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HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Hi Everyone,

I'll start by saying I'm actually a reasonably known member on this forum already but am posting on a new account as my ex partner knows my online alias which I used here.

Since November last year I've been using a private (non business) eBay account I registered using a partners second address, who I was with at the time. We separated shortly after in early December but I have been continuing to use the eBay account with payouts into my own bank account.
It was not an amicable break up and my concern is that if she were to be contacted by HMRC she may well claim I never had permission and effectively opened the account fraudulently. I'm not sure if this would cause me problems or not?

I'm self limiting sales to be in the region of £1800 per month gross which I don't exceed but wondering if this is at a level where eBay are likely to hand over details to HMRC, or if HMRC may notice this account in their dataset from eBay, as it's regular daily sales (not just one off big items).

I don't have an issue with declaring the tax if advisable at this level of sales but more concerned about my ex partner potentially claiming fraud if contacted by HMRC, and what implications of this may be? We are not in contact, I have since moved address and recently changed my phone number so she couldn't simply pass over my details for HMRC to see the tax had been paid by me or not, even if she wanted to. I assume any contact to her from HMRC if coming, would be after April 2024 as they would need to first see that tax was owed?

Or realistically am I likely to be fine just doing nothing? Everything I've said is worst case scenario.

Thanks

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Beginning in early 2024 ebay, and all other selling platforms, will be required to send the income figures of all sellers (over £1000 I believe) to HMRC.

The data they supply to HMRC will be in the name of the account holder....you can see where this is going.

Plenty of article about this out there, here's one for starters:

https://www.icaew.com/insights/tax-n...-early-as-2023

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

We all know this, but what will Inland Revenue actually do anything? Who knows. Will they come after people with stealth details? Again, we don't know.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

OP didn't seem to know, they won't be alone :)

I have said on the other threads about this issue that they will be swamped by data given the wide reach of folk it encompasses and that some will choose to wing it and play the safety in numbers game. I will agree that it will be impossible for them to track down some stealthers based upon (legitimate) bank account details alone even if they ever got that far into their new customer list. It stands to reason they'll have their hands full with those who make voluntary declarations and those who simply fold when, say, a threatening letter falls through the door.

Others, like me, won't be and I've already started the process of slowly making changes in an attempt to legitimise my accounts.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Thanks, I'm already aware about the tax crack down next year.
I'm most concerned if this could qualify as fraud or not if my ex partner said permission was never given? And if it might be seen as an attempt to avoid tax / tax fraud?
I'm not sure if the monthly sales involved are substantial enough to be worrying about either of these though.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Yes, yes and yes they are, :thumb:

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

If you report the income on your income tax form you will certainly be fine ....you were partners and nasty break ups with "he said she said" issues are of limited evidentiary value without corroborating evidence.

However I would strongly consider setting up a new ebay account not in your ex partners name

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

A stealth account being created is not an offense, the reason is argued that is was created because eBay would prevent you from registering your own details and having an account. Nobody has been prosecuted in the UK or US for this as far as I am aware for creating stealth accounts. Your moral dilemma is to report those earnings to HMRC, which I would advise. Then you are not avoiding paying tax. Remember the sales are not the profits to be taxed but the net gain is. I would look into making the account a business one behind a LTD company and the details into the mechanics of doing it I will not go into. This would steer you around problems of the future.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Thanks but is a stealth account legally the same thing as an account in someone else's name who may claim it's not them and they know nothing about it, resulting in further HMRC investigation.

I guess they can fairly easily trace it to me through my real bank account and bank address so the "attempted fraud" is pretty minimal on my part. But are they likely to accept "I just made another account because eBay prevented me from registering my own details" or refer it onto a fraud team for further penalty / prosecution..

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

The reason why it is not considered fraud is that you are not financially impacting the persons name you are putting on the account. Oxford English definition of fraud is “ wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain” as long as you declare the tax on the net gain of the account for work you have done i,e, selling, there is no criminal deception, especially against the old girl friend.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

HMRC have had access to both ebay and amazon data for years , now it is more about brining everything in order so that every platform reports everyone

but I can assure you that ebay and amazon have been on the radar for a long time so that there are no secrets there

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

I don't see how it can be done for existing Amazon accounts. What's your plan for them?

The data won't actually be passed to HMRC until the end of next year either.

I'm just not sure how this will work out.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

It is fraud if you have submitted ⊗⊗⊗⊗ ID. Go and try opening a bank account with ⊗⊗⊗⊗ ID and find out.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

best to avoid using old info

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Welcome to the forum OP - all the best as you master stealth :thumb:

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

LOL, that's exactly what OP is doing. :lol:

He doesn't own the account and has no legal claim to it. It is deception, it is fraud. Go check out the UK police ActionFraud website for further info.

