Forum

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Here are my 5 cents. You can use some service like Wirex by using a stealth account, and preform all bitcoin operations at even more lower rates, and the plastic card allows to get cash at any time without meeting any people.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

There will not be any, imho.

UK and Australia have strict regulations government wise as well as their own internal bank rules. Reversals are not guaranteed unless a long check list is fully ticked off.
:en:

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Ebayorbust does not want to have rabies shots though,Elmo. They hurt.

Don't weaken an argument you are already losing with wise cracks.

Stay dignified.

:uk: ::cheer: :uk:

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Hey Everyone, after reading a few comments on this thread I had to weigh in and let you all know that ALL UK faster payments (which is the most preferred and instant transaction) can be easily revered in case of a fraud. Chaps payment however do not get reversed once sent out and it is not the most commonly used way to send money.

You may ask how I know this well I have been selling bitcoins on LBC for over 3 years and have the biggest profile in the UK. Fraud and AML are the main reasons why we ask for an ID. Infact now we go as far as asking for source of funds and even do skype video chat to determine if the buyer is genuine or not. SO for those who think UK transfers cannot be reversed you clearly don't know what you are on about.

This is my profile and where you can message me to verify my authenticity etc. Feel free to send some of your clients over too if you want them to buy bitcoins lol.

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/fatguyslim

I have 3 people who work for me too so if I am not online my following team members will help you out

https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...tguyslim.gary/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.david/
https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/p...guyslim.logan/

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Thank for educating the less informed.

If anyone is interested in purchasing Bitcoin via UK bank transfer, I can vouch for him, if his reputation isn't enough for you.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

While further input is always welcome it may be worth reading all the posts. Its already been said a few times that in the case of fraud it can sometimes be reversed. Not always though as I am sure you are aware.

Its also not a 15 minute automatic process as implied. It takes days and weeks and even in the case of fraud a lot of the time it will not be reversed. How do I know? Because I have had a family member who was defrauded for £800 via bank transfer and no matter what we did it could not be reversed. A few of the other posters on the thread have very similar experiences. Banks have also put out statements saying that bank transfers cannot automatically be reversed (links being in the thread)

Its only in the case of unauthorized transfers that reversal % is high as mentioned earlier in the thread. In this day and age with the need for banking fobs before any transfer is made with a lot of banks unauthorized transfers claims are low.

You cannot just phone your bank and say 'I paid someone £100 for something and they didn't deliver it' and the bank will reverse the transfer. That is just not how it works. Its a very long process during which the recipient of the funds will be contacted. Even at the end of the investigation there is 0 guarantee that the funds will be returned even in the case of fraud

To claim, like it was earlier, that its very easy to automatically get a bank transferred reversed within 15 minutes is codswallop

Now if someone can provide proof other than 'trust me I know these things' that a bank transfer can be easily reversed (such as a statement from a well know money advise website, a news paper or a statement from a bank) that would be really interesting to read and would be very informative

On a side note, the main point of the thread was how to 'cash out bitcoin anonymously' for what ever reason someone may need to do that. I would suggest that bank transfer is not an option if you want to cash out anonymously due to the lack of anonymity when cashing out this way making the entire thing a bit moot really

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

You got too much free time mate. Just let it go lol.

UK bank transfers can be reversed, be cautious if you accept Bank transfers etc.

For the doubters in my thread requesting proof, you now have it.

Moving on....

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

You know you don't need to quote people when its the message above right? RE having too much free time. 1 - I try to do my part to help keep the forum running as smoothly as possible so I am on here quite a lot and 2 - I am not the one up at 4am replying to forum posts :thumb: Its midday here in the UK

What has been agreed on is in some very very rare cases some bank transfers can sometimes be reversed under very exceptional circumstances and even then its rare. I still have not seen any actual hard evidence for it from a credible source but common sense dictates that it should be possible under the right circumstances. Never in the time frame you had suggested and its not just automatic. Its also worth noting that if you want to cash out BitCoin anonymously then bank transfer is a none starter.

Great to have that all settled. Any other methods always welcome

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Says the man that believed it would cost me 20% more to receive a BTC payment from him due to Brexit. ;)

Suggest you get off your high horse before you fall off.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I was just trying to save you money lol.

Y'all need to stop being so salty.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

And that's the funny bit. You still don't fully understand that what you were going on about wasn't saving me anything.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Elmo, you are still wrong and still dont get the whole point.

