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Am I out $500?
 

I have had my ebay account for 10 years and have almost 400 positive feedback. Almost entirely from buying, only a handful of sales.

So we got an apple ipad as an early christmas gift and decided to sell it to pay medical bills. We listed it and the final price ended up being $590 (but subtract ebay/paypal fees and shipping ended up at $500). We waited 3 days and the middle east (Belarus) person finally paid through paypal. I was worried he wouldn't pay then we wouldn't have enough time to re-sell before Christmas.

Since I had to work for the next few days and I wanted to get it shipped right away I sent DH to send it. Auction closed 12/7, and it was shipped 12/11. DH misunderstood and shipped it 1st class international package - which should take 10 days - instead of priority. Buyer requested customs declaration of $150 (he said to list it on customs as "tablet pc", and to ship to his mom's house to avoid import taxes.

So it's been a month and he says it hasn't arrived. What do I do? He just emailed me this morning. We still have about 10 days until the 45 day maximum for filing a dispute. I have a receipt and customs declaration form saying it's worth $150.

If ebay forces a refund then I'm out a $500 computer plus $100 in shipping ebay and paypal fees right? That's not even remotely fair or something we can afford.

I closed my paypal account last week after 2 years of trying to get my name updated after a marriage name change. Ebay is not linked to a paypal account anymore and I don't have any other payment methods on file for ebay.

From what I understand, if he says it didn't arrive I have no way to prove it and the dispute process will default to him winning right? He did have me ship it to a different address. If I don't have any payment method on file they can't take money from me right? I really don't care about keeping my ebay account in good standing since I use it now and again for buying things (maybe once a month). It would be nice to keep the great feedback 100% positive, almost 400... but ebay isn't a big deal to me, I just don't want to lose the $500. What should I do?

The buyer contacted me this morning explaining in his broken English that it hadn't arrived and that he kindly requests a refund. I haven't responded back yet, but I don't think I can string him along into missing the 45 day deadline since he mentioned resolving this before then. I can go to the post office and try and see if they can track it down or something but that seems unlikely.

You have tracking with signature? If you sold it via eb ay with pa yp al, that's what you need to be somewhat protected. Anything else will not be accepted by pa yp al.

Edit: You shipped it to a different address than that registered on pp? That's doubly hard to hear.

Few of us have been there but from my first impression, you are in a soup with this one.

Like I said, I don't sell often on ebay, in fact it's probably been 2 years since I have. For a while there I bought and sold a lot of things that I collected on a band, hence the lots of feedback - but that's like 8 years ago. Nothing like this ever came up, and the rules have changed so much since then.

Item was sent to his mothers house and customs declaration of $150 to avoid taxable importing on his end.

No, it didn't have tracking/signature confirmation. DH spent an hour waiting in line and they said his only option was to send it first class... he tried to get tracking but that isn't available to Belarus with first class.

The PP account was deleted last week from an unrelated saga of trying to get my name changed from 2 years ago. PP isn't linked to eba anymore... so is there a way they can remove the money from me if he files a dispute and I lose? If that happens then I'm out a $500 computer and $100 in fees - we have no way to afford that. I have no idea if he's trying to scam me, but I would feel bad if he's paying for a computer and not getting it. We are going to have to pay $200 a month for health insurance and at least $3000 in hospital bills to deliver baby - money we don't have. I wouldn't mind coming up with a fair resolution or partial refund... but it sounds like if he decides to he can force a full refund and I have no recourse.

Just closing PP wont help if it was linked to a CC and/or bank. Those too need to be closed as PayPal still has access to them. And will forever

If you want to make sure they cant get at your money the bank account and credit card have to go

these items are often bought by scammers, a chargeback or not received dispute may ensue, even a SNAD. Was buyer low feedback or newly made account? Belarus, does not sound good. 45 days is the deadline for SNAD only, he has 6 months for not received and you have no proof of tracking, and you would definately lose. It does not sound good right now.....

As for closing the paypal, you could close bank and close card, but then your paypal balance would go negative and I assume your paypal is in your real details?
paypal send debt collectors for monies they deem sufficient - $590? borderline, you may escape by not replying, denying all knowlege, cancelling phone etc.

Sounds really awful. Badly mishandled from a seller's pov. So many errors.
Closing paypal too seems unusual. Will not look good from their pov.


Just because you deleted it, paypal may still try to use it. If the buyer ends up with a refund which is more than likely, then you will have more problems. paypal is not a charity.
'Fair resolution' would be the item in the buyer's hand.

If the buyer does this thro' ebay, then you are gone. ebay will side with them from the get-go.

