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Tell me how this is fair?
 

hello im a seller from russia. long story short 4 months ago i sold a rare car part to a customer from usa. the item value was 2500 usd

he received the item about 3 weeks later after i shipped it and all was good

3 month later after he received the item he opened a charge-back claim with his card issuer with the reason item is not as described and the bank ruled in his favor because paypal seller protection is a joke

well lesson learned

now tell me how is it fair if

1) he never contacted me with the problem
2) he did not return "defective item" to me
3) it took him 3 months after delivery to discover that item is not as described?

im from russia and there are absolutely no banks here that will rule charge-back claim in my favor if i

1) dont try to solve the issue with the seller
2) dont return the item on my own cost before get refunded

i will never ever sell anything expensive more than 50$ to usa

NEVER

EVER

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

PP seller protection is fair (sell on Amazon and you'll appreciate it way more) but they are at the mercy of the banks and consumer rights

Report the customer so they don't keep doing this

Did You reach out to them?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Welcome to the forum - all the best as you master stealth :thumb:


Rough to hear about your case OP - if you have some tracking and proof, might worth ringing up PP to fight...chargeback is very tough though

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

It's definitely not fair.
And you will encounter such buyers frequently.

Because they know even if you provide a superb service - they can always get the service and their money back and you can't do nothing about it.

The only thing you can do - just don't leave large sums of money in your paypal or bank that you use for business.

In my opinion, nowadays consumers are a lot bigger threat than service/product providers.
Because sellers always have a good reputation to maintain and deal with competitors, etc.
While consumers have absolutely nothing to lose.
That's why they wave their "my buyer/consumer rights & protection" flag everywhere.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

no thanks
usa sells are now closed
only cheap item will be sold to usa like cloths for wiping windows or car stickers

usa is the only country that has banks that can stole my money without requiring the buyer to at least contact the seller AND return the item first

unbelievable!!

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Next we will steal your elections.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

every country has scammers, just the scams for each country might be different. sorry to hear about your loss, but plenty of us have been scammed by russians.

it's ****ty people that cause problems, not entire countries

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Nothing to do with paypal protections. This was the buyers credit card. What were paypal supposed to do? And why would they refund without the buyer returning the item? That's not a thing unless you did something really bad.

And I've been scammed by A LOT of Russians. So why do you believe one single bad transaction from America, some how shines a bad light on 350,000,000 other Americans? One single transaction and now you blame the entire country? Russia is KNOWN for scamming people. America is not. You're more likely to be scammed selling in your own country. And I say this as a fellow Russian.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

lol excuse me? Credit card companies are global. You think Russian Visa has different banking laws than American Visa? American banks still require a buyer to return the item, so something is clearly fishy here and you're not telling us the whole story.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

yeah tell me more about fishy buyer
tell me how is it now possible to get refund with no return when there 10000000 posts over the internet where only usa credit cards companies dont require u americans to return the item first to get refunded

5000 usd scam from usa
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Sellin.../td-p/26917455

same **** from usa
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Sellin...5/m-p/30913348

i can find more but i can clearly see that u dont want to see whats happening here

and usa is the only country where visa and mastercard rules dont work like it work for all other countries

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Not all countries are the same in terms of scammers. I sell on eBay.de and I can tell you that 90% of people who scam me on eBay are not Germans, but foreigners who live in Germany and they are mostly Turkish, Polish and Russian.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

im not asking what countires do have most scammers

i just dont ****ing understand how is it possible to decide chargeback in the buyers favor when it was not as described case BUT item was never returned?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

For chargeback its same rules applies to EU and I am sure rest of the world aswelll, buyer can put chargeback upto 6months item not received needs to prove by tracking no and item not described seller needs to arrange return at this occasion you seems not done that so its ruled in buyers favour

Makes no difference USA or EU

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

I'm pretty sure buyer needs to arrange, and even pay for shipping, in INAD cases?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

my return policy is no return
how i suppose to arrange return when buyer never contacted me

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Nope Its sellers responsibility to arrange for the item to be picked up from buyers address

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Does not matter what yours policy is this is what the law is, i am sure those who know they simply abuse the system, you can get this reported to local authorities

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

I'm sorry, but what are you basing this off of? I had a charge back closed on me, because I didn't provide tracking information. I was not even asked for tracking information. I have a paypal case open right now, that is telling me I have to ship back the counterfeit thing I bought. So what exactly are you talking about?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

I had made chargeback claim myself it was item purchased from credit card from china and seller not bother about anything so I rang my card company up and ask them what can be done the item is not as described and they advised we will open chargeback which took around 2 to 3 weeks and i beleive i did provide them emails between seller and the person on the phone did say that seller should arrange for the item to be returned they given sometime to them and said if they fail then we will issue you refund

Then I had my full refund after that nothing heard

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

It's not fair but keep in mind the customer always right

sometimes it's really difficult to proof what you is right

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

sure wish it was that easy for me. I've had to jump through a ton of hoops any time I've done anything like that. Only ebay returns have been fairly easy.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

visa and mc rules require
REQUIRE to try to solve the issue with me the seller

do u understand it at least?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

https://www.visa.com.ru/dam/VCOM/glo...y-16-%20v2.pdf

page 37

If you have not received the returned merchandise (double check your incoming shipment records
to verify) or the cardholder has not cancelled the service, advise your acquirer. (For U.S. and Canada
transactions, the cardholder must make a valid attempt to return merchandise or cancel the service.
For International transactions the cardholder must return the merchandise or cancel the service)

now do u see the difference? the us customer only needs to make attempt to retunrn the item

when all other world HAVE to return the item in order to get refunded

the ****ing thing is no one contacted me for **** sake!!

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

so what? buyer never opened a dispute with ebay or paypal
he go straight to his card issuer and started charge back

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

why do u refer to ebay/PayPal rules when I clearly stated that the claim was raised with the card issuer?

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

You said in your first post its paid through paypal why dont you understand paypal is not going to cover this from their pocket they have to follow the rules of the land

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Because the buyer bought using PAYPAL, by putting in their credit card number. Why do you not understand this? You didn't sell directly to the buyer using his credit card. You don't have a website or merchant processor. Paypal was the middle man.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

Ugh. No. Paypal requires BUYER to pay shipping, in ALL cases. Only ebay forces seller to pay for shipping.

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

clost this

Re: Tell me how this is fair?
 

They stole from you. Plain and simple. And absolutely nothing you can do. eBay/paypal is fine for $100 items, even $200 items but anything more scammer can just take your item and keep it for free and eBay/paypal will do nothing to stop them. You are helpless like a small shopkeeper when the mafia come in and want a free present. Unless they are in the same city or state there is absolutely nothing you can do.