When a bank receives a payment dispute, the funds get taken out of the receivers available balance and it goes into a 'reserve account' with the bank until both parties are contacted.
Once the investigation is complete, they send it back to the receiver or the sender.

The bank does NOT just return the money to the sender, they will ask the receiver if this was an error etc.. and if these Bitcoin folk choose to not dispute a reversal they they will obviously lose there money.

I had someone send me £2000 by mistake, they phoned there bank and the bank put the money in a reserve account. I could still see the funds in my pending balance but it was not available.
I phoned my bank and confirmed that it was not meant for me and the collections department somewhere reversed it a MONTH later... not 15 mins.

This payment was only reversed because i AGREED to it.

Can you imagine the amount of fraud and issues the banks would have if you could just reverse payments in 15 mins??

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

You guys seem to be fixated on the 15 minute point I made.

Allow me to clarify and hopefully put an end to this back and forth

The reversal of a payment itself can happen at any point from the minute the payment is done, to several weeks or months later (which includes 15 minutes after payment). Now the time it takes for the person to receive their money back is something I didn't even talk about. So you are misunderstanding the point here.

Re-read pages 1-3 and you'll get the general gist that most UK sellers here think it's impossible to get a UK bank transfer reversed. I've been saying from page 1 that it's very possible and very common in the Bitcoin trading world where fraud is common to get UK bank transfers reversed, which is a fact backed by proof on page 3.

This isn't some complicated analytical debate, it's very simple. UK bank transfers are not bulletproof and they can be reversed. This has been my point since I first mentioned it on page 1. There is no need to keep debating it lol.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Well... You did it say it?... In the very guide you wrote... and a guide is supposed to contain facts...and since that was far from a fact the credence of your entire guide is being questioned.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

There is no limit to when a bank transfer can be reversed. I have seen bank transfer reversed within an hour and I have also seen bank transfer reversed after 6 months. It all depends on what bank the buyer uses and also what bank the sender uses. Lots of variables

All fraud these days happen through social engineering and very rarely do the bank accounts get hacked. Some banks wont care what evidence you provide them they will still reverse the payment. Plus there are different kinds of fraud payments too which no matter what you give to any of the UK bank the payment will still get reversed.

Depends on how well you can convince your bank that you are a victim of a fraud

Don't have to give you a proof for this mate you will have to take my word for it iven I have done over 50k transactions. Payments do get reversed and if you don't have a proof of transaction it is very easy indeed

Not all anonymous transactions are dodgy. Most of my large volume buyers are buying coins to gamble etc and don't want their other half to know what they are doing lol. I get a lot of these buyers so anonymity is not always dodgy that's all I can say.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I didn't say that they were. The point I was making is that the thread was meant to be to cater towards people who wanted to be able to cash out BTC anonymously for whatever reason. When you have to provide a lot of ID the method of withdrawing is no longer anonymous.

If you can point me in the directions of creditable articles or sources that demonstrates that a bank can easily reverse a bank transfer that would be a really interesting ready. So far everything I have ever read or come across in the form of official statements from banks or articles published from creditable sources has made it very very clear bank transfers are irreversible.

Having also talked to my business bank account manager at Halifax he has also stated that when a transaction leaves my bank account that I have authorized they cannot force it to be returned even if they wanted to. The only times it would be reversed is 1 - if it was made to the wrong account and the recipient of the money agreed for the funds to be returned 2 - there was an unauthorized used of my account. That fits in with all the articles that have been linked to within the thread.

If yourself or Elmo can provide a some sort of evidence that demonstrates that bank transfers can always be easily reversed as has been said in this thread I am just going to have to go with what all the creditable articles have said alongside what my bank manager has told me. If you want what you say to be taken as more than 'trust me I am experienced' then you would need to demonstrate credible empirical evidence. Until then its basically hearsay

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

elmo, there I was thinking a certain member was being a bit too abrasive on you unnecessarily & I see these types of posts from you......not good man. What James & a few others are telling you, is infact correct.

How on earth did you descend into this level of falsehood ?

--

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

If you re-read the thread from the start, you would see who was being aggressive from the start. I'm providing information from experience, research, and the biggest BTC trader in the UK. All of which supports what I have been saying from the start.