If his ex got wind of this wheeze then they could make life very difficult for them. Indeed, if, say, she was claiming benefits they'd almost certainly deem the account, and income, to be hers.

Can you imaging the ridiculous scenario where someone is on benefits but managing a very profitable ebay account and claiming that because the monies were going to their great grandmas account then the money wasn't theirs. Not happening.

I recognise that for this to go pear-shaped for OP they have to be challenged by their ex if they got mail regarding the account or if HMRC caught up with one or both of them. How they manage this risk, however small it might potentially be, is their business, but don't sugarcoat it will gibberish like "the reason is argued that is was created because eBay would prevent you from registering your own details and having an account". This isn't a stealth account, this is a genuine account with genuine implications and any aggrieved party couldn't care less about you being banned from ebay.

Times are changing, better to go into this with our eyes open and make an informed decision than to rely on meaningless hearsay.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

TBH I don't know about Amazon. My accounts are semi-ligit, I created them because at the time it was one seller account per household and for tax evasion purposes.

Most likely scenario for me...I consolidate sales to two of the four accounts and register for VAT probably on the flat rate scheme.

I've toyed with the idea of creating a new account and setting it up in such a way as they would be deem separate entities if the VATman ever asked now they have relaxed the number of accounts you can have but I'm uncomfortable about Amazon finding a reason to suspend both.

I've been greedy for too many years now, I don't have a problem consolidating and legitimising my activities. Getting to old for the potential hassle...

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Sorry if this is a little off topic. I’ve just recently caught wind of this upon reading on the forums. I am not a business but I have sold in the past 2 years on a genuine account some house hold items which came to around £9,000. Im just wondering what this means for next year is all our information being passed on from what we have sold etc? All seems quite confusing to me. Thanks!

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

If OP separated from his girlfriend on bad terms,why does he continue to use her account ??
She could get him into trouble as well,what if tax authority or creditor found out she is selling on Ebay,?
It does not matter if the bank account is not in her name.
Years ago there is a brick and mortar retailer who was audited by IRS ,they asked Ebay to furnish his Ebay account and sales figures,he ended up paying a six figures fine and tax to the government
(That was before this 1099k Paypal and AMZN have to send out)

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

I would think that if the OP stopped using the girl friends account, declared any earnings from this eBay account on his tax self assessment he should not be worried.

Best advice get a better girl friend, open a LTD company, have her open a business account on eBay for the company and then remove her as director as replace her in Companies House as sole director.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

It is too late to stop using the ex 's account,he has been selling for dunno how long,you cant erase past sales.
what is the ex doing now?I am surprised she does not want to use her account to keep selling?

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

It has only been 6 months that the account has been opened and if you look at the thread by the OP the girlfriend knows about this forum and his other Aspkin account name, so you can be safe to assume that she knew what he was doing. He is afraid that if HMRC contact her about the sales and tax owed that she will react spitefully, saying that she knows nothing about it so she is not liable for paying tax. As the sales reporting from ecommerce platforms does not start in the UK until next year they have no reason to contact her, there is no 1099 or variant of it, in the UK. So if he stops selling now he should be OK. He can close the account and his ex can open one up at a later date if needed.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

When are we allowed to sell until? I have items around my home that I have sold over the past 2 years which have come to around £9k and I wanted to sell a couple more items which will come to around £2k. Im not a business I just sell some of my used items but this thread has got me abit worried and wondering whether I should just stop selling altogether?

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Dont know about UK,but in USA,selling things around the house,the govt does not expect you make money ,they figure you must have paid more for those items long ago

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

If it’s your personal items then you have nothing to worry about you can sell your own personal items, it’s the personal accounts selling professionally and avoiding tax that will be targeted. This is supposed to start in Jan 2024

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your input in this thread so far.

Just to explain a few things, my ex is not bothered about eBay and doesn't use it, she's not interested in the account and has no confirmation of it's existence. I asked about creating it in her details which she agreed to but didn't mention anything about it from there since I didn't use it much initially.

She doesn't know about this forum or Aspkin, she simply knows my standard online alias which if googled may reveal my posts on this forum.
The spiteful part is correct, I'm afraid her inaction to name me as the proprietor could result in fraud related investigations. Any outcome of this might be mitigated by paying the tax, or maybe paying the tax isn't sufficient, this is what I'm trying to find out.

You mention sales reporting from ecommerce platforms does not start until next year but I have seen articles suggesting ebay already turn over certain accounts over to HMRC.
I guess a good question to ask the veterans of this forum would be do UK based members post up threads reflecting the above?

I have built up feedback, good limits etc on this account now so I would much prefer to keep using it and pay the tax, provided there wouldn't be any potential fraud issue.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

If your girlfriend gave you permission to open the account then no fraud can have been done. Fraud is opening an account without her permission with the intention to defraud ordeprivace her of money

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

I think we're all agreed that at this stage, if OP was to stop using his ex's account then it would be unlikely in the extreme he could be prosecuted for fraud.

