| |  | |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-01-2024 05:44 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ill Be Back
(Post 1245018)
Thanks for the reply. I agree to everything you've said as a lot of people have said the same thing in terms of the manpower to cherry pick each individual. The question is HMRC could have done this for the past 20 plus years. Why now?
| A change in (global) governmental legislation has forced ebay to provide this information. HMRC were not behind the decision. I'm pretty sure their work-from-home layabouts don't want extra work, they're happy paying lip service to the treasury. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ill Be Back
(Post 1245018)
I have read through most of the messages in the post and it seems like it's over for most people. I am hoping that nothing comes of it as it will affect a lot of peoples lives
| It's not over, just got to find a way of legitimising your tax affairs. Even some stealth accounts can be ran to the satisfaction of HMRC.
In reality, the number of true stealth accounts is very small indeed, it's not going to affect 'a lot' of people. Forums like this warp reality. |
| Freakzilla | 08-01-2024 11:08 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
We do know exactly what info marketplaces have to provide as it's legislation, and bank account details is one of them.
It wouldn't even take a lot of manpower. This is 2024 everything is automated. The feeds from the marketplaces will be loaded in and all the info is there. Vat avoidance everything. It would easily be able to link into tax returns. I was working with systems like this at HSBC 20 years ago.
Honestly there is so much info on these threads about this. People should read them. Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky
(Post 1245017)
It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.
Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.
What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.
If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.
In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.
Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.
All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.
| |
| james_112233 | 08-01-2024 12:27 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
The golden days are over.
Once upon a time you could run accounts that belonged to a phantom alias, didn't have to withdraw funds just spend directly from PayPal. |
| Ill Be Back | 08-04-2024 12:20 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.
I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.
I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.
What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.
Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.
Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.
I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.
Please let me know what you guys think. |
| Freakzilla | 08-04-2024 01:03 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
It really worries me what some people post on here. How do people get through life?!
That wasn't what the Etsy email actually said. They said from next month they will start to ask some sellers to supply more info.
I'm sure HMRC will be fine for you defrauding them and not paying tax on income you've made. Why would they be bothered? If they do come after you, say it's OK because members on the Aspkin forum said it wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure that will then be the end of it.
The answer is nobody knows, anything is a guess. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ill Be Back
(Post 1245138)
Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.
I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.
I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.
What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.
Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.
Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.
I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.
Please let me know what you guys think.
| |
| degsey69 | 08-05-2024 01:53 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
My take on it, is when eBay ask you for your NI number you will have reached a predetermined sales limit either on value or volume and they will give you 30 days to produce it or have the account limited. I believe that number is greater than £1000 but we will see as time goes on.
I think the private seller selling hundreds of thousands a year will have made themselves a target as HMRC will be monitoring high volume private sellers anyway.
So if you are asked for your NI number then go legate or close the account down or make it a business account and declare taxes. |
| rswomA | 08-06-2024 01:26 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky
(Post 1245017)
It all depends on what NI number you (eventually) input for the stealth account.
Then it requires them to select that NI number for investigation.
What we don't know is if eBay are required to also provide the bank account details with their mandatory 2025 submissions. My guess is they won't be.
If not and HMRC really wanted to find out who is behind an account then they always have the courts to fall back to to require ebay to relaease all information they hold on any given seller.
In reality, to manage the insane amount of data the new requirements are going to provide HMRC with would require a hell of a lot of manpower to target even a tiny fraction of sellers. Lets not forget, this doesn't just apply to ebay, its Amazon, etsy, Vinted, employment agencies, airBnB, Deliveroo....the list is massive.
Even cherrypicking some obvious big money targets across the whole employment marketplace will give them a mountain of work.
All that said, it is what it is, only you can decide how you manage the account and the perceived risk of investigation.
| They provide the bank infos |
| james_112233 | 08-27-2024 03:01 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ill Be Back
(Post 1245138)
Thank you everyone for their replies. I had a read through and have taken in as much as I can. I understand that there have been quite a lot of differing opinions about what will happen. Of course none of us will truly know until next year.
I believe that Etsy have began sending emails to sellers requesting them to upload tax id's/national insurance numbers by next month. Ebay may be heading in the same way in the future.
I've read the stories about eBay sellers who have not registered for self employment and turning over hundreds of thousands per year. They got penalised and had to pay penalties. These were the ones who were caught out by HMRC.
What do you guys reckon will happen in this scenario. I have 4 ebay stores. All legit details in my name. Store A, B, C and D.
Store A is registered as a ltd company. It declares everything and pays taxes. All payments go into one business account.
Store B, C and D are undeclared and payments go into 3 different bank accounts. When asked for Tax ID's. If I were to add the same UTR/national insurance number to stores B,C and D but still not declare will this flag up as an issue.
