VAT threshold with stealth accounts ?

[Tgs]

Hi there

Im running a few stealth accounts with no problems yet, i have passed the eu limits and other verifications with them all good so far limits all increase there selfs and they all have reached top seller which is good, im just wondering whats the next hurdle ill face or even what hurdle cant be passed? i was thinking the vat next? what do you do? stop the account selling just before you reach it? i believe they start wanting vat details around 65k saying your close to it. or is there any way to go forward and keep selling ? if not then all accounts can only sell around this sum per year.

Is it possible to get vat details ?

Thank Guys i appreciate any answers in advance.

[backamblock]

i keep my accounts small, so i have no single one who would reach VAT Limit. but from what i read here, the general recommendation from the UK sellers is to stay below 70k per year in sales.
i myself stay below or around 30k per acc to be safe.

my 2cents.. if you have what many income on one account.. would maybe be better to split it to more accounts, where you could aim for 50k/year and have no fear to hit some limits.. as you could basically loose it every second.

[Tgs]

Thank you for the reply

yes i thought this myself as i couldn't see an easy or any way of getting a vat number for the accounts, but its a catch 22 , the accounts are hard enough to build to be able to sell near the vat threshold but also to stop them selling untill next year is a sore one, some accounts sell better than others thats the ones i would like to keep running non stop ;[ past the vat problem if any one has past it.

I remember reading a post saying one stealth user has made it to 1 million this is what made me wonder how he could pass the same problems we will get if we try and do the same.?

[backamblock]

hmm i am pretty sure there is a way to make a stealth VAT number
for Bank accounts and documents at least there is, so i would know where to ask...

But this is not about the stealth technics spoken about in this forum anymore, this can get you in serious trouble if you make one tiny mistake

so better stay below the 70k and build more accounts..

one more cent from me.. if you have too much work with 1 or 2 accounts, you seriously need to start automating things

[Tgs]

If there is anyone with the information or sells the service please feel free to pm me, as for now ill try stay bellow untill i can get a solid way round it.

I try stay away from automated listings i feel there a way to get you caught especially if your running 5 accounts with alot of the same items, i always feel there to much http trial left.turbolister?

Do you have a easy and safe way?

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by Tgs

If there is anyone with the information or sells the service please feel free to pm me, as for now ill try stay bellow untill i can get a solid way round it.

I try stay away from automated listings i feel there a way to get you caught especially if your running 5 accounts with alot of the same items, i always feel there to much http trial left.turbolister?

Do you have a easy and safe way?

sorry, no as it can get you in real (i mean Jail) trouble.. i do not want to be responsible for that.

hmm in germany the "selling manager Pro" with the "selling cockpit (without pro)" is free... that makes a huge difference first of all as you can manage and list items from either CSV or online with an excel style interface and presets for different things

yes i have, bu it involves a server running in your flat, which is neither cheap nor quiet

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

sorry, no as it can get you in real (i mean Jail) trouble.. i do not want to be responsible for that.

hmm in germany the "selling manager Pro" with the "selling cockpit (without pro)" is free... that makes a huge difference first of all as you can manage and list items from either CSV or online with an excel style interface and presets for different things

yes i have, bu it involves a server running in your flat, which is neither cheap nor quiet

Is it possible to obtain new VAT numbers in Germany and just use them for stealth accounts?

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Is it possible to obtain new VAT numbers in Germany and just use them for stealth accounts?

this is a very tough question.. it is easy to get a (legal) second one, yes.. but it is very hard after that...

think about "abmahnanwälte, impressum" and stuff like that.. also since you use a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ name, once one of these lawyers really tries to get you, you are in serious trouble for "dokumentenfälschung".

so it is possible, but one tiny mistake and you're gone and broke

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

this is a very tough question.. it is easy to get a (legal) second one, yes.. but it is very hard after that...

think about "abmahnanwälte, impressum" and stuff like that.. also since you use a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ name, once one of these lawyers really tries to get you, you are in serious trouble for "dokumentenfälschung".

so it is possible, but one tiny mistake and you're gone and broke

What if one enters a made-up VAT number just to bypass eBay? If one is paying taxes...etc, what could the problem be?

