Just wanted to show you guys a message from a seller that sold me ⊗⊗⊗⊗...

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

You always have to be careful when buying on eBay. However, eBay's policy is that it is the SELLER who is responsible for making sure their items are authentic. If they are not, then eBay will likely side with you if you open a complaint.

Given that the seller says he would like to work with you and given your knowledge of watches, I would figure out what the real ones are worth in total and offer to take that amount off of the refund. If he is selling these in bulk and is not making any guarantee as to the condition of the watches, then maybe that won't work. But it is always a good thing to try to work it out without eBay getting involved.

Having said that, if the seller refuses to come to a reasonable settlement, then I think you are within your rights to open a claim with eBay. As a seller, I don't like to see other sellers getting screwed over and there ARE many unscrupulous buyers out there that will claim an item is counterfeit so they can get it for free. But you placed a bid (or used buy it now) on the assumption that the items were authentic. If they were simply not in good shape and you assumed they were in mint condition, then I would say that you were stuck. But if the items turn out to be counterfeits, then you have every right to complain.

Nobody who sells counterfeits is going to tell you they are counterfeits. And maybe this guy is honest and a couple of watches slipped by him. I'm sure it happens. But the seller should make good on it. It sounds like these items were definitely not as described. Just because someone uses clever wording in a listing does not mean that they can get away with selling counterfeits.

When I shop at Best Buy, I assume everything is authentic because no multi-billion dollar corporation would knowingly take the risk of selling counterfeits. Small time eBay sellers are another matter.

Did you check the sellers feedback? Has he been accused of selling counterfeits before? Solefoodbk is right, you can't get away with selling counterfeits just because the listing does not specify they are authentic.

Again, I WOULD try to work it out with the seller first. Filing a complaint or a chargeback should be the last resort here.

The articulate form of my response.

Thanks Jeff

I said Best Buy but you can pick any company. Obviously I see your point but my point was that its not the buyers job to ask obvious questions.

For instance if you bought a Xbox and it functioned properly but the light on the X didn't light up. Are you in the wrong because you didn't ask the seller if the X lights up?

No.....

You can't know what you don't know. Which is where the seller comes into play ....

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

Pshhh stop it GreenBean.

You and I both know you shouldn't HAVE to ask a seller if what is being sold is "real" or not. If its ⊗⊗⊗⊗ it MUST have listed as such. It is NOT the buyers responsibility, its the seller who creates the listing.

Even based off what he said makes it a clear giveaway hes lying. If he said he wanted you to message him prior to buying the lot then what would he have said?

"yes they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches"

If he says that then the whole listing is faulty regardless of what happens next. You can't list something as authentic and just maybe not use the word "authentic" and then except the buyer to deliberately ask if its real or not.

That's like going into a Best Buy and asking the sales guy if this X Box 1 is a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ because it doesn't say its real on the box.

Are you kidding? Accept what was said ON THE FORUM .

[unkown5454]

If you assume everything on EB is real, then there is no hope for you and I don't know what you are doing on this forum. This is not 1995.

Buying designer items and automatically assuming all is real, even when the price is so low it's insane, well, then you deserve every precious dollar to be sc.ammed right out from under you.

I have a ton of designer items and high-end electronics. You bet your a$$ they all came from a legit corporate store. If you cannot afford what something costs, then accept it or be happy with your coun.terf.eits.

Can we please stop assuming OP is some innocent little child now?

[vogeltron]

If an item is listed with a brand name then it pretty much assumed its legit. I see people sell certain items on eBay they don't use brand names etc. Clearly they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ but they don't imply that they are real. They are usually at to good to be true prices. Like buying a Rolex for $50. For me as both a buyer and seller anytime a brand name is used then their is justification for a case.

Personally I like to give people benefit of the doubt, but if they sold me something like that then gave me that response. I would open a Significantly not as described case and leave them negative feedback.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by unkown5454

I have a ton of designer items and high-end electronics. You bet your a$$ they all came from a legit corporate store. If you cannot afford what something costs, then accept it or be happy with your coun.terf.eits.

Can't disagree.

If the item is a fraction of the cost in a chain retail store you kinda gotta put two and two together yourself. Of course somethings due to saturation naturally are much lower on eBay than retail BUT not something like this.

It's like playing Russian Roulette and getting mad because the gun shot.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Are you kidding? Accept what was said ON THE FORUM .

I was stirring you.....

