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Account take over: stealth check
 

Hi All,

A family member has kindly agreed to let me use their eBay account which as yet has no selling history. I have done my research and just wanted to check the setup below was suitable in 2022 to keep it stealthed from other accounts.

New SIM - is this necessary I have seen some people say the same number can be reused but seems odd?
New IP (confirmed with ISP that they don't recycle IP addresses)
New bank account (Monzo) to be added after selling first item
Same windows user account with new user account in Chrome with Canvas and WebGL spoofing using addons below

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...cppdebfp?hl=en
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...embdicik?hl=en

No eBay browsing or cookie building - I've read this is no longer necessary.

Return address will be variant of my real address they already have on file by putting a letter after the house number

Ms Outlook 2016 for emails with image downloading blocked - is there anything else I need to do with this?


Please let me know if I've missed anything?

Thanks

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Are you creating the account in your friends details with their permission or have they given you their account with no selling history?

If they gave you their account then you don’t need to change SIM card, only new user account, new ip and new bank account.

If your creating the account then yes you will need a new SIM card (EE SIM cards are the best)

You won’t need any browsing or cookie building it’s not necessary.

Return address is an interesting one I’m not sure if putting a letter next to your return address will raise any flags with eBay. What I can say is I attempted to create an account in my name with my address and putting A next to my number and my account still got suspended.

I use yahoo or gmail for my accounts and never have a problem with them.

Important info to note is January 23rd their are talks over HMRC requiring eBay sellers to submit tax returns if sales are more than £1000 on eBay accounts. If this goes ahead I hope your friend is aware of this as he/she could be receiving an unexpected tax letter in the post. It’s not confirmed this will happen but theirs many articles and websites about it.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Good luck OP - you're in good hands with samspalace :)

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Thanks, why are EE simcards the best?
I guess I will use a neighbors address then for returns.
Is Canvas and WebGL spoofing still necessary or is there a better method?
Is Outlook 2016 with images blocked okay, do they even need blocking still?

Thanks

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Blocking canvas and webgl will trigger the bots, default chrome or Firefox works good

And as long as images are blocked you’re fine

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Stop using those blocking apps.

You should really just stick to the foundation in stealth guide.

for address you can rent a mailbox

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

I don't think they're blocking anything? They are spoofing a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ set of credentials for eBay to store which are different to the ones they would otherwise see (allowing them to make links).

Not using them means a separate dedicated or virtual machine (with modifications). Unless eBay have stopped fingerprinting like this and a Chrome / FF profile is sufficient, despite having used the same browser with different profile and PC with a previously restricted account?

Thanks

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

The reason being why EE SIM cards are the best in my opinion is because it cost 99p with a free phone number on the back of the pack so you don’t have to top up to reveal the number.

I’ve got the same address as registered address, and dispatch address. I’ve not tried a neighbours address but you can try it I shouldn’t see why their would be a problem as long as it’s not your main address which got suspended for managed payments I think that should be okay.

I havnt put any blocks on my emails it’s very rare I log into them tho. If your going to use your email linked to eBay regularly then to be safe it would be best to block the images. I’ve never used outlook for eBay tho only yahoo and gmail as previously mentioned.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Just a few observations....

Do not use a sim/phone number already know to ebay - for the sake of a few quid its madness.

As long as your ISP is 'mainstream' then a recycled IP address isn't an issue, because contrary to what they've told you they do recycle them, there's no way on earth they have a supply of fresh unused IP's to throw around for use by regular joe.

Don't get cute with any script manipulation on your browser. New User on your PC, default setting on browser and away you go. Remember the first rule - look normal.

Return address - leave it as the registered address for now. Don't make like difficult until you've actually got a return. Indeed, on new accounts selling cheap tat to warm the account up I've given refunds without return to protect my address.

Outlook works perfectly, with images blocked as a precaution.

If you're using a Monzo personal account then be prepared for issues if it becomes apparent to them you're using it for business purposes. They will freeze the account.

Like I said above and gets repeated often, simply look normal, put yourself inside the head of a newbie and just act accordingly. Ebay have far too many tool at their disposal to spot anomalies and in todays system driven world it's easier for them to simply say 'we don't like the look of this, easiest thing to do is block them'.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

It IS my a main address that got suspended for managed payments.. I guess returning to a neighbor should be fine since it won't be frequent, but initially I'll keep it the same as the registered address.

Is there any particular reason for a new user on the PC compared to just using different chrome profiles. I assume it's just an safely lock thing where it stops you making a mistake having two profiles open?

Thanks for the tip about Monzo.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Keeps cookies separate as well

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

But cookies are already separate in different Chrome profiles. I can't see what having different user accounts achieves besides a safety interlock type thing of clicking the wrong profile while on the IP meant for another account.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

The part I don't understand is why people would make things more complicated than just following the basics on the stealth guide like making new user accounts for each ebay account.

It can't be simpler than this.

About your address, instead of using your neighbor's why not rent a small mailbox?

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

It is, I simply do not trust browser technology when a new user takes that issue out of the equation. It just a more disciplined approach IMO.