I might sound awful: but you made a contract with a buyer & it has not worked. Be looking towards refunding sooner rather than later. :peace:

You're in a pickle, but you made a mistake accepting a bid from a buyer in Belarus.
They're enough buyers on Ebay to not have to worry about sending an iPad to a buyer in Belarus. The scammers are often the high bidders because they know in the end they're not paying.
BTW I have good friends here in the U.S. that are from Belarus, and I have friend in Belarus that I "skype" with regularly. Even THEY wouldn't ever send an Ebay item that valuable to a bidder in their own country. Why? Because they know the risk. On the other hand I have sent packages to Belarus because the stuff I'm sending isn't worth a scammers attention. Apple stuff is GOLDEN in Belarus.
Even if the buyer is honest customs is a mine field in many countries. It's never worth the risk for an extra incrimental bid.
P.S. I wouldn't say that Belarus is the Middle East...it's next to Russia (part of the old USSR)...Bela-russia some of my friends call it.

I dont even ship to Canada anymore, had too many wheres my stuff emails. They just didn't understand it takes a little longer because of customs, so I did away with international shipping. Too many hassles. But Belerus, you have to be out of your mind to send an Apple product over there. Too risky.

On the other hand, this may, in the rare occasion, be an absolute honest buyer, and in good conscience, you have to honor your commitment. Either refund, or send another ipad. Just the risk, and cost of doing business.

Belarus? Dunno. Probably a scammer. Yes, maybe he is honest. If he is, he will wait longer to see if he gets it. Of course, you should have sent it via a semi-trackable method like USPS Express Mail Int'l.

This is just heartbreaking. I'm 6 months pregnant and have been crying about this all day. I'm not a business, I don't have another one to send, or $600 laying around for them to refund to him. In fact my nausea and morning sickness has been so bad that I had to quit my job and for 3 months we've only had 1 income and completely depleted our savings. This money was a godsend to pay for prenatal doctor visits and buy a crib - we do not have money laying around to refund... and this would mean we're out a $500 computer and $100 in fees. If he hasn't received it then it isn't fair to him either, but I have no way to know if he's scamming.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm heartbroken learning of all these mistakes now. I don't know what to do. Lesson has definitely been learned - don't trust anyone.

It sounds like any dispute he would win and there's nothing I can do.

His account was opened in 2002 and he has 5 positive feedback including a $200 item.

Item was shipped 4 weeks ago. I can go to the post office tomorrow and find out if they can do anything.

I closed my paypal account last week because I have been trying for 2 years to get my married name changed. Everything else I have has been updated, but PP just sucks with this. So the plan was to re-open a new account with new name. I don't use paypal or ebay much so I don't care if they ban me or whatever.

I don't mind working out a partial refund perhaps... but if he demands it they can force a full refund. Is there anything I can do to keep that full amount from being taken from me? I don't mind closing the savings account linked to it since it's already been depleted. I don't think I am willing to close my main CC that is also linked. Thank you for your help and suggestions so far.

I sincerely feel bad for you...no question. Since it's possible your buyer is honest, and I've had packages delivered a month after being sent to certain countries, your best recourse it to stay in constant touch with him and prolong this as long as possible...hoping the package will arrive. It just might get there. It absolutely does happen.
Tell him something about your predicament and he should understand if he's on the up-and-up. Even if he is a scammer you never know...he may feel bad enough to admit the package has arrived.
Hopefully it's just a slow delivery and it will get there any day....but don't even think of sending him another....that's not even an option.

Try and keep this rational if you can. I imagine the stress is difficult. But best to think as calmly as you can. Remember one important thing: Nobody out there you talk to will help or care. no matter what you tell them. Its crappy, but a fact. You are the only one that can help your self out.

Futile. They can not do anything for you at all. A wasted trip, sorry. With no tracking its impossible to know where it is and if it does or does not get delivered. Thats just how it is. Nobody can help with this and nobody will know where it is

Doesn't matter and its never really closed. If buyer files a cliam they WILL charge your bank/credit card. I can not stress this enough. The only way, and I mean ONLY way to stop them from taking money from you is to change bank account and credit card numbers. This you need to do tomorrow if you want any of this to stop

The phone was not lost. One of two things. Its slow because of the holidays or the buyer is a scammer

Convince him to wait longer. Tell him the post office told you 6 weeks because of he holidays. If he waits it will likely show up. If he is a scammer he wont care anyway and will go for a chargeback to get the phone for free

Tell him to wait and close your bank and credit card info. And then all you can do is wait it out and hope he is not a scammer. Phone will make it, but slow to be certain.

Protect yourself, and do it now

Think of two end games here:
1. he is a scammer and you do not want him to get your money -Close accounts
2. he's real and phone will make it in a couple weeks anyway, so everyone wins. So closing your accounts does not hurt him. It protects you

I'll say it again as its the only thing in all this that matters:
Protect yourself, and do it now

Thank you for the suggestions and help. It was sent on 12/11 so being 4 weeks out it's possible it will arrive soon. I didn't think the post office could do anything, my husband said he was told something about them being able to use the customs tracking number if there is a problem... so it's at least worth trying, and may buy more time for package to arrive. How long can international first class package from USA to Belarus take (over the holidays)?