There is a bit of arrogance in this thread and close mindedness, but I think we have all decided that everyone has their own opinion on the matter.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

UK banking regulations are what they are. Not much more to it really. You didnt provide a single creditble source other than a bitcoin forum

Elmo if you want to believe that a bank transfer can be reversed in 15 minutes at the drop of a hat despite banks themselves clearly saying that isn't possible then that's fine. Someone in a bitcoin forum says its possible so seems that is evidence enough.

As far as I can see one was being aggressive. UK based members were simply pointing out the inaccuracies of the premise of parts of the thread to prevent misinformation getting spread by citing bank statements, banking regulations and first had experience as a UK based trader. If you want to see that as being aggressive Elmo that is totally up to you

Threads like this are best just left for people to judge themselves. No point flogging the horse that died a long time ago

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Agreed we should leave the topic alone as there are different opinions on the matter.

I don't consider it aggressive conversation to be honest, was just addressing SUVE

Everyone is open to have their opinion :)

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

My offer is still on the table by the way... :)

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

The issue throughout this thread is that you are confusing opinions with fact

The fact is that UK banking regulations do not allow bank transfers to be reversed within 15 minutes automatically.

It is an opinion that you choose to for reasons known best to you yourself believe what you read in a bitcoin forum over what banking regulations and banks themselves state.

Now where is that horse..... ah there it is :deadhorse:

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I have not read ALL the thread from post to post and I am not sure I have the inclination to BUT I can see right away you are making the claim about 'reverse bank transfer' (OUTSIDE of the context James has provided right ?) and even I have to concede that you are infact (technically and legally by UK standards) incorrect about this.


The only reason I had sought to counter some of the onslaught you faced from certain quarters was due to the fact that I actually agreed with you on a certain post (i.e. US banks do not share info with Amazon due to legislation) and due to the fact that the person railing against you was really self righteous and belligerent in his style and his motivations/explanations were really nothing more than an ego stroke rather than for his claimed altruistic & benevolent motives (for randoms off the nets lol) which is nonsense as the net is filled with crap, he has the ability to filter that out without losing the plot but upon you, he continually got triggered .....

......but heck your other posts like this one over the reverse bank transfer.......do not reflect well on you my friend. They severely undermine you.

---

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I'm not sure what you are going about mate

My opinion is bank transfers can be reversed due to fraud, instantly, within 15 minutes, days later, the time frame doesn't matter. Any serious BTC trader on LocalBitcoins will tell you this is a fact and its a common occurrence with traders that accept UK bank transfer for Bitcoin.

Others in this thread do not believe this, and their opinion remains that its impossible for bank transfers to get reversed, thus the back and forth began. So I figured I would get the largest BTC trader in the UK to share his opinion on the matter, which supports what I have been saying this entire time (his post is on page 2 and 3).

Anyone can form their own opinion - I only brought the evidence I have to the table, which in my opinion outweighs the evidence others have brought to the table.

Nonetheless, everyone is open to their own opinion.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

That IS different to what was being claimed & the juxtapositioning of the BTC trader thing along to it but.....you know, I will remove myself from this thread/discussion on this basis (as I have more important stuff to do in life):

Threads like this are best just left for people to judge themselves. No point flogging the horse that died a long time ago.


Others are welcome to continually engage with you about this if they so wish.


----

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Yeah I'm still not understanding your point of view, but lets chuck it to a misunderstanding

-- I agree this conversation is going no where, we should all move on

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

To be honest whoever use coinbase is complete bloody idiot why would you give a company your identification and on top of it pay them a fee.

I believe when purchasing anything should be fully private. I do not need some company holding on to vital info and all sudden gets hacked? Then what? Your info is float out there on World Wide Web.

Sellers of accounts please stop telling people to buy from coinbase. Tell them localbitcoins. We aren't here trying to raise another Paypal in the BTC world. Its already hard enough to deal with ebay/PP. Lets not create another PP monster.

Also I do NOT endorse localbitcoins. Although I believe its a great site to use when you need to purchase BTC. It helps out individual ordinary people NOT CORPORATIONs. Invest in small business NOT BIG BUSINESS LIKE COINBASE.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

You didn't understand it because he chucked some random big words in his sentences, which make no sense given the context he used them in.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

ROFLMAO..... :rolleyes:

Hooooooooly bloomin' Moses ! ... :faint:


elmo buddy..., you know where I am if you ever were sufficiently inclined enough to want to reach out to me directly, without requiring any recourse or input from anyone else for that matter.