But, for reasons unknown, you are deliberately overlooking that in the eyes of UK law, (I did suggest you look at the Police actionfraud website for clarification) every governmental department, benefits office, HMRC, even ebay, would deem that it is her account and he is knowingly using it to make financial gain if he continues to use it without her permission.

That's fraud and no online wanabee lawyer is going to change that.

OP must surely have read my posts, even looked at the actionfraud website and decided there's a risk if they continue to use it and the stars align against him. I suspect they're going to continue to use it anyway and take a chance and I wish them good luck.

All they need to do is fathom out how they're going to pay the tax due on someone elses income and ensure their ex never gets any post or a visit from HMRC. :)

...and god forbit she ever needs to claim benefits and their rutheless detective terriers get their teeth into her financial affairs.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Look up the Fraud Act 2006 and if the girlfriend gave her permission to open an account in her name the CPS under their own guidelines would not prosecute. Suggest you take your tablets before posting in the forum in the morning it will stop you bullying everybody with b/s comments.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Stop using her details asap. Most whistleblowers are usually ex partners in business and personal relationships. And they make solid evidence compared to a neighbor or jealous competitor grassing you up

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Sigh....at the risk of repeating myself we are all agreed that at this point no fraud is likely to have taken place to the extent it would be prosecutable.

But if he continues to use it then he could get into identity theft bother at best, prosecuted for fraud at worse. Fact. You telling me to read a complicated Act you googled doesn't change that. The irony is you haven't read it yourself and certainly wouldn't have fully understood it if you ever did. None of us would.

You've make a mistake, you're wrong, stop doubling down in an attempt to persuade this poster to ignore the truth. I know it hurts but there are tablets which will ease the pain, would you like me to send you some. :)

Here's a suggestion if you want to truly help. Give OP some guidance on how they'll address the two issues I mentioned above which is effectively all they asked for, it seems they've accepted doing nothing has unwanted implications.

"All they need to do is fathom out how they're going to pay the tax due on someone elses income and ensure their ex never gets any post or a visit from HMRC. "

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

There's two points I'm stuck with at the moment, the first I think people could help with, the second maybe not.

I have seen articles suggesting eBay already turn over certain accounts over to HMRC but I'm not sure if this is only business account with much higher revenue than my sub 2k per month.
Have long term members of this forum seen posts up here of HMRC chasing personal accounts with relatively low gross?


If I pay the tax would it negate any fraud related issues that could possibly arise? Or would the act of using someone else's details and the prevailing investigation to locate me take precedence over me having actually their dues?

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

2 unrelated issues,one is paying tax from what you earned,another is using other people ID.
iF YOU ARE SO OBSSESSED WITH BEING CAUGHT,CLOSE THE ACCOUNT NOW

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

You said in post #5 that you were aware of the impending law changes. If true, then you know fine well that from next year that selling platforms will be sending all turnover figures for all accounts with an turnover of, I believe, £1000 to HMRC. That makes all current and previous experiences redundant but for what it's worth ebay have never voluntarily handed over sales figure to HMRC. Clearly that's set to change.

Paying the tax on someone elses income will not negate fraud or identity theft. Read the Actionfraud website as I suggested. It's clear from your repeated posts you know that. As I mentioned above, how on earth do you plan on doing it? Will you complete a tax return or get a UTR in her name? Surely not. And then there's the potentially explosive situation where your ex gets a letter or visit from HMRC. What then?

It seems to me you're going to keep ignoring common sense and asking the same questions over and over until someone tells you to crack on and you'll be fine. Good luck with that and I wish you well but consider taking professional legal advice before you do.


Each to their own but it is beyond me that with the impending changes someone would potentially commit identity theft, fraud and have the implications whirring around in their head over such a tiny amount of profit.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

So all sales now and before next year will not be handed over is that correct? But any sales next year when this is implemented will then most likely be handed over? Im not a business, like I've said previously I've just sold some of my items around the house and in a year I have probably sold around £4k of stuff all my items are used aswell. Its just worrying really because I had a few more items I wanted to sell in the next few months for summer which is probably around £900 worth in total and after reading this I'm now reluctant in doing so. Next year I wont be using eBay at all as I wont have anything worth selling. So i guess my question is, is it okay to tell some more household items in the next couple of months?

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Ebay is NOT the only place you can sell,are there flea markets or classIfied ads in UK,you can sell there and you may not even have to take credit card,cash only.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

At the end of next year all sales info from January 2024 will be passed onto HMRC from all marketplaces.

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Thank you! Really appreciate it. Ill sell my last few household items for the summer and be done with eBay then!

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

Easier said than done but good luck ;)

Re: HMRC questions on an ex partners account
 

What do you mean?