My ebay acct links to paypal only (no other financial info), and paypal was associated with my savings and main credit card. So my best bet would probably be to close both of these. But my bank also has our checking, another back up credit card, DH's savings account etc... do I need to worry about these other accounts at our same financial institution?

I have another old paypal account I haven't used in a long time (a non-premiere one that doesn't charge fees), and that is associated with our checking account. Is that one in jeopardy too?

Not to be flippant but shipping to his mom's house avoids import taxes? That's would be a funny statement if this situation was a little less sad....hopefully it will end well though.

Man,,,,I Do Not know about this,,,,So You say that you are NOT Normally a seller,,,
So the First thing is Why did you go OUT Of your Way to Sell Internationally???,,,What,,The U.S.A Does not have enough Ipad Buyers to get a Good Price???,,,,,,

Next your PayPal account was "Deleted" Because of a Name Change,,,Did I Understand that Correctlt???

And then this about the Post Office telling you that First Class is the "ONLY" option for $100.00,,,,Priority International Medium Flat Rate Box to Anywhere in the World only $45.50,,I Use it all the Time,,,The Clerk at the Post office Did not Know that???

There is a LOT Going on Here,,,But if your paypal Account is "Deleted" well as wasSuggested above Just "Delete" any other Account associated with that Paypal,,,,

I shipped a package to Europe on December 2 by priority mail international and it arrived on January 10 so you don't have to worry about the package not being delivered.

Well I would relax some. This is a tough time to send things. I have a female friend in Russia that I bought a Iphone for. USPS said it would take 3-7 days for it to arrive. It took almost a month.

Next if I was you I would change my CC and Bank with ebay. If he files a case and wins then ebay will refund him. They will add that to your balance. If you don't have the money now you can pay ebay back at a later time. If your not selling though you could just start a new account and leave it alone.

Also I might be wrong but just because you declare something as 150 dollars doesn't mean you can't get 500 dollars of insurance. When I sent my girls Iphone I declared it as phone 100 dollars. I bought the max amount of insurance on it though. As far as I know customs has no way to know how much insurance was paid on the item. Even if they did that wouldn't be your problem. I wouldn't send a expensive item in the mail without having it insured for most of its value. International buyers should have to pay for shipping. I would make them pay for DHL. The reality is it would cost him a ton more money to buy a Ipad in Belarus. If your going to send it to him he can at least pay for DHL.

I recently, some of you may remember my annoyed post, cancelled a transaction for expensive item, to a non verifed relatives address, it was not worth the hassle. Just a personal point, you are pregnant and your hormones make you more tearful, I am not being patronizing - I know it from experience! I think this is a scam, and even if it did not start as one, you have put temptation in to his lap by not tracking it and sending to a different and therefore, non paypal verified address. This is an important time for you, do not let it get spoiled by this, it hurts to lose this money, but if you continue in this forum you will learn how to sell successfully and avoid pitfalls and make x10 that money back, see it as an opportunity, I lost my accounts, I used them for a little extra income and would not have continued with ebay had I not joined the forum, now I have several accounts, and 3 of them are powersellers, alot of people have dragged their sorry butts here when things went wrong on ebay/amazon and now are doing very well....

While I am not openingly condoning this action, if you are so concerned about the amount then just as Slapped has said, you close everything related to your pa yp al to avoid them backcharging.

Now this will not save you from creditors and collections but it avoids immediate actions that pp can do.

I am also sorry to say that your post does raise a lot of questions. But a lesson learned is also valuable. Wish you all the best for the future.

I would not ship anything that expensive internationally. PERIOD!

Thank you to everyone that has been helping me with this. I have definitely learned a lot!

I did figure out that I can track it at usps with the customs number and it says it's still in transit and it was processed out of NY on 12/17. So hopefully with the holidays that means it's just slow. And the buyer has been very patient so maybe he is legit... but I closed my accounts just in case. Hopefully it will arrive soon and he's honest. Everyone here has been really helpful and I definitely appreciate it.

Everyone being suspicious of this woman's post-please don't be. It's obvious that she wasn't trying to do anything shady so don't make her feel like she was. I really believe she's being 100% honest. If you're not selling on ebay for an income, you're not really familiar with the ins and outs of what you should and shouldn't do. For the future:

1. Don't bother to ship anything international unless you are willing to spend the amount to send Priority or Express, which right now starts at $26. The ONLY way you can get tracking for international packages is to ship this way.
2. NEVER ship to an address other than the paypal confirmed address. US or international-you are not protected by the seller protection policy if you do (normally ebay and PP rules side with the buyer no matter what, but believe me, from experience, if you ship to the confirmed address and have tracking proving it was delivered, they WILL side with you).
3. State this in your listings so you don't have problems with not accompanying their requests-they'll leave you negative feedback if they ask you to do something and you say no. So just state it up front.