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by unkown5454

If you assume everything on EB is real, then there is no hope for you and I don't know what you are doing on this forum. This is not 1995.

Not sure what you are talking about. The early days of eBay were a haven for people selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff. I would say all the way up to about 2005. Many products went completely unregulated.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by vogeltron

Not sure what you are talking about. The early days of eBay were a haven for people selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff. I would say all the way up to about 2005. Many products went completely unregulated.

That's why sellers are the bad guys...

When I was a kid I thought eBay was just a pot of fraud. That's at least what all my friends thought too...

None of us bought anything because we thought we'd get ripped off. Hmpf

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

That's why sellers are the bad guys...

When I was a kid I thought eBay was just a pot of fraud. That's at least what all my friends thought too...

None of us bought anything because we thought we'd get ripped off. Hmpf

eBay was actually really cool back then if you were buying stuff that wasn't phaked. Actually back then most people assumed stuff was phake to be honest. It was like a garage sale so people bought knowing stuff was phake because they wanted it. People also did better jobs of taking pictures of their items and describing them etc. It was way different. I did drop $6k for a Rolex in 2004 never had a problem because you always did research on the seller, massive amounts of feedback. Could tell they were a dealer and tons of pictures. So I disagree with your comments. Stuff was always advertised as 100% Authentic, etc or triple your money back. It was different, sellers fees were like 1/3rd of what they are now.

The fact I said it was a haven for people who sold phake stuff is not same thing as saying it was a haven for shysters. I would say today's eBay is a haven for shyster buyers. Everything is geared toward them and many know how to take advantage. My master block list is like 3,000 users. Its insane.

[unkown5454]

I still disagree with the innocence and pure ignorant assumption you believe everyone should have when shopping on EB, especially with the experience and knowledge and the general topics discussed on this forum. Multiply it all by a million times when trading designer goods worth thousands.

OP has 59% longevity here and wants to claim he and his family are the masters of all things timepiece. Clearly, this is absolute horsesh*t. Who knew there were tons of fa.ke extremely high-end watches being traff.icked on the internet??????????????????????????????? Apparently, not OP and his master timepiece craftsman of a family.

[Haidukken]

You know... This reminds me why I hate certain aspects of our society.

The same way some people choose to be offended, some people clearly choose to be victims.
Not everybody, but some people just need some sort of drama in their lives, something to share, something to comment on, something to talk about... Something.

If you have 100 years of experience in your genes, have been trading watches since you were a kid and still choose to purchase act this way, where you clearly should know better, then all I can say is that its a weak move- Why not just avoid these situations if you can see them coming from a mile away?

Instead of presenting us with the little sob story of how a person is selling soemthing ⊗⊗⊗⊗ to you, you should present it as "look guys, I know I was buying ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches but somehow I still thought they were rea because I wanted to make money on them"

I'm not saying you are 100% ladybug on a sunny day, but I'm seriously questioning your reasons and thought process.

Quick question: what are the chances of you trying to get the money back, just to sell the ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and make even more money?
I get a feeling you'll do that- Otherwise you wouldn't white knight in this thread about how honest you are and how people should stop selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗.
I get a feeling the only reason you are going through the motions is because it'll make you feel a better human, once you get your money back and flip the watches that you bought.

Just to make it clear: I have NOTHING against hussle, you got to do what you got to do- Just go and go it, no need for a little drama piece in between.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

That sort of pricing seems very strange to me

You cannot pick up a real new watch that sells in a shop for $4400 for $2200 on eBay.

It is is used, then sure a 50% discount seems about right, but no way would a real watch on eBay that is new be worth 50% of what its worth in a shop. No one on eBay would sell a watch with with that much of a discount off current RRP on a regular basis. Watch dealers on eBay generally have very similar prices to watches being sold in shops. Most of the larger eBay dealers have their own shops

There is a saying on a lot of internet watch forums when it comes to buying a watch on eBay. Buy the seller not the watch.

This seems a bit like 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other

That sort of pricing is not wrong. I've bought plenty of BRAND NEW watches on ebay, for half of retail. I can do it all day long and not even flinch. If you need me to show you proof, just ask. But I'd hoped my word was enough.

That's the point of ebay tho. I know a guy that owned a store in a popular mall. Watches mostly. His rent, was $10,000 a month. His lease was up, and they upped it to $20,000 a month.

On top of that, they are dealers for the watches, and therefor provide OEM warranties, which means the watches are going to be even more expensive.

