I issued a refund, and now Ebay say buyer can keep money AND goods ???

[chopperaddict]

I have just encountered the problem of issuing a refund ( via the Ebay system) BEFORE the goods had been returned. The buyer replied to my request for the goods to be returned with "chapter and verse" on Ebay rules, and has told me that he does NOT have to return the goods now, because I issued the refund first (before he returned the goods) ?????????

Surely this is not correct, and indeed must breach some UK trading law or other. Has anyone else had this problem, and what was the final outcome, or how do I get either my payment or my goods back from this obvious con artist ?

Ian

[JamesNorth101]

Really they should return the goods still, but getting them to do so would be an altogether other matter.

This sounds like one of those cases that you will have to write off as a learning experience.

Always get your goods back before refunding in the future

[blueuk]

I am fairly certain that when a case is open there isn't an option for "refund now and still expect the item back"

I'm sure it says something along the lines of "Refund and let the buyer keep the item"

[J dub 1984]

Originally Posted by chopperaddict

I have just encountered the problem of issuing a refund ( via the Ebay system) BEFORE the goods had been returned. The buyer replied to my request for the goods to be returned with "chapter and verse" on Ebay rules, and has told me that he does NOT have to return the goods now, because I issued the refund first (before he returned the goods) ?????????

Surely this is not correct, and indeed must breach some UK trading law or other. Has anyone else had this problem, and what was the final outcome, or how do I get either my payment or my goods back from this obvious con artist ?

Ian

I'm not sure what the rules our for that faction of EBAY. In the past I had a few nasty customers who I didn't see eye to eye with and they thought if the product wasn't as described that they could just keep the item. Depending on how I was doing at the time (financially) I'd tell them to keep it depending on shipping cost or I'd send them money to return the item. If in fact the item is legitimate and not in a "gray area" where the buyer is going to make some noise and bring heat on you. I think your best option here is too weigh the risk and reward factor. Think of the long-term and not the short term. I saw another poster said, take it as a learning experience. To sum things up sometimes standing by principal and doing business with these clowns won't always end in the best resolution for the seller. Just my two cents.
Good Luck...........JB

[Exile3]

I would contact Ebay and explain the situation to them. A nice customer rep will usually oblige to sending the user an e-mail requesting he fulfill his obligation to return the item.

However, nothing will happen to him if he doesn't. What I would do is try to see if you can get them to send that e-mail and then send him a bluff saying that after speaking with Ebay and Paypal, they agreed to reverse the refund in X amount of days if the doesn't return the item. I did this in the past and it worked, but YYMV.

Hope it works out for you.

[pokerpro]

I have had this happen to me, of the same reason........what you need to do is do an information request thru eBay and get their phone number..........I have found that one phone call gets me my item back.......it totally takes them by surprise and they can;t send the item back soon enough.

[jakobrockz]

Pretty sure the options are along the lines like this:

"Add a comment and contact buyer"
"Refund now"
"Offer a partial refund"
"Request the item to be returned"

I guess you clicked refund now and eBay is not expecting the buyer to return anything.

[solefoodbk]

The simple fact is you should never refund them the money until you get the item back.

The reason being is for one you need to make sure you get it back, for two its not damaged, and for three nothing is missing.

I always say if you send them a refund without getting it back first its almost like saying "heres a present". Dishonest people won't send it back, honest people will, but the problem is the worlds filled with both...

Goodluck.

Live & learn!

[ebayfail]

I would wait for the return tracking # before I would issue any refund. No item, no refund.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by ebayfail

I would wait for the return tracking # before I would issue any refund. No item, no refund.

Could be a empty box or the wrong item. Tracking is good but its best to have the item in physical possesion.

MOST honest buyers understand this as normal businesses that operate on the internet follow the EXACT same protocol.

If I bought something off say B&H Photo and decided "I don't want this anymore" I would have to return it before ever thinking of getting my money back. They would NEVER refund me first, never ever ever.

