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Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Just wondering if anyone has had ebay force a return on clothing items that don't fit?

I have a buyer who bought an athletic skort size small, yesterday I get a message from her that says "Sorry I am going to need to return this, all my other skorts are size small tall and this one is just too short for me"

My listings and my return policy both state that I don't accept returns for items that don't fit and if you need measurements please ask beforehand.

Before I could respond to her first message she opens a return request and says basically the same thing, "this fits well but it's too short for me I want to return for a full refund"

So I responded through the ebay request, "I'm sorry but per the listing and my return policy I do not accept returns for items that don't fit, only if you receive the wrong item or it is not as described"

She responds back with - "This is bad business, if you don't accept my return I am going to get ebay involved and I am going to slam your ratings!"

Needless to say I'm not refunding her willingly, the only way she is going to get it is if ebay forces it. Just curious if an item not fitting is something that ebay will force? Also since she clearly threatened my ratings in the ebay request if she does leave negative feedback what do you suppose my odds of getting it removed as retaliatory feedback are?

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

are you a business seller? or personal

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I guess my account would be considered personal as I don't have a ebay store

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Was it a BIN? I'm sure you have to accept a return for a BIN.
I'm a business and i have to accept returns and thee buyer gets a full refund including originial P+P.
Don't refund her cost for returning it to you.
I get a fair few returns despite giving plenty of measurements. A lot of people assume because (say) they are a size 10 in River island jeans they think they are a size 10 in all brands of jeans.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

That's right business sellers don't have any choice, have to accept returns. Oh and just because you don't have an eBay store does not necessarily mean that your not a business seller op, you can still be either business or private, that is not what affects which type of seller you are.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

a business seller account does not mean you need have an ebay store though....

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I checked and on account type it says individual

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Yes I do.

I'm going to keep this short and sweet

Don't sell clothes on eBay and not accept returns if they don't fit

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Only way around is if the clothing is custom made, which are items I sell sometimes.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

The rule is the item must be returned in original condition including tags and packaging. If she removed the tag technically she could lose, hoooooooowever buyer is KING so they could decide against you anyways...

You could get ahead on this and call ebay and say your are being "BULLIED" by a buyer via private email and she also left nasty messages on ebay. If you call them first they often take your side...

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

And Don't Sell Clothes.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I will say women's clothing is a completely different beast. I deal mostly with men's clothing. Like you I have clear instructions about my items. I also include in big bold red letters hand measurements taken for each pc and basically say depending on the age items can fit different form year to year style to style. Please compare measurements to something you own. Sale of the item is considered final.

I have maybe one or two people who try to lie about the measurements because they didn't read every year. But when you have them there is big bold letters then there is nothing they can say. It sucks and it is time consuming to measure every item but it has saved me so many returns and headaches the last 5 years.

If you are a small seller with an individual account there is no excuse. I get messages all the time will this fit me ex: I am 5'10 and 190 pounds. I simply tell them look at the measurements provided in the listing and compare them to something you own.

And yes sometimes I do get strong armed into accepting a return because a buyer claims it fits differently. It is rare and I would rather cut my losses than risk my account a negative or something like that.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Buyer always wins any disputes. So that was a mistake of you to escalate it. To fix it, refund buyer via direct PP payment with some extra payment "to buy an icecream", ask him to close the case with the reason "return opened accidentally". ALL other options will kick your status, which is the most expensive thing in your account. Sounds like illogical, but buyer is always right, EVEN if he is not.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Report her asap, no customer should ever make a threat of giving you bad resp

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Refund 100%
If not you will wish you did

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Refund, move on, forget about it and then 3 weeks later the same thing happens again. Rinse and repeat, welcome to eBay.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Everyone please keep in mind if your listing is NOT accepting returns a buyer CANNOT return a item if it doesn't fit correctly. They do NOT win every case, that sentiment is silly.

Now if a buyer messages you saying it doesn't fit thats all you need. All you need is the buyer to admit that and you just say "buyers remorse" and your good to go. You MUST call in if they open a case. I sell clothes and I can assure you I've had enough returns that I know what I'm talking about.

Now like I said before, you deserve EVERY negative if you don't accept the return. I personally feel if you want to sell clothes you accept returns, bottom line. Its just common decency. I think we sometimes forget we sell to honest hard working people and if its used, they're just trying to get by. Why be a a$$ and not accept the return? Clothing is different than any category because it is really something that is hard to judge when buying over the internet.

Measurements alone aren't always everything. I agree with you vogeltron, I do the exact same thing you do. But I know from actually trying on shirts that are a certain measurement and it still fits big for whatever reason sometimes. Clothes are extremely subjective and its IMPOSSIBLE to sell without having returns at some point.

Again....

If you have a listing where you did NOT accept returns and a buyer messages you saying its to small or doesn't fit, tough luck IF you want to be that type of person and not accept the return. Its possible one rep might say the buyer is "right" and if that happens call back and get another rep. I guarantee you that eBay does not allow a buyer to win a case if it "doesn't fit", that's considered buyers remorse.

This is only for eBay, not paypal or chargebacks.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I win every case that I have a reason to fight for.

I dont mean this in any a bad way but I suggest you work on your communication skills or figuring out how to explain yourself better because I promise you the buyer doesn't win every case. If you think the buyer wins every case, thats why they win every case.

I win cases and get negatives and neutrals removed all the time.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I do thee same as you.
But i do have a question. Does your description include the size stated on the label?
I put the label size - say Waist 32 and leg 32 - in my description but then I quote actual hand measured size which may differ for example it could be be waist 30 or 34!
Is this correct way to or do you think it confuses buyers?

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Jeans/pants almost always run different.