I understand that the answer seems obvious but I am hoping that they only go after people who have not registered at all. Most of the stories are from people who don't declare anything.
Please let me know what you guys think.
| I think a lot of people are in that exact scenario and this new A.I implementation at HMRC is there to catch them out.
Your income from Stores B, C and D that you don't pay tax on will flag up immediately but I think it won't be dealt with until a case worker gets round to it first. But I agree they will go after those that aren't even registered as self employed / directors of a LTD first rather than penalise those that are.
Your income from stores B, C, D could fully well be you getting rid of items at your house ... but then again if the turnover is ridiculously high it will raise questions. |
| agent006140 | 08-30-2024 07:24 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
If this is USA,then the sales venues (amzn,ebay,etsy) will send a copy of your gross sales to you and IRS,the gross sales will include stores B,C,D .
So this would be a flag for IRS.
How does it work for UK,does Ebay send your sales data to the government?
If one is audited by IRS in US,the agent would ask to see your bank statements for last 2 years,he will find bank to bank transfer ,then he wants to see the statements from the other bank,this is how they trace your activities.
Any deposits which is not pension,govt or private,inheritance,insurance claims,tax refund would be considered your income, |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 05:48 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Can't believe it's September tomorrow and they still aren't hitting all private sellers for info.
Either they think leaving it until the last minute will be a breeze and everyone will comply or they have resigned themselves to the fact that many private sellers will simply stop selling and are squeezing out every last drop of sales.
Maybe their data shows that the majority of private sellers aren't going to hit the threshold and the numbers aren't as big as I'm assuming.
Who knows? They will have their reasons for leaving it until the last minute. They're not alone in taking their time.
Gonna be fun when it does happen... |
| murdered_by_ebay | 08-31-2024 07:29 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
there is a grace period of one year so they will ask next year |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 08:30 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
|
| murdered_by_ebay | 08-31-2024 01:09 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
the first reports from the UK would be due january 2025 , one year grace period would have to allow one more year otherwise it would not be a grace period |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 01:23 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay
(Post 1246431)
the first reports from the UK would be due january 2025 , one year grace period would have to allow one more year otherwise it would not be a grace period
| Are due in January 2025.
Like I said, we're all ready in the grace period. Plenty of posts on the official forum and other mainstream websites discussing this. There's even posts on this forum in 2023 asking what awaits sellers in 2024.
Do you have a reliable source that the ebay link above is incorrect and reporting wont begin until later? When is later? |
| Freakzilla | 08-31-2024 02:11 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
We're not actually in the grace period. That would be after January next year, as that's when the first submission should be made buy the marketplaces.
It's all stated on the HMRC website. Have a search.
The grace period is for the marketplaces to collect the info for sellers registered before this year. The same data will be reported albeit later. |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 02:48 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1246433)
We're not actually in the grace period. That would be after January next year, as that's when the first submission should be made buy the marketplaces.
It's all stated on the HMRC website. Have a search.
The grace period is for the marketplaces to collect the info for sellers registered before this year. The same data will be reported albeit later.
| Happy to be corrected....even happier if I can squeeze out a few more private account sales before it 'get serious'. I won't be supplying NI numbers for all my accounts.
I can't find anything on the HMRC website explaining ebay have been given a grace period extending into 2025 to contradict ebays official stated position that in Jan 2025 they will be reporting to HMRC as per the link I posted earlier.
If anyone can find it that would be appreciated. :thumb: |
| murdered_by_ebay | 08-31-2024 03:40 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
all this was already discussed here , UK delayed the implementation by one year comparing to the EU so that the first reports would be for 2024 in january 2025
all sellers registered before 2024 get a grace period of one year so that they would not need to be reported before january 2026 |
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 04:05 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay
(Post 1246441)
all this was already discussed here , UK delayed the implementation by one year comparing to the EU so that the first reports would be for 2024 in january 2025
all sellers registered before 2024 get a grace period of one year so that they would not need to be reported before january 2026
| I've searched the forum and cannot find any mention of 2026 other than one unverified comment by you. Nobody else has mentioned 2026. Can you give me any external link or maybe a link to the HMRC confirmation Freakzilla mentioned?
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate ebays position is anything other than that which they've officially stated on the link I gave.
All it would take it for someone to provide a link, I'm clearly incapable of finding it for myself..... :) |
| Freakzilla | 08-31-2024 05:49 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
We have discussed this to death here. Every month or so someone new jumps in and wants everything repeated again. It's all on the forum and searchable on google. I, and others have spent hours looking for it and found it all, so it can't be that hard. https://www.taylorwessing.com/en/ins...ital-platforms
This took 10 seconds to find, and I'd already posted it here, as well as the link to the HMRC one. Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Blue_Sky
(Post 1246443)
I've searched the forum and cannot find any mention of 2026 other than one unverified comment by you. Nobody else has mentioned 2026. Can you give me any external link or maybe a link to the HMRC confirmation Freakzilla mentioned?
Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate ebays position is anything other than that which they've officially stated on the link I gave.
All it would take it for someone to provide a link, I'm clearly incapable of finding it for myself..... :)
| |
| Freakzilla | 08-31-2024 05:56 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
|
| Mr_Blue_Sky | 08-31-2024 06:48 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Thank you for the information, it's appreciated. I can assure you I did try and find some kind of verification for myself and the links you provided did not appear on my searches. |
| Ill Be Back | 10-14-2024 07:02 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_112233
(Post 1246187)
I think a lot of people are in that exact scenario and this new A.I implementation at HMRC is there to catch them out.
Your income from Stores B, C and D that you don't pay tax on will flag up immediately but I think it won't be dealt with until a case worker gets round to it first. But I agree they will go after those that aren't even registered as self employed / directors of a LTD first rather than penalise those that are.
Your income from stores B, C, D could fully well be you getting rid of items at your house ... but then again if the turnover is ridiculously high it will raise questions.
| Thank you for your response. I assume that you are in a similar position. What are your plans with this. With my stores B, C and D they make around 2 to 3 hundred a week. So turnover is still quite high |
| Freakzilla | 12-12-2024 06:22 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
What has everyone done if anything regarding this? I don't want to go through all the things we've discussed here hundreds of time, but I'm not sure about a few things still:
1) We know sellers who were registered before this year have a one year grace period where marketplaces don't have to report our sales until 2026, but will sellers who were registered pre 2024 have their 2024 and 2025 sales reported in January 2026, or just sales figures for 2025?
2) What happens if you don't supply the marketplaces with NI number, or you was suspended during the year. I know the marketplaces can suspend, but will they supply partial date to HMRC? I know HMRC can fine each marketplace £100 for each sellers data that isn't supplied on time.
If you're running stealth and the data is supplied to HMRC bank account is the easiest way for them to find out who the account belongs to. Still loads we don't know, but would be interested in thoughts on my points above. |
| james_112233 | 12-13-2024 08:09 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1250833)
What has everyone done if anything regarding this? I don't want to go through all the things we've discussed here hundreds of time, but I'm not sure about a few things still:
1) We know sellers who were registered before this year have a one year grace period where marketplaces don't have to report our sales until 2026, but will sellers who were registered pre 2024 have their 2024 and 2025 sales reported in January 2026, or just sales figures for 2025?
2) What happens if you don't supply the marketplaces with NI number, or you was suspended during the year. I know the marketplaces can suspend, but will they supply partial date to HMRC? I know HMRC can fine each marketplace £100 for each sellers data that isn't supplied on time.
If you're running stealth and the data is supplied to HMRC bank account is the easiest way for them to find out who the account belongs to. Still loads we don't know, but would be interested in thoughts on my points above.
| Legacy account holder so haven't been asked yet.
I don't think anyone really has a clue until a year or two down the line.
I would like those who have already provided their N.I to chime in. |
| degsey69 | 12-14-2024 05:59 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
I think that if you use a bank account that DWP pay into for pensions, benefits etc, you will be screwed as they will be monitoring these accounts from January for benefits fraud. If your stealth or personal account is paying into a bank account where DWP is making payments into, open a separate account in another bank and switch payments into there.
If you are not asked for your NI then that’s good but when they do after a while your account will be suspended if not supplied. If a stealth account put a false number in to see if they can check its validity.
I believe that small players will be avoided in the reporting and the bigger personal accounts will be pushed into a business account so a self employment declaration is needed with the IRS. |
| murdered_by_ebay | 12-14-2024 03:17 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
this here is not USA , everyone above the threshold will be reported , ebay will not be collecting business docs like amazon as this is not required by law
it does not matter whether account is business or personal , it is reported depending on the turnover
with benefits they have access to bank accounts and can see where people have accounts so that opening in a separate bank will not be that useful |
| degsey69 | 12-14-2024 08:29 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1250892)
IRS?
Is that what UK called its tax agency?
| We call them worse than that,it actually His Majesties Revenue and Customs |
| gerald | 12-15-2024 05:22 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by degsey69
(Post 1250899)
We call them worse than that,it actually His Majesties Revenue and Customs
| It's actually 'His Majesty's Revenue and Customs' :) |
| Freakzilla | 12-16-2024 02:49 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
I just received an email from Etsy to say they will be sharing he sales data for this year in January 2025. They obviously aren't using the grace period for existing sellers. |
| steve70000 | 12-17-2024 07:01 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
yes i just got a few e-mails...