Anyways, gotta run. Stuff to do.


:deadhorse:

--

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

pal, what do you want me to reach out to you about?

The back and forth debate about the UK bank transfer reversal was done with already

People put out their opinion and we moved on

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I do not expect you to reach out to me anyhow. That reply was in response to the above posters snarky comment. He clearly had not noticed people had moved on...


The back and forth on the bank transfer was clearly not 'done already' as you imagine as this issue came up (on another part of the forum which you do not have access to) over concerns for the overall community here about the misleading and inaccurate claims in some of your posts you have made in various places, and the negative impact this may have on other members of the forums who may take your posts seriously.


I had (initially) stuck up for you at that point in time (and even took on a poster who was perhaps a little heavy handed with you at the time.....) until I saw some of your recent posts in question myself......


:rip:

--

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

:eek: sounds special

:focus:

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I really wish you would stop calling it an opinion

Its like when people say evolution is an opinion

Bah

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

@ SUVE if you feel I have said something inaccurate, please send me a private message and we can talk about it as I mostly speak from hard evidence and experience.

I feel the same way! :p

https://static01.nyt.com/images/sect...g/0720_big.gif

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

FYI: EACH HAS ITS RISKS....

US Based Exchanges POV: KYC & AML Regulation....

One thing that's omitted from a lot of folks who discuss this topic is they miss the point that you have to have an AML program in place, the licensing requirements, you have to have fraud & risk management in place, you have to have consumer protection processes in place.

The (Bank Secrecy Act) BSA "requires any person who owns or controls a money-transmitting business to register with the Treasury Department,". "That same act gives authority to the Treasury to determine what is a money-transmitting business, & Treasury delegated that authority to a bureau called FinCEN".

This means U.S. based exchanges may close down your accounts on their service if they notice that you re-sell coins on LocalBitcoins. This is so that they can comply with KYC & AML regulations.

In the U.S. pretty much each state has it's own regulations regarding this. Some require you to get a license as an MSB and comply with AML & KYC procedures. FinCEN has their own guidelines on the matter.
------------------

Bitcoin trades are public: all transactions are shared in a publicly available file called the Blockchain that’s posted to the Bitcoin peer-to-peer network.

That public ledger makes it pretty tough for big-time criminals to launder money through the network.

Each Bitcoin transaction generates a "blockchain" record showing its history, & the appended loose change thus identifies where the bulk of the money is going.

-----------------------

Selling bitcoins & turning them into cash without revealing your true identity is going to be extremely difficult, as all the major Bitcoin exchanges all demand proof of identity (specifically to avoid charges that they're involved in money laundering), & if they're broken down into smaller quantities to sell via a site like localbitcoins.com a paper trail will still be generated. As soon as it's possible to link one real-life bank account or identity to any bitcoins from that stash, it will be possible to work out their real-life identity.

--------------------------------------

Publicly known Real Life Localbitcoin Seller: Richard Weston.

Richard Weston, has been conducting Bitcoin transactions in person for over two years with hundreds of people & who is also the co-organizer of the DC Bitcoin Users’ Group. Every week, Weston trades between $0 & $4,000 in Bitcoin. He makes a slight profit on the fee, but certainly not enough to quit his job.

There are 100+ active sellers in Washington, DC alone. Richard Weston had a “reputation score” of a perfect 100.

Richard Weston has given interviews to mainstream news reporters, as well as having already spoken to Al Jazeera & NBC local, as well as a handful of DC’s omnipresent political bloggers), but from curious new users.

Richard Weston had this to say about buying & selling Bitcoins:

“People don’t understand the reason Bitcoin was invented. It was not designed to be anonymous,” he said. “It allows two people to transact across a distance relatively free of fraud & censorship without a third party you may or may not trust”.

For my transaction, Weston took out an almost exhausted miniature legal pad, & carefully pens in my first name, the amount of the transaction in dollars ($20), & in Bitcoin (0.11912563).

Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. If he sends me too little, he can just send a second transfer to make it up. But if he sends me too much, he can’t just call his credit card company to reverse it. There would be no way to fix that except for me to give him more cash.

The next step is to confirm my Bitcoin wallet address, a 34-digit gibberish username. I set up my wallet with Blockchain.info at Weston’s recommendation. After he confirms mine, he logs into his own Blockchain wallet with two-step authentication on his smartphone. Finally, Weston inputs the amount of money he wants to send to from his wallet to mine.