Just put in the listing "the sizes are "true" based off measurements, not what the size label indicates"

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What I do is return their money first then I give them my safe return address opposed to my EB/stealth address.
Kill them with kindness with 'thanks so much for buying from us'!!!
We want as a valued return customer!!!
They think you are so very nice/honest that they turn to jello.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

sell one size fits all with no returns

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

True this can work, but keep in mind your putting it in THEIR hands if they want to scam you.

By refunding them FIRST they technically don't have to ship it back.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

It very much depends on the listing.

Something if I know something runs big or small I list as irregular. Something that is older I list as vintage. It really does depend on the item you might put the size 32 but then have (see measurement) in the listing title. I don't really deal with Jeans or Pants so I am not 100% sure the best practice. But usually something that point to checking and comparing measurements always helps.

Lots of times I always try to make it clear that items vary in age and can fit differently year to year, etc. Please check the measurements.

Even when listing on eBay try to use bold letters and different colors that jump out to emphasize certain important things. Make sure you have spacing between certain subjects like I have on this post as well. Even this is kinda of rough because lots of people use mobile phones and skip over all this today. It was much easier in the past. I can't comment on that because I am still a PC/Laptop person when it comes to buying/selling items on the internet.

Hope that helps.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

This won't work regardless

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

actually one size in certain products is a much better idea, I had no returns when I sold a huge batch of festival capes/ponchos......they were super-cute though, kept a couple for myself....

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I like this idea.
Thanks.

This week i sold a pair of jeans that were 12 short.
Short usually means 28" leg but these were 26" leg. The buyer just focused on the short and decided they would fit. She ignored the actual measurement. Needless to say they are being returned as they are too short and she is "puzzled by this because all my other jeans are short length".
I've decided to remove all the S (short) M (medium) and L (long) label jean length sizes from my descriptions.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Yeah I wouldn't bother with that, it only confuses the buyer.

We HAVE to put that in the description if we change the size because otherwise its technically a contradiction which could easily work for the buyer if they open a case.

I've measured clothing so much that I know generally if a mediums "pit to pit" is 23" its a large and so on. I never have a issue when I started doing this and prevents pretty much any return that could happen. You have to use your judgement, I guess mine has worked for me so far.

When sizes run differently its always best to take a picture of the size, not needed but I do on some clothing.

This is the best way to avoid returns which in most case is always because it doesn't fit. Anything else is technically buyers remorse OR can be considered buyers remorse with a few play on words :) Confidence works wonders when you talk to eBay reps. They're not the most intelligent people, at least if I call 5 times I'm bound to get someone who will fall pray to my B.S :heh:

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Well if anyone is curious how this turned out:

after reading everyone's advice I went ahead and accepted her return, despite the fact that it was clearly buyers remorse as she even stated in the case that "this fits well but it's too short for me" her initial message to me said the same thing that all the other items she buys are small tall and after trying a small she decided it was too short for her.

Within minutes of accepting the return (fyi ebay no longer offers the option of declining a return its, accept, partial refund or send message) she left me a negative anyway.

I called ebay since she had threatened to "slam my rating" in her messages, their response was "I understand your concern" at which point she then read me a message about how important it is to provide excellent customer service and to that for all my feedback questions I could find all my answers on the website help forums.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Not having a store doesn't mean you're a personal seller, you can be a business seller without a store.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I don't know how I say it differently but if that were my account id of gotten the feedback removed.

For one you should have called in before the return and told them your buyer threatened to leave negatives. By doing this you get the rep to notate you already called prior to the buyer leaving the feedback. Since you complied with their request I'm not sure if you still can but I know I would get it removed.

Buyers simply can't speak of feedback in any other way than positive UNLESS they don't want it used against them at a later date. Buyers have ways of working the system and so do WE. If I know something might be a problem I ALWAYS call in ahead of time. For one they love the fact you do it, and two it shows you care and that does go along way.

By calling ahead you have proof you already spoke to someone about this which is important because reps always have contradictory views. But when they see you basically predicted what was going to happen and already got the rep sympathetic to YOUR point of view the second call for removal/case overturned is just icing on the cake.

It's all about being proactive not reactive.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I guess the OP won't be in a hurry to refund her payment.

Can you give us an idea of what the feedback said?

Also i used to be able to give a follow up reply, Can you still do that?

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Returns for ridiculous reasons are a part of the clothing seller's business.

During my first 10 years at EB I sold 30K pieces of clothing, and never once won a case.

And, the only unfair feedback I ever got removed was one in which they used the "F" word.

It's better to apologize, refund, and hope they don't neg.

You can spend hours on hold and arguing with an EB rep on the phone and lose your money, get negs and get dinged stars, or sell 3 more items in the same period of time.

Which would you rather have?

Get a thick skin and learn when to move on. Keep your eye on the ball, and the ball is selling and making a profit. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Wise words from dallis.

Any negs i get - thankfully only two in two years - leads to the thought how many sales has that cost me?

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

I got a return from a buyer who said i sent the wrong size.
Measuring them on their return I see my measurements WERE right as i described. Any thoughts from you guys. I'm willing to refund his original payment but NOT his return cost.
I should probably re-read dallis wise words and refund but wondered what others thought.
Do I refund including his return postage?

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on the one hand $5-7, on the other hand bad feedback... easy call. Not that it doesn't suck...

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This is why i only supply the manufacturer size guidelines.

You and your customer both think you are right. But you may well measure it slighly differently, different positions etc.

I would refund return shipping too.

Re: Thoughts from other clothing sellers
 

Well I did not refund return payment and its been more than a week with no feedback left. If he sends me a message I'll play dumb and send him his return postage cost. The parcel did not have the return cost details on the label.