The United Kingdom Model Rules for Reporting by Platform Operators with respect to Sellers in the Sharing and Gig Economy (“MRDP”) legally requires marketplaces like Etsy to collect, verify, and report sellers’ details and their quarterly sales transactions to UK tax authorities on an annual basis if you reach the reportable threshold.
Etsy must send your information to the relevant tax authorities if:
You complete 30 or more transactions in a calendar year
or
You make €2,000 (£1,700) or more on physical goods sales after taxes and fees in a calendar year
or
You had made any sales of made-to-order digital items in a calendar year
If your shop meets or exceeds the threshold in 2024, Etsy must share your taxpayer information and sales details for 2024 with the UK tax authorities in January 2025. You’ll receive a form in your Shop Manager with your sales information for 2024 at that time.
Please take a moment to review and either provide or update your information, including your name, address, tax ID etc, to ensure everything is correct. If your information is up to date, there’s nothing you need to do. Not providing current information or providing incorrect information may result in your shop being paused through Holiday Mode until updated. |
| Freakzilla | 12-19-2024 11:18 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
TikTok Shop have said they want NI number by May. Which is odd considering I'm a new seller to the marketplace this year and they should be reporting my sales by the end of next month. |
| smhclfc | 12-20-2024 05:47 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
There's so much uncertainty at this point and really until later this year, we just won't know. But let's face it, there will be hundreds of thousands of accounts (probably millions) across numerous marketplaces. A significant number of those accounts will not have tax details. How the HMRC go about this will be interesting. It will also be interesting how the various marketplaces go about supplying information to the HMRC for those accounts that haven't provided tax details. At some point, humans and not computers will have to try work their way through it and you can imagine the logistics of that. |
| Freakzilla | 12-20-2024 10:44 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
I asked HMRC anonymously if Marketplaces had to report sales data for legacy customers for 2024 and there response was "Whilst the marketplace may not report the sales, you are still required to report your income for the tax year in which it is received." |
| james_112233 | 12-20-2024 08:12 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1251195)
I asked HMRC anonymously if Marketplaces had to report sales data for legacy customers for 2024 and there response was "Whilst the marketplace may not report the sales, you are still required to report your income for the tax year in which it is received."
| As soon as you get asked for your tax ID you can assume they will report it |
| Freakzilla | 12-20-2024 08:25 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Exactly, but will they report anyway without the info and take the £100 fine?! Will they report legacy sellers info for 2024?! HMRC don't even seem to know... Quote:
Originally Posted by james_112233
(Post 1251207)
As soon as you get asked for your tax ID you can assume they will report it
| |
| james_112233 | 12-21-2024 10:06 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1251208)
Exactly, but will they report anyway without the info and take the £100 fine?! Will they report legacy sellers info for 2024?! HMRC don't even seem to know...
| If it's not a lot of extra work for them then they probably will report it. But I can't see HMRC penalising them as long as platforms are submitting something at the very least. |
| murdered_by_ebay | 12-21-2024 10:59 AM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1251208)
Exactly, but will they report anyway without the info and take the £100 fine?! Will they report legacy sellers info for 2024?! HMRC don't even seem to know...
| it is much easier , they collect info and report all sellers where the info is complete , all other sellers are restricted from selling until they provide info
HMRC guidelines clearly state that marketplaces do not need to verify the data beyond industry standards
although on amazon anything is possible as they already demand more details than required by law , more than high street banks require |
| Freakzilla | 12-21-2024 02:09 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Legislation states they will be find £100 for each incomplete sellers info. Quote:
Originally Posted by james_112233
(Post 1251235)
If it's not a lot of extra work for them then they probably will report it. But I can't see HMRC penalising them as long as platforms are submitting something at the very least.
| |
| Freakzilla | 12-21-2024 02:12 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
The only thing I'm bothered about now is if marketplaces will report sales data for legacy customers for 2024, and we won't know for over a year! Quote:
Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay
(Post 1251242)
it is much easier , they collect info and report all sellers where the info is complete , all other sellers are restricted from selling until they provide info
HMRC guidelines clearly state that marketplaces do not need to verify the data beyond industry standards
although on amazon anything is possible as they already demand more details than required by law , more than high street banks require
| |
| murdered_by_ebay | 12-21-2024 05:34 PM |
Re: HMRC reporting of 2024
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakzilla
(Post 1251249)
The only thing I'm bothered about now is if marketplaces will report sales data for legacy customers for 2024, and we won't know for over a year!
| you can assume they will if NI has already been added
over year? they would need to report next month |
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