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

What if one enters a made-up VAT number just to bypass eBay? If one is paying taxes...etc, what could the problem be?

VAT Numbers can be looked up by everyone if it is real or ⊗⊗⊗⊗

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ust+id+check&ia=web

if you use a real one it is likely it already exists on ebay

[backamblock]

also, if one is paying taxes, the problem is that it is not on your VAT number, whch is seen as fraud again

[backamblock]

imo, the safest way would be to get a legal second number and then make Typos in the name and address you enter on ebay, but on the other hand make 100% sure to NOT make any typos in the Imprint/"Impressum" but only change some formatting there like additional spaces, special characters like "-" or ":"

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

VAT Numbers can be looked up by everyone if it is real or ⊗⊗⊗⊗

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ust+id+check&ia=web

if you use a real one it is likely it already exists on ebay

You know what's weird? I have two accounts with false VAT numbers and they have been operating for a year now. eBay never complained about the authenticity of those two numbers!!

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

imo, the safest way would be to get a legal second number and then make Typos in the name and address you enter on ebay, but on the other hand make 100% sure to NOT make any typos in the Imprint/"Impressum" but only change some formatting there like additional spaces, special characters like "-" or ":"

Who cares about the Impressum in the first place? When you file your taxes, just make sure everything you send to the Finanzamt is correct and that's it.

Just tell me who cares if the info in your Impressum on eBay has typos in them or not.


I have noticed something very strange in the last couple weeks on eBay.de, they are hiding the Impressum of newly created accounts as well as contact info, address...etc. I am kinda positive that eBay will omit this info of sellers in the future to deter potential sales outside eBay.

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

also, if one is paying taxes, the problem is that it is not on your VAT number, whch is seen as fraud again

You commit fraud if you lie to the tax authority (Finanzamt in this case).

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

You know what's weird? I have two accounts with false VAT numbers and they have been operating for a year now. eBay never complained about the authenticity of those two numbers!!

hmm this could have multiple possible causes..
1 you have not enabled the option "pay ebay fees without VAT"
2 they have not yet checked if your number is real, which means they have not yet given their Tax report since you made the account
3 you were lucky and entered a number that really exists?

other than that.. no clue assuming ebay makes their Tax reports as legally required

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

You commit fraud if you lie to the tax authority (Finanzamt in this case).

which you would do if you pay taxes on a number not registered to you, at least afaik but i am not a lawyer so could be wrong

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by backamblock

hmm this could have multiple possible causes..
1 you have not enabled the option "pay ebay fees without VAT"
2 they have not yet checked if your number is real, which means they have not yet given their Tax report since you made the account
3 you were lucky and entered a number that really exists?

other than that.. no clue assuming ebay makes their Tax reports as legally required

I don't think eBay reports sellers and their VAT numbers to the Finanzamt in the first place!!

There is a seller on eBay.de who had been selling literally for the last decade. That account was registered on eBay.de, but the company's headquarter was allegedly in Russia. All the stuff being sold was shipped from within Germany and no VAT was ever collected by that seller.

It was until a few weeks ago where I tried to purchase something from him and suddenly got the message "Die Bestellung kann aus steuerlichen Gründen nicht aufgegeben werden" or something like that.

Point is, it took the Finanzamt 10 years to find about that guy (who I think got reported by some other seller).


If eBay reports sellers to the German tax authority, you wouldn't see a single Chinese person selling on eBay.de as 99% of these sellers don't collect any VAT to begin with.


Seriously, if you do your taxes every year and pay what you have to pay, there should be no problem even if an official investigation was started against you. I don't think entering a VAT number with a typo in it on eBay is not a crime. With regard to the Impressum, I see a lot of sellers having their Impressum formulated something like this:

Aspkin Shop
Example Street 3
Berlin, 10256
Germany

So they didn't even enter their first or last name!