How many ebay accounts are you planning on running on the same machine?

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

I can't find anything of any real meaning, can you supply some links please to articles/websites.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Yes here is the article below which was published in August 2021 https://iwork.co.uk/news/your-income...ectly-to-hmrc/

Obviously it’s all speculation but if it goes through in January 2023 then all eBay accounts will have to be in your own name unless your friend/family member doesn’t mind receiving tax bill in the post.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

I found this on the gov website as well

https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...s-consultation

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Thank you.

Given the state of HMC at the moment that would be one hell of an undertaking. I wonder how many extra staff they'd need to even scratch the surface and how much it would cost. They've form for spending more on 'revenue initiatives' than they end up collecting.

It will be interesting to see what gets announced, but one thing is for sure, it's the future and will be implemented at some point and not too far into the future either.

It's all about global compliance and control.....:shhh:

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Yes I completely agree I believe one day in the future this will go ahead if not in January 2023 it’s only a matter of time. I think we only need to wait till October 22nd until they announce what will be happening.

Their probably invest in some sort of robotic technology which automatically gets reported to HMRC. The thing is it’s all going to come down to threshold and this is what I’m finding really interesting as this is what eBay are doing now.

It’s happened on 2 of my accounts £1100 and £1300 threshold if eBay can’t verify you then ID request I think it’s going to be similar with HMRC so if you turnover £900 your be under the radar and won’t ping up so to speak but if you reach £1k or £2k whatever it is your ping up.

It’s the future like you said everything is changing and we all need to adapt to it.

Hyperthetical question is if I have 5 accounts in my name but different address’s are these letters going to go to the different addresses? It’s so much to get your head round which is why I’m planning on switching a few accounts over.

Update on the post to the question I asked.

It looks like it won’t matter if I have 5 different addresses as tax will be collected from resident address on eBay or (rented property)

It’s not a bad thing for me as I’m useless with tax anyway but I definitely need to change a few accounts over before January 2023.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

How the model rules work
1.7 Broadly, the OECD model rules work as follows:

platforms must collect certain details about their sellers, including information to accurately identify who the seller is and where they are based, as well as how much they have earned on the platform over an annual period
platforms must verify the seller’s information to ensure it is accurate
platforms must report the information, including the seller’s income, to the tax authority annually by 31 January
platforms must also give that information to the sellers, so that they can use it to help them complete their tax returns
tax authorities then exchange information with other tax authorities where the sellers are resident (or rental property is located)
the information is used by tax authorities to ensure that sellers are complying with their tax obligations and to tackle non-compliance if they are not
tax authorities must enforce the rules and see that platforms are operating them correctly, and there may be penalties for non-compliance

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Logic says they'd have to send to the named seller at the registered address. Any paperwork would then revolve around UTR's or NI numbers. That's the only way it could be done - and that's assuming the recipient replies. What if they don't? Potentially how many millions will they have to chase? Lets not forget this covers many areas such as AirBnB, takeaways, letting agencies etc so the numbers involved will be huge.

Ironically, HMRC advise individuals never to share UTR or NI with third parties to avoid fraud etc so to make it really work effectively they'd have to advise ebay etc to request some form of state tax/personal ID reference thus reversing this stance.

That said, Amazon are the template, they're already doing it. Once you hit a certain (modest) revenue you must register as a business and provide a UTR or you're suspended. It must be noted that this applies to sellers of new goods, those ditching their used books etc seem to avoid the same level of scrutiny.

Ebay could copy them and HMRC would, for now, be grateful for the massive increase in voluntary tax declarations and/or tax-dodgers calling it quits.

As always, there will be those who find workarounds but unless it's very rewarding it's going to be another layer of hassle that will inevitably put many off selling 'under the radar'.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

It looks like it won’t matter if I have 5 different addresses as tax will be collected from resident address on eBay or (rented property) so if they can’t get access to me at 1 blue road on eBay account then they can access me through my rented property 10 blue road resident address.

It’s not a bad thing for me as I’m useless with tax anyway but I definitely need to change a few accounts over before January 2023.

You can tell eBay is becoming more like Amazon I mentioned in a post that I guarantee when joining eBay one day in the future a video call will be required. As for what you said I can see eBay doing the same or similar to what Amazon is doing with requiring Amazon sellers to register as a business.

Maybe the new tax system might only just target ebay business accounts and not personal accounts I can’t see this happening tho as their are sellers making personal items to re sell and just choose a personal account but HMRC are not stupid so maybe this threshold of £1k/£2k will be triggered on any account which I personally think it will be.

The thing is they will only have turnover on eBay accounts as well they don’t have stock invoices/receipts so your net profit can still be the same you declared before.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

most likely everything would be done electronically , it is however questionable what they are going to do about millions of small sellers. it is barely possible to investigate everyone

for example germany has had such a system for years where all details are sent to the state. actual investigations take place there with sellers who have a certain volume of sales

by the way it is also questionable if tax can be charged on everyone who make more than 2000 pounds per year on turnover. eventually this turnover can come from anything , if you sell your used stuff from home you do not owe tax even if it is worth 10000 pounds , someone would have to investigate. on 2-3 million people? I doubt , investigating someone for a turnover of a few thousand pounds would most likely cost more than any tax collected so that it is likely that everyone would be reported but only a small portion would get a reaction

for what I know ebay are already sending information to various tax authorities and have been doing it for years

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Thanks for clarifying, all I wanted to know was if there was some other reason relating to browser fingerprinting etc I wasn't aware of.