The watches on ebay, at least the ones I'm buying, come with a STORE warranty. Not that I care about warranties, seeing as watchmaker, and because I buy watches to part them out.

The shops on ebay that are priced the same as stores, almost never sell. The watches most stores sell on ebay, are ones they are trying to get rid of, so they can get a bigger allotment from the manufacturer, and they are typically considered grey market watches, because the STORE handles the warranty, and it doesn't go back to manufacturer.

And the ones that I buy, are SMALL sellers. Or someone that bought a watch new, and it's still new. Or they received a gift. Etc. I bought a brand new tag heuer a few weeks ago for 1/3 of retail. BUY IT NOW. 100% authentic too.

Originally Posted by unkown5454

I still disagree with the innocence and pure ignorant assumption you believe everyone should have when shopping on EB, especially with the experience and knowledge and the general topics discussed on this forum. Multiply it all by a million times when trading designer goods worth thousands.

OP has 59% longevity here and wants to claim he and his family are the masters of all things timepiece. Clearly, this is absolute horsesh*t. Who knew there were tons of fa.ke extremely high-end watches being traff.icked on the internet??????????????????????????????? Apparently, not OP and his master timepiece craftsman of a family.

Jesus Christ, I've never seen so many arm chair quarter backs in one place before. I don't ACTUALLY think they are all real. My point was, that ebay doesn't allow ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Therefor I have no reason to THINK it's a ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Just as I have no reason to think something at a retail store is ⊗⊗⊗⊗. BUT GUESS WHAT? They CAN be. If I have the money to risk, I'll risk it. I ASSUME they are all real, because if they are not real, I WILL find out, I WILL complain, and I WILL get my money back. Because counterfeits ARE ILLEGAL. Can you get that through your thick skull, or not?

I've been on ebay since 2000. I've bought and sold close to $1,000,000 in watches and watch parts. I'm not new to the game. I was posting the guys response, to show what liars some sellers could be, because I thought it was hilarious. I'm not ignorant, and I'm not glassy eyed. I'm here to make money like the rest of us. Have I been ripped off? Sure. So has everyone and their mother.

Originally Posted by Haidukken

You know... This reminds me why I hate certain aspects of our society.

The same way some people choose to be offended, some people clearly choose to be victims.
Not everybody, but some people just need some sort of drama in their lives, something to share, something to comment on, something to talk about... Something.

If you have 100 years of experience in your genes, have been trading watches since you were a kid and still choose to purchase act this way, where you clearly should know better, then all I can say is that its a weak move- Why not just avoid these situations if you can see them coming from a mile away?

Instead of presenting us with the little sob story of how a person is selling soemthing ⊗⊗⊗⊗ to you, you should present it as "look guys, I know I was buying ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches but somehow I still thought they were rea because I wanted to make money on them"

I'm not saying you are 100% ladybug on a sunny day, but I'm seriously questioning your reasons and thought process.

Quick question: what are the chances of you trying to get the money back, just to sell the ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and make even more money?
I get a feeling you'll do that- Otherwise you wouldn't white knight in this thread about how honest you are and how people should stop selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗.
I get a feeling the only reason you are going through the motions is because it'll make you feel a better human, once you get your money back and flip the watches that you bought.

Just to make it clear: I have NOTHING against hussle, you got to do what you got to do- Just go and go it, no need for a little drama piece in between.

God , seriously? Sob story? I'm crying? I'm complaining? I was showing people! Hell, I didn't need advice. I appreciate the advice I was given. I also like getting EXTRA information from you guys, in case I missed something. I love learning things. And I DID learn things from this thread. But it wasn't a ****ing sob story.

And I'll be getting my money back, sure. But I don't plan on flipping anything, because I'd RETURN what I bought. I don't return ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff. But do you think I'm going to make money selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ stuff? No. It goes in the trash, or I give it to a friend. I asked for a REFUND in a RETURN. Now, if he fought and fought, and made me open a dispute, and still fought, then perhaps it would have ended up with me keeping my money and the watches, because ebay doesn't allow trafficking of counterfeits, and I was trying to keep this out of ebays eyes BECAUSE I'M A GOOD GUY! And I hate ebay...

Oh and, NO, I did not know I was buying ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches. Where the hell did I say that? I was buying watches genuinely expecting them to be real. He's a long time seller, with a good reputation, and I could CLEARLY see that the watches were real, for the most part. I say most part, because there were 30 of them. The ones I saw, I KNEW were real, which made me confident in buying the items. I can not be expected to question and nit pick every damn watch in the 30 watch lot. I was bidding, I won it. Period.