I pass the money across the table & watch the bitcoins appear in my wallet in the same instant.

http://readwrite.com/2013/10/23/i-bo...what-happened/

---------------------------------

RE: U.S Secret Service targeted people using Localbitcoins.com.

On a hot Florida morning a week ago, a young Quebecker named Pascal Reid showed up at a boutique hotel in Miami’s Art Deco district, carrying a laptop & an electronic wallet that held $316,000 in digital currency.

Mr. Reid was expecting to meet a man who had purchased bitcoins from him before. The buyer was, in fact, an undercover agent for the U.S. Secret Service, which arrested Mr. Reid & charged him with money laundering.

The case has shone a spotlight on the way that virtual currencies such as bitcoin have been used for illicit purposes. The arrest is also significant because it targeted people using Localbitcoins.com, an online directory that is one of the last places where bitcoins can be traded anonymously, an expert said.

“Bitcoin may be pseudonymous, but actually buying and selling bitcoins anonymously is not easy,” Nicholas Weaver, a senior researcher at the University of California at Berkeley’s International Computer Science Institute, said in an e-mail interview.

He said there were past examples of criminals using Localbitcoins.com as a black-market venue. “Criminals have to buy their bitcoin using some anonymous method. Thus it is natural to expect law enforcement to continue to focus on anonymous transactions used to buy and sell significant quantities of bitcoin.”

The investigation began in early December last year when Secret Service Special Agent Mark Kramer went on the Localbitcoins.com website, looking for sellers of bitcoins. He saw that someone calling himself Proy33 could be contacted “anytime” to meet in public places and trade bitcoins for cash.

Less than two hours later, in the same hotel, in a similar investigation, investigators arrested Michell Abner Espinoza, a 30-year-old Peruvian who was approached on Localbitcoins.com in the same fashion as Mr. Reid.

Both men were each charged with two counts of money laundering and one count of operating an unlicensed money services business.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle16831445/

----

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

FYI: US Federal Prison sentence of 4 years for an account holder on LocalBitcoins...

-John Powell plead guilty to two charges of operating an unlicensed money service business (MSB) for operating an account on LocalBitcoin. He was sentenced to four years in Federal prison.

-Charlie Shrem plead guilty to one count of aiding & abetting an unlicensed money transmitter, for helping Silk Road customers anonymously purchase bitcoin. He was sentenced to two years in prison, & forfeited $950,000.

Both cases resulted in federal prison sentences for the defendants, & were directly tied to the unlicensed operation of a money service business (A money transmitter, as mentioned In Mr. Shrem’s case, is a subcategory of money service business that provides money transfer services).

This means that individuals running Bitcoin businesses cannot afford to ignore U.S. laws- Federal & Local law enforcement are taking notice.
----

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

FYI:

LocalBitcoins connects users looking to buy or sell bitcoin. However, any sale of Bitcoin for profit, fits FinCEN’s definition of an exchanger.

LocalBitcoins neither provides anti-money laundering services for its users, nor verifies whether their customers are MSBs. Like eBay, the site connects buyers & sellers, & allows them to buy or sell in small or large amounts. However, money transmission is much more regulated than physical goods.

Mr. Powell’s sentencing demonstrates how sellers on Localbitcoins can face criminal charges if they do not comply with AML regulations.

The Localbitcoins business model closely resembles many bitcoin ATM manufacturers in this regard. Many bitcoin ATM manufacturers sell operational Bitcoin ATM’s, but responsibility for compliant operation of the machines falls on the owners, who operate the ATMs as MSBs.

----

elmo, in summary...

What you are doing within this thread is within the boundary of facilitating, or engaging in illegal activity easily resulting in felony charges, & Federal prison. Heck, your thread title says it all : -

It would not surprise me if x amount of time down the line, we hear or read about an aspkin forum user 'has been busted by Federal agents' or even if some Federal agents are infact active on here, actively targeting folks like yourself in gathering data & intelligence. It would obviously bring aspkin into disrepute.


I understand all sorts happens out here, but this is just ....right out here all in the open to all.

I have no dog in this race so to speak, I only tell you in good faith.

Good luck.

_

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

That is being a bit over dramatic.

Purchasing Bitcoin with cash is not illegal.