I know we sellers on ebay can't operate fully like normal businesses but I like to relate it to them much as possible because it puts this in perspective.

P.S Ebay cannot force the buyer nor can Paypal, its soley up to the buyer at this point if they want to send the item back or not.

[J dub 1984]

Originally Posted by pokerpro

I have had this happen to me, of the same reason........what you need to do is do an information request thru eBay and get their phone number..........I have found that one phone call gets me my item back.......it totally takes them by surprise and they can;t send the item back soon enough.

One phone call lol enough said!

[ooooo.halo]

Originally Posted by blueuk

I am fairly certain that when a case is open there isn't an option for "refund now and still expect the item back"

I'm sure it says something along the lines of "Refund and let the buyer keep the item"

Im not sure about now, but in december i had a return.case and the option was that seller needed to return to me before i refunded.
Not sure if things have changed since then :-)

[ooooo.halo]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

The simple fact is you should never refund them the money until you get the item back.

The reason being is for one you need to make sure you get it back, for two its not damaged, and for three nothing is missing.

I always say if you send them a refund without getting it back first its almost like saying "heres a present". Dishonest people won't send it back, honest people will, but the problem is the worlds filled with both...

Goodluck.

Live & learn!

My only concern is that if its sent back in a different condition to what you sent it, it would go in the buyers favour anyway.
Im not sure coz mercifully ive never been in that position :-)

[Bunneh]

Originally Posted by blueuk

I am fairly certain that when a case is open there isn't an option for "refund now and still expect the item back"

I'm sure it says something along the lines of "Refund and let the buyer keep the item"

Actually there is, you just click 'accept return' and once you receive the return it allows you to refund them.

But the OP selected the wrong option.

[blueuk]

Originally Posted by Bunneh

Actually there is, you just click 'accept return' and once you receive the return it allows you to refund them.

But the OP selected the wrong option.

Well exactly.

As I said there isn't an option where you can refund AND expect the buyer to return.

Return THEN refund is the better option (in this case it seems anyway)

I always refund without requesting item back.

[chopperaddict]

Thanks so much for the range of replies. Very helpful, if a little depressing for me !

I will certainly try to get his phone # and see if I can't scare him into paying, but

I still do not understand why, as Ebay KNOW the goods have not been returned, they cannot just take the money back from him via their connection with Paypal, after all , they do that regularly to us sellers ?

I am also going to check it out with Trading Standards here in the UK to see if they can bring any pressure to bear on this thief.

Thanks again folks, very helpful.

[katty]

Originally Posted by chopperaddict

I still do not understand why, as Ebay KNOW the goods have not been returned, they cannot just take the money back from him via their connection with Paypal, after all , they do that regularly to us sellers ?

The issue with this situation is that you refunded before the buyer returned so even though ebay cannot see any sort of tracking number related to a return, they most likely just assumed you were one of those sellers that let the buyer keep the item which happens quite often.

[littleredengine07]

To be honest its best you close the case before eBay does because when you allow eBay to close the case. It counts as strike. Its retard and stupid but that eBay's way of sticking to little guys.

I hate to say this, "you have to write it off". It the cost of doing business, unless you want to start over with the eBay account.

How expensive was it?

[littleredengine07]

It has happen to me more than 3-4 times when I was doing 100k a year on ebay back in 2013.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by chopperaddict

Thanks so much for the range of replies. Very helpful, if a little depressing for me !

I will certainly try to get his phone # and see if I can't scare him into paying, but

I still do not understand why, as Ebay KNOW the goods have not been returned, they cannot just take the money back from him via their connection with Paypal, after all , they do that regularly to us sellers ?

I am also going to check it out with Trading Standards here in the UK to see if they can bring any pressure to bear on this thief.

Thanks again folks, very helpful.

As mentioned a few times, you pressed the wrong option. It's as simple as that. Ebay didn't refund the money, you did. As far as ebay is concerned, you were satisfied with the transaction, and it's done.

GO ahead and get ebay to email them, and or you try and call them