Originally Posted by solefoodbk

Can't disagree.

If the item is a fraction of the cost in a chain retail store you kinda gotta put two and two together yourself. Of course somethings due to saturation naturally are much lower on eBay than retail BUT not something like this.

It's like playing Russian Roulette and getting mad because the gun shot.

It's not a fraction of the cost, first off. Second off, non of you guys seem to actually understand how retail prices on watches work. Get some education, and look up invicta. They sell for $500-1500 in a retail store. I have one, that I can't get rid of for $150 on ebay. THIS IS HOW THIS MARKET WORKS. Retail stores have overhead. They pay MORE for the watches.

Here's a little story for you actually. I have another jeweler friend. Family friend ( mostly my dads). One day, he offered me a chance to get some watches from the manufacturer through him. I was wide eyed. That was an awesome proposition. He told me the price, and my jaw dropped.

He buys watches from the manufacturer, FOR MORE THAN I SELL THEM ON EBAY.

And I AM Russian, so I guess it makes sense I'd play Russian roulette huh? My people did invent it lol

Originally Posted by vogeltron

If an item is listed with a brand name then it pretty much assumed its legit. I see people sell certain items on eBay they don't use brand names etc. Clearly they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ but they don't imply that they are real. They are usually at to good to be true prices. Like buying a Rolex for $50. For me as both a buyer and seller anytime a brand name is used then their is justification for a case.

Personally I like to give people benefit of the doubt, but if they sold me something like that then gave me that response. I would open a Significantly not as described case and leave them negative feedback.

I was beginning to think this forum was lacking sensible people. Brand name stuff, brand name title, from a reputable seller. And I'M expected to think it's going to be ⊗⊗⊗⊗.... Yeah OK. I, like you, tend to give people the benefit ot the doubt. Tho, on ebay, I give them that benefit, with the benefit of knowing I'm protected if I didn't doubt them enough.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Methinks the OP squeals a little too much....

Made a bid hoping for a kill.

Back fired.

Now needs to recoup as best as possible the losses.

Do not forget, OP, you posted and we gave comments.

Accept what was said or do not make such threads.

Hope you sort the issue soon.

Me thinks you have a head too big for your shoulders, greenbean.

I made a bid, and my bid was much higher than what I won it for. It wasn't even going to be a killing. DAILY I get better deals than I was getting here. This wasn't a killer in ANY way. It was a NORMAL deal for me. I've bought $800 lots worth $8000. THAT was me trying to get a steal. Because that's what our businesses are about! Or guess what, we wouldn't be on this forum.

Yeah, i posted. You gave comments. What exactly did I do that goes against any of that? Should i accept comments and not give responses?

I mean jeez, this whole time, I thought the people of this forum would get a blast out of the situation. Yet people turn around, and try to throw **** at my face.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

You always have to be careful when buying on eBay. However, eBay's policy is that it is the SELLER who is responsible for making sure their items are authentic. If they are not, then eBay will likely side with you if you open a complaint.

Given that the seller says he would like to work with you and given your knowledge of watches, I would figure out what the real ones are worth in total and offer to take that amount off of the refund. If he is selling these in bulk and is not making any guarantee as to the condition of the watches, then maybe that won't work. But it is always a good thing to try to work it out without eBay getting involved.

Having said that, if the seller refuses to come to a reasonable settlement, then I think you are within your rights to open a claim with eBay. As a seller, I don't like to see other sellers getting screwed over and there ARE many unscrupulous buyers out there that will claim an item is counterfeit so they can get it for free. But you placed a bid (or used buy it now) on the assumption that the items were authentic. If they were simply not in good shape and you assumed they were in mint condition, then I would say that you were stuck. But if the items turn out to be counterfeits, then you have every right to complain.

Nobody who sells counterfeits is going to tell you they are counterfeits. And maybe this guy is honest and a couple of watches slipped by him. I'm sure it happens. But the seller should make good on it. It sounds like these items were definitely not as described. Just because someone uses clever wording in a listing does not mean that they can get away with selling counterfeits.

When I shop at Best Buy, I assume everything is authentic because no multi-billion dollar corporation would knowingly take the risk of selling counterfeits. Small time eBay sellers are another matter.