Well I've created 6 in 6 different Chrome profiles. I can see how it may be easy to miss and forget a particular Chrome user is minimised in the background though so I'll do it the user account method.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

It's not a question of investigating millions of people and charging tax, it's a question of making some sellers accountable, as I said earlier, Amazon are already doing it for those selling new goods, those selling used goods are not scrutinised as much. It would be very easy indeed for ebay to copy their model and HMRC simply sit back and wait for new 'customers' to role in.

HMRC would literally have to do nothing, those that voluntarily declare are easy pickings, those that decide to pack it in means buyers have to use tax paying sellers. Win Win.

I'm surprised ebay haven't already implemented the Amazon model, it would delight HMRC and and keep the platform sweet in their eyes.

That said, ebay might do nothing other than supply seller data and make HMRC do all the work, I'd be very surprised if they chose this option.

In any event, this is an exercise in tracking down tax-dodgers. If you owe no tax, you pay no tax. :)

Lets see what the imminent results of the consultation are and then we can speculate further.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

The consultation period ended in October 2021, over a year ago, since then nothing concrete has been announced.

HMRC usually like to give a long notice period for tax purposes, therefore I believe this will not happen in early 2023.

I have a friend working in the tax department of HMRC, he is not aware of anything internally announced in terms of investigations regarding this, on the contrary, HMRC has stopped recruiting extra workers for the tax department.

Also, ebay wouldn't want to lose their sellers, without sellers they have no income, that's why they haven't introduced features as strict as amazon and will do the minimum required to comply.

On an even playing field, I believe ebay would lose out to the giant that is Amazon, prime video, prime music, free next day shipping, if you're a prime member. I am personally a prime member because of their video service, and since then I have never purchased anything from ebay because of next day delivery even for a Sunday on some items.

ebay know this and they know they need to make their platform easily accessible to sellers to compete with amazon, that's why they would like to stay away from strict measures as long as possible.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

How many worthwhile sellers do you think they'd lose? Lets not forget this is about clamping down on tax-dodgers so it stands to reason it would be businesses operating as private sellers.

In any event, it's not for them to decide, it's going to be a statutory requirement for them to disclose sellers and their turnover. That would be the minimums they could do and that alone would spook tax-dodgers into going legit or quitting - and there's nothing ebay could do about it.

It's going to happen sooner rather than later. HMRC will know how Amazon operate and could well 'encourage' ebay to follow suite.

IMO ebay will do everything asked of them and probably some more, they know what's good for them.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Wow so I just found out my family members account which I just converted into a sellers account has 700/35000 limits straight off. Is this typical or am I extremely lucky, it seems crazy good.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

This is not lucky at all this depends on the persons credit history so if you just created an account in your friends name with their permission and they have good credit history eBay will give you good limits.

You would want to change the account over in your name when asked for ID or use your friends ID if they let you.

If it’s completely verified then you might never be asked for ID but with tax laws etc it’s best to get it transferred over to you eventually.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Not exactly the easiest to change an account over to a different ID though - just a thought

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

Yes it's normal, a friend opened a new business account couple months ago, and the limits were 1000/10,000, but go slowly as he was hit with a lot of documents to provide because his total sales hit 1900 in the first week.

Even with high limits don't sell to quickly for the first couple of months otherwise bots will put a restriction due to safety concerns.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/tax-alerts/...ital-platforms

Following a recent consultation on the implementation of the OECD’s Model ‘Reporting rules for digital platforms’, the UK Government has decided that the new rules will start from 1 January 2024. This new date is intended to give platforms and their advisors time to prepare for the implementation of the new rules, with collection of information starting from 1 January 2024 and submission of the first reports due by the end of January 2025.

Further, HMRC has said that it is currently considering the many comments and issues that have been raised by the consultation respondents. HMRC is aiming to publish the Government’s response to the consultation, draft regulations giving details of the new rules, and an update on interactions with European Union (EU) rules in this area (referred to as DAC71) this summer. HMRC has said that it will also be engaging with platforms and their advisors before the new rules come into effect.

-------------------

Looks like this is delayed for now....

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

^^^

Certainly going to have a big impact on stealth accounts, never mind legitimate ones who are 'trading under the radar'.

I've already had a message from Amazon EU that it's being implemented, for all intents and purposes with immediate effect.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

I havnt put any blocks on my emails it’s very rare I log into them tho. If your going to use your email linked to eBay regularly then to be safe it would be best to block the images. I’ve never used outlook for eBay tho only yahoo and gmail as previously mentioned.

Re: Account take over: stealth check
 

I've already had a message from Amazon EU that it's being implemented, for all intents and purposes with immediate effect.
mobdro 2022