Hope things work out for you but yes, it does sound like a scam. I would think anything more obvious would be Nigeria. I'm sorry :(

That's great news! I'm thinking now that this is going to turn out fine. Just don't send any more iPad's to Belarus! I think you already know this though ;-)

You can't track it, it only updates the first leg of the initial drop off. Like the sort facility. after that, no updates. doesn't matter which customs form # you used.
1st class can be sent registered mail for $12. So next time, pay the $12 and i find it hard to believe your "DH" is telling the truth, the post office tries to sell you everything. If he wanted some sort of tracking, they would of said. REGISTERED or EMS

It is only updated, in-country eg in the US, after that it goes to Belarus postal system.

fingers crossed for you, and please update us either way, we need good news for 2011!!

BTW I am absolutely NOT suspicious of this post, its just forum has to be careful that scammers do not post a question to get info, but the mods allowed it and that is because they can see its genuine.

Most important thing is the health of your baby. This is just money and material items which you will recover from. Don't stress out anymore or have someone you know take over this situation. Your days should be spent eating and sleeping as well as possible and being with family.

Sucks...but it sounds like a refund is on the verge of this cliff for you.

UPDATE

Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this and provided insight.

Buyer opened a dispute and requested a full refund last week. I opened an international inquiry with the post office that indicate it's in the Belarus postal system or in customs (possibly delayed because it was marked under value). I responded explaining this and offered a full refund of shipping $55 because I feel awful it has taken this long. Previously he has demanded a full refund and explained how stupid it was to send it first class (yes I know). But today he wrote back and said that if I send him $55 shipping refund he will close the case.

I'm waiting to see if he will put this in writing in the dispute confirming it was received... or seeing if it's another angle for scamming more money. I've explained our financial situation and how losing all that money would leave us deciding between paying insurance premiums for baby on the way or buying food (which is why we were selling valuables in the first place). So I'm hoping it arrived safely and his conscience is coming through. We are now certified as therapeutic foster parents, so once we have a placement we will be able to replace some of the lost income from losing my job.

I have learned A LOT and know to not sell internationally again and only ship with tracking/insurance/confirmation. Thank you to the ebay suspension forums and everyone that has provided insight, support, suggestions, and even pointed out the mistakes - sometimes you gotta hear your own stupidity to get it to sink in. I'm 6 months along in the pregnancy today and feeling optimistic to put this behind us and look forward to the new stage in our life.

Oh and an update on the shipping...

We went back to the post office, and the same lady was working there and remembered my husband. She looked absolutely stunned and shocked we were having problems and said it should have been there within 10 days. She remembers he tried to get tracking and delivery confirmation but she reassured him it wasn't necessary. Her explanation was confusing but it made it sound like first class was the only option unless he wanted to drive around hoping for a priority box before Christmas and wait in other long lines. So I give DH a little bit of credit for trying to get delivery confirmation and tracking and being told that was impossible (he should have persisted, but at least he tried). This same lady gave me the information for the international inquiry and told me they would be able to track down exactly where it is with the customs number... she is obviously a little under-informed.

I still would try to delay him as long as possible...even a few more days might allow the package to get there.
BTW refunding $55 wouldn't allow him to scam you for any more money than you already have at risk. That would come from the total he already paid you. Make sure you do a partial refund ONLY from his original payment. Don't pay him any other way.
If he is a scammer he won't close the dispute after getting the $55 dollars partial refund. This case just doesn't seem good. If he is honest why is he asking for a refund of $55.00? Makes no sense to me...in other words he will lose almost $500.00 and not have the ipad?
Does he want you to "paypal" him $55.00 directly to his account? If so that's a big NO. He is trying to hit you up for more money...as I said ONLY refund (and I'm not saying you should) directly from his original payment.

What you need to do is propose the solution from the dispute directly. Propose a $55 partial refund to close the case. Once he clicks "agree", it's over. Don't do it any other way!!!

Just curious......

Why didn't you just return it to the store for a full refund? If it was a gift, you should of received a gift reciept, or a regular reciept in case of warranty issues. Makes more sense IMO.

It was a gift from his employer. There were a stack of at least 70 of them on the table and they handed them out to everyone. No receipt of any kind. I didn't think about returning it to the store because I didn't think they would accept it. Does apple have a good return policy? That would have made things MUUUUCH easier. Too late now though.

veggiegymrat - thank you! I have never dealt with disputes before and wasn't sure how that worked.

Gift receipts give store credit, NOT refunds.