Did you check the sellers feedback? Has he been accused of selling counterfeits before? Solefoodbk is right, you can't get away with selling counterfeits just because the listing does not specify they are authentic.

Again, I WOULD try to work it out with the seller first. Filing a complaint or a chargeback should be the last resort here.

Thanks Jeff :D I always like your stuff.

Seller has been on ebay since 2002. He has 100% feedback. He's no multi billion dollar company, but he's enough of a seller, where I'd have no reason to have pause that, one, he was selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗, and that two, he would screw me over if he did make a mistake and I wanted my money back.

Everyone here that is trying to call me a bad guy. I mean, jeez. I knew the items were going to be somewhat in rough shape, and knew if I buy them, they would require WORK. Therefor, I bought them based on the idea that there were watches in the lot valuable enough to warrant the time it would take, for me to clean up the watches. I would pay much more for new or newer watches, that didn't require all that work. But I took a gamble with this lot, but only a gamble as far as quality is concerned. The second authenticity comes into play, I'm DONE.

I contacted the seller first. I even gave him DAYS to respond. Didn't file a complaint or charge back. I asked for a CLEAN return and refund. Didn't ask for a discount. Yet, I'm the bad guy........ I'm truly amazed at that.


And to answer anyone thoughts. I gave him a nice long thought out and detailed response. And he was smart enough to realize he lost, and is going to accept the return.

[james13v]

For anyone that doubts me. Here's a quick example.
EBAY LINK
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAG-HEUER-Aq...p2047675.l2557

Sold for $2,650.00 on ebay.

And for the person that went to Jareds?

Jared - TAG Heuer Women's Watch Aquaracer Diamond Bezel WAP1452.BD0837

oh, only $6700.

Retail stores and retail prices are not ebay stores and ebay prices! Of all places, I thought this forum would get that.

MSRP and in store prices, mean JACK ****. You can buy watches on ebay for 30-70% cheaper than in a mall store. And if you're like me, and know watches and can risk buying " new without tag" or " new with defect" watches, you can get them for even cheaper. And if you have time to wait and look, you'll find even better deals that come around.

And so ends your lesson in the nuances of the watch market place.

[yankee]

In my market, high end sales on ebay are the same as Master Distributor pricing buying $1,000,000 at a time.

Often on the high end items, dealers sell items at cost with losses just to move product.

[JamesNorth101]

You have cherry picked the most expensive website there to prove a point.

A 30 second Google and you can find that watch for $3,500 on other retail websites.

Essentially most places do not sell that for the RRP, they RRP is just over inflated so shops can then advertise a 40% reduction in price. Very old trick used for a very long time.

The lesson to take from this is next time you buy a watch on eBay, do your due diligence. Not doing due diligence is just opening yourself up to be scammed, as you have found out this time.

[Bunneh]

You have to wonder about the seller though.. If he truly did sell this stuff honestly and got over $3000 for the auction. Then why on earth would you send the stuff when the payment is under review?


If the seller actually NAMED the items brands and they are like "omega" when they are not real, then thats a different story.
Regardless of any other info he wrote in the listing.

[BigCJ]

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by james13v

Jesus Christ, I've never seen so many arm chair quarter backs in one place before. I don't ACTUALLY think they are all real. My point was, that ebay doesn't allow ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Therefor I have no reason to THINK it's a ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Just as I have no reason to think something at a retail store is ⊗⊗⊗⊗.

This where you lost me.

This reminds of the infamous chinese sellers who sell jewelry for penny auctions.

They do this so they can dilute feedback from their other sales BUT when you check their feedback 9/10 times its from a item that cost a quarter.

People complaining that their ring busted and they spent 10 cents on it! Or even the people who went crazy and spent 1 whole dollar complaining it took for ever to get their amazing shiny necklace.

It sounds like you are playing the victim now. Of course I agree with what you said but not in the context it was said. These types of buyers (maybe you, maybe not) I really dislike like with a passion. They freak out when they ASSUMED and did not ask. Now again if its listed as something different then what you got then you can't be held accountable. Regardless, I see sellers selling t-shirts that cost retail $150+ for $10-$20.00

Now if I buy from them JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAY ITS PHAKE should I freak out because it is? I'm smart enough to know they are but they don't actually state "this t-shirt is phake".

This is called hustling backwards.

[solefoodbk]

Wait!


You don't also buy penny auction jewelry from Chinese sellers do you?

[yankee]

What the heck is the point of this thread? lol seriously, I don't get it.