What the individual does with the bitcoin, or why they're doing it, is their own business. I follow the law and expect everyone to do the same.

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

Elmo....

You really did not or could not refute anything from the above content of my posts. ...:doh:

By being over dramatic, would you mean:

-Whether U.S. based exchanges may close down your accounts on their service if they notice that you re-sell coins on LocalBitcoins ? Nope, this is a reality.
-Whether undercover agent for the U.S. Secret Service or other State & Federal agents target LocalBitcoins ? Nope, that is also a reality.
-Whether actually buying & selling bitcoins anonymously is not easy ? Because it is not.
-Whether buyers on LocalBitcoins could, in fact, be an undercover agent for the U.S. Secret Service ? Nope, 100% possible & real. Proven.
-Whether John Powell who was sentenced to four years in Federal prison for operating an account on LocalBitcoins deemed an unlicensed money service business (MSB) alternative fact ? Nope, 100% real.
-Whether U.S. Federal & Local law enforcement are taking notice of places like LocalBitcoins ?
-You mean the exchange platform LocalBitcoin does not adhere to KYC/AML &/or CFT standards thus its users are exposed to law enforcement actions etc etc ?

-Or any other number of points from that content above that have remained unrefuted ?
-------------

'Purchasing Bitcoin with cash is not illegal'.

though I did not state this reductionist position anywhere, I fear our beloved elmo's is positing another of his many fantasies upon us once again (certainly no context given beyond this vague notion).

Wrong.

-OK, you mean can 'purchase Bitcoins with cash' or otherwise.... in countries whereby it IS illegal outright to do anything with Bitcoins or any crypto currencies for that matter, hmm...

-----

'I follow the law'... :shocked:


Is buying & selling/operating 'anonymously' not antithesis to following the Law, no ?

Given the 'Law' (or governments) have a monopoly on currency as do banks, they have a vested interest in 'attacking' the crypto currencies (as they have done so previously) via these 'Laws'..

[U]Can you point to a single jurisdiction, state, province or country where buying & selling Bitcoins 'anonymously' (where Bitcoin trading/buying/selling is authorized/regulated/allowed) is in compliance with the 'Law' ?;,

I stress the operative word here, anonymously.

operate anonymously = law compliance......:pry:

that 'Law':
-pertaining to taxation guidelines or implications for buying/selling Bitcoins ?
-covering anti-money laundering & combating the financing of terrorist regulations/provisions (AML/CFT) ?
-the prohibition & outright ban of the use of Bitcoins in the said country altogether ?


Bear in mind that a money transmitter is a business entity that provides money transfer services or payment instruments.And after all, bitcoin can be spent, traded, & bought, making it a way of transmitting money around the world.

Such individual bitcoin users may or may not be looked at as money transmitters, as long as they buy, sell, & trade bitcoin in exchange for goods & services.

In the US they are required to register with FinCEN, abide by the Federal laws & be registered in the state they are transacting in. This is a regulated financial transaction & anyone engaged in this business & not properly licensed & registered can be charged (as cited in this thread in my posts).


The LocalBitcoiners who go each week buying & selling are technically breaking both state & federal law:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-18309.pdf


Since you obey the law, I am sure you will no doubt be able to show proof to James of your money transmitter license given your Bitcoin Trader activity in the US : - I am sure James will confirm what an upstanding citizen of the aspkin community you are when he finally confirms to the rest of us of your registration & license status . .... :pry:


I dare say, 'following the Law' & operating 'anonymously' as you have understood it & outlined on your original thread is an oxymoron.

And, you are not really as anonymous in the objective meaning of that term as James has pointed out several times on this thread (i.e Bank account linkage or ID requirements) & so forth.

And, you have far bigger risks & concerns than chargebacks (esp if you are in the US, as law enforcement is keeping a close eye on the very platform & where need be doing sting operations on subjects on LocalBitcoins, some whom are now in Federal Prisons doing time) as that seems a pity side show compared to some of the more serious issues raised in my posts, backed up by credible source data or citation.


I'll leave this here & let others make their own minds up as to the accuracy of the information left here for their benefit & insight, lest they be led up a garden path.


:deadhorse:
-------

Re: Guide / Tutorial: Buying Bitcoin & Cashing out Bitcoin Anonymously
 

I'm not going to argue with you.

If you don't feel comfortable trading Bitcoin, simply don't trade it.