

Why do you always feel the need to repeat someone elses question?

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

No need to ask why - no need to inquire or be confrontational on a relaxed Sunday :bounce:

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Just via bank accounts. The Stealth accounts all pay in to different accounts in my name.

Different 'owner' is fine for fooling Amazon ...but it would not work with HMRC who will look at your total domestic sales regardless of where or how you made them.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

As I asked above, are they business accounts?

If so you must have provided Amazon with some form of business registration for each account.

If they're private seller accounts then you will have to convert them once you make a certain level of sales, not a particularly high level of sales either. What then?

VAT and stealth simply do not mix. It will get messy.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

if the level of sales is so high that VAT registration will be needed this means the accounts are already registered as business. amazon do ask to convert to business very quickly

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

That's what I thought but thought I'd give them the benefit of doubt incase they have 20 low flying private accounts. :)

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

stealth VAT is impossible to do domestically but you can certainly do it on EU amazon sites , local tax authorities do not care about whether it is stealth , they are glad there is a foreigner selling there and paying taxes

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Pretty much sums it up

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

What happens to VAT in the UK with a forgien owned account?

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

it is really easy to register for tax as a foreigner , it takes more time than for a local but every country is gonna allow you to do that. you just use a tax representative in the country who would handle the paperwork so they would essentially be the contact for the tax authority , this way you can get VAT registration for example

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Yes, these Amazon accounts are all sole trader accounts with Stealth details.

Quite easy to jump from individual seller to sole trader from memory. Just the UTR really.

I agree with messy. One of my bank accounts is a 'basic' one. Aimed at people who had trouble opening a normal one. The attraction being (for me) it was easy to open.
Money built up over time and the bank rang up asking questions. What I was selling? Why so much in a basic account? Have I thought about a business account?
Part of their due diligence/know your customer responsibility.

Anything unusual and they are obliged to file a suspicious activity report.

That in turn could lead to HMRC wanting to see your books, so the vat will need to be accounted for if you go over 85k and they have reason to check you out.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Unfortunately 99% of my sales are in the UK. Thought about moving to Europe (perhaps a low income tax country) but Amazon customers want things quickly.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Stealth UTR's too I assume, so are you paying income tax?

How do you plan on legitimately registering for VAT if you're income is from fraudulent sources?

IMO you're way past messy, I wouldn't want HMRC knowingly looking at me in any capacity whatsoever.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

If you are Stealth account you are eventually Stealth UTR. That would surely be the norm for 90% of UK ppl here. It's an integral part of Amazon ghost. You pay income tax as normal on your earnings.

HMRC don't care how you make your income as long as you pay your correct tax. I have my own UTR number but don't share it with Amazon (accounts would get linked).This is basic stuff. Do you only use private individual selling accounts?

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

you are able to register for VAT in your own name in the UK but not tell amazon the VAT number

in this case you still pay taxes but make sure you stay below VAT threshold on each amazon account so that amazon do not ask you to provide VAT number

amazon are only obliged to demand VAT from foreign sellers , with domestic sellers they are not unless the threshold has been exceeded

with EU VAT you are able to register a stealth number , this is not an issue at all

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

We all know how to play the stealth game, just pointing out that its messy and completely incorrect to naively say 'HMRC don't care how you make your income as long as you pay your correct tax'. What you're doing is fraud, and if you get caught you're in a heap of trouble.

If you don't believe me run your business model past a Chartered Accountant and watch his reaction.

Anyway, if you don't get caught then happy days. Just saying that forewarned is forearmed.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Well, we are pretty much all in the same boat here (you included). Anyone who has used Stealth is committing fraud if they use creative documents for ID or address confirmation. Fraud by false representation.

Run this by anyone and they will disapprove...let alone a chartered accountant.

The real risk is when you are doing it to avoid tax or to rip people off. That's when they come after you.

I have been on accountancy message boards and the consensus is that HMRC are not interested in how you are making money....just that you pay the right tax. A client had broke the law (reselling tickets)and asked whether he should still declare this profit. It was an unequivocal 'yes' with confirmation that HMRC do not routinely share information with police / trading standards etc...

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Yes, it's a shame to cut sales on an Amazon account to keep under vat level. It all works on momentum with listings getting more popular over time.
Leave an account or listing dormant for a good while and it's like starting from scratch. Very slow sales when you make them active again.

Re: VAT for stealth accounts
 

Yeah its very costly to get a listings ranking up again. If it can even be done as often it gets left behind due to competitors raking up reviews.