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

I don't think eBay reports sellers and their VAT numbers to the Finanzamt in the first place!!

There is a seller on eBay.de who had been selling literally for the last decade. That account was registered on eBay.de, but the company's headquarter was allegedly in Russia. All the stuff being sold was shipped from within Germany and no VAT was ever collected by that seller.

It was until a few weeks ago where I tried to purchase something from him and suddenly got the message "Die Bestellung kann aus steuerlichen Gründen nicht aufgegeben werden" or something like that.

Point is, it took the Finanzamt 10 years to find about that guy (who I think got reported by some other seller).


If eBay reports sellers to the German tax authority, you wouldn't see a single Chinese person selling on eBay.de as 99% of these sellers don't collect any VAT to begin with.


Seriously, if you do your taxes every year and pay what you have to pay, there should be no problem even if an official investigation was started against you. I don't think entering a VAT number with a typo in it on eBay is not a crime. With regard to the Impressum, I see a lot of sellers having their Impressum formulated something like this:

Aspkin Shop
Example Street 3
Berlin, 10256
Germany

So they didn't even enter their first or last name!

We are talking 2 different things here i think.. i mean if you use your real second VAT number you should do it right.

Also, as soon as you click the option "pay ebay fees without VAT" which requires you to give them one, they are leally required to give your entered VAT number to their Tax office, otherwise they would commit fraud to their Tax office.

If you do not click that option their Tax office has no reason to check it, but they still transmit it to them..
Their tax office again has no reason to theck the validity, as there are no transferred taxes to this number.

All again, as i said, assuming that ebay WOULD pay taxes as they are legally required to
When you as a registered german business send an invoice to someone you have the VAT number of, you are (afaik) legally required to use that VAT number in your tax documents

This russian guys story is pretty dope nevertheless


---
about the chinese sellers, the story is way ifferent.. as they are no german companies, they only have german accounts! so they are not legally required to pay taxes in EU

They are legally (if even registered) only a branch or warehoouse of their chinese company


---
AAH i remembered my 3rd point from above.. you kept your accounts under 17,5k€ per year, so it is "Kleinunternehmerregelung" which then does not require them to check validity if its not that either, i have no clue, as technically they have known your VAT number is invalid

[backamblock]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

I don't think entering a VAT number with a typo in it on eBay is not a crime. With regard to the Impressum, I see a lot of sellers having their Impressum formulated something like this:

Aspkin Shop
Example Street 3
Berlin, 10256
Germany

So they didn't even enter their first or last name!

actually it is "abmahnfähig", so grey to illegal
and you do not have to give a persons name if you have a company registered.. for examle a GmbH, which could be seen as german "LLC" or "Ltd."

are you from germany as your flag suggests?

[Tgs]

hi yes i do understand its a touchy subject, thats why i see most people stay away from these posts, but thats why were here right? the whole process is just about the same obtaining the info you need to keep going , i once asked accountant to get me a vat number for another account i was using and there answer was can you not use someone eleses vat number for this one ,i didnt think this was a good idea at that time so i didnt do it. im sure they run some sort of check to see if it matched the details provided.

Also i have a couple accounts running with foreign names and addresses selling in from the uk regestration address in asia and stock address in a fulfilment center in uk, one account is ok ...the other one keeps getting closed once a month for no vat information... now the account is no where near the threshold then a couple a days later its reinstated, what a pain ...ever time i loose my listings ... i live chat them they try say i need a vat number to carry on selling but i told them its not true as i contacted hmrc they said there getting a rising number of ebay sellers requesting this even tho they dont need to.

[dan_ebay]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

What if one enters a made-up VAT number just to bypass eBay? If one is paying taxes...etc, what could the problem be?

You're supposed to display your VAT number but doubt it will be an issue.