Just wanted to show you guys a message from a seller that sold me ⊗⊗⊗⊗...

[james13v]

Long story short. I bought $3000 worth of watches. Saw a few in there that would be worth a lot of money. Got them in the mail. ⊗⊗⊗⊗. The rest of the watches were in such garbage condition that they weren't even worth my time, and would only be worth my time with the expensive watches being real.

So I send him a message on Monday. I wait. I wait. I send him another message wed, asking him to please respond. And then he did.

ME

Hello there. The watches arrived. Thank you for the fast shipping. Ran into a problem tho. . I took them to a watch maker to look over. The main watch that I wanted, which would have been have 50% of the cost of the entire lot, the Omega seamaster, is not a real Omega. So many watches to take pictures of, that I'm sure it was hard for you to get details shown for everything in the little amount of space ebay gives you, or else I might have noticed it myself from pics. I hate doing this, but I need to return them

HIM

Hello,

I wanted to let the question sit for a day or so while I think about how to address this situation. I'm in a difficult spot here. I received numerous questions regarding this lot and I accommodated every one the best that I could. I actually sent additional photos to other bidders and answered as many questions as time allotted.

My auction specifically stated: "Please ask any questions prior to bidding. Items are sold asis. All sales are final."
I buy lots like this all the time. Storage units, estate piles of costume jewelry. There is an inherent risk. It's a gamble and that is the name of the game.

As for this auction, I feel like the value was pretty obvious from the get-go. Assuming that half the value of the lot falls on one specific piece, is subjective. There are a lot of pieces in this lot that justify the price even if that watch in question is gone. I counted numerous Tags and movados. These watches retail for thousands. I sold this as a lot. An estate sale collection of items.

In answer to your question, I don't do returns. I don't have the time to be dealing with refunds and relisting. Yet, I want to be fair. As of right now, I haven't even collected the money for it. Paypal is "holding it" while your funds are "under review". The net amount (not including shipping) is already over $100 less than what you paid.

My gut reaction was to basically send you away and stand firm on the initial terms of the auction. I want to communicate with you though and come to an agreement that is fair.

Thoughts?

[jakobrockz]

You can continue to communicate with him to see what you guys can conclude to, or you can just open a case as you have a very firm case that eBay would force him to accept.

If you guys continue to communicate, I don't think he's going to want to have you return them but will give you a partial refund or something like that.

[Haidukken]

Umm... In all fairness, I kind of agree with him?

If his listing stated clearly to contact if you have any questions, then you perhaps should have? I sell sometimes "job lots" of items and I'm 100% honest seller and say exactly the same thing: If you are after a specific item or want additional photos/info, then PLEASE contact me before bidding. Usually people do, usually I haven't got any problems and people are super happy because they pay way less and make their money- I'm just clearing my space and I've already made my money, so no need to sell for premium etc.

I would probably NEVER buy anything on eBay worth that money, without asking questions and photos before the purchase.

In all honesty, with his description, why is he wrong? Because the one item that you were counting on ended up being ⊗⊗⊗⊗? Well, you kind of took the risk by bidding, didn't you?

I don't know man... To me it doesn't sound as bad as you make it out to be. He was probably trying to shift something that he knew was not 100% right, but protected himself with the description. You wanted to make money on it, took the risk and it didn't pay off- But you never made sure that the Omega watch was 100% legit, because you probably didn't want to hear the truth?

[Burger Box Man]

Get you money back lad. He obviously knew he was selling counterfeit. Thats why he did a job lot, mix a few counterfeit in with real ones and hopefully no one will notice. Just tell him ebay has a money back guarantee and its your right to send them back. Tell you dont want to open a case with ebay but you will if you have to. It's my guess he won't want a defect and refund.

[unkown5454]

The seller 100% knows he sells f@ke stuff, but you can see he clearly uses terms to protect himself and I'm sure those same words/phrases were in the listing as well.

Both of you are wrong here though. He uses BS like "estate sales", "lots", etc. and claims he has absolutely no idea what he is trading. That definitely does not mean he can sell coun.terf.eits and then just claim the retard card when people call him out on it.

Now, you are wrong for automatically assuming everything is real especially when he states the listing said all sales were final and that everything is sold as is. The cheapest Omega that I know of in retail stores at the moment is $4,400.

I think you were looking to make a quick buck and you got glossy-eyed ignorant. Now you want pity for buying one of the most heavily coun/terf/eited categories of product.

[Haidukken]

Originally Posted by unkown5454

The seller 100% knows he sells f@ke stuff, but you can see he clearly uses terms to protect himself and I'm sure those same words/phrases were in the listing as well.

Both of you are wrong here though. He uses BS like "estate sales", "lots", etc. and claims he has absolutely no idea what he is trading. That definitely does not mean he can sell coun.terf.eits and then just claim the retard card when people call him out on it.

Now, you are wrong for automatically assuming everything is real especially when he states the listing said all sales were final and that everything is sold as is. The cheapest Omega that I know of in retail stores at the moment is $4,400.

I think you were looking to make a quick buck and you got glossy-eyed ignorant. Now you want pity for buying one of the most heavily coun/terf/eited categories of product.

quoted for troof

[yankee]

Business is business.
Negotiate if you want and if that does not work, force a return.

If he knows something is not right, then he should be willing to offer a decent refund.

[Dmshark25]

Originally Posted by james13v

Long story short. I bought $3000 worth of watches. Saw a few in there that would be worth a lot of money. Got them in the mail. ⊗⊗⊗⊗. The rest of the watches were in such garbage condition that they weren't even worth my time, and would only be worth my time with the expensive watches being real.

So I send him a message on Monday. I wait. I wait. I send him another message wed, asking him to please respond. And then he did.

ME


HIM

If you want to make a return and get your money back than i cant see the seller stopping that from happening.
First off the funds are still being held at the moment. If i were you id open a case right away before his funds are released to him which may drag out the process of you getting a refund.

It doesnt matter how he worded the description, your not allowed to sell counterfeit items, and from his message to you he knew about it already or had this issue with previous sales.

When eBay reviews that message they will clearly see what he is selling and will not agree with his business model.

[luckoftheirish93]

Originally Posted by Burger Box Man

Get you money back lad. He obviously knew he was selling counterfeit. Thats why he did a job lot, mix a few counterfeit in with real ones and hopefully no one will notice. Just tell him ebay has a money back guarantee and its your right to send them back. Tell you dont want to open a case with ebay but you will if you have to. It's my guess he won't want a defect and refund.

yes you are right burger box boy,
if you open a case you will more than likely get a refund but will probably have to send the f-akes back to him, i would open a case and say the item wasn't as described and you ebay will sort it out for you when you escalate it

[muzzie]

Just open a case, and you will win it. And yes, you don't have to send items back, as it is forbidden to ship counterfeits vie mail.

[Mitsu]

Originally Posted by muzzie

And yes, you don't have to send items back, as it is forbidden to ship counterfeits vie mail.

Wouldn't you need hardcore proof for this? That seems very exploitable by buyers if that was the case.

[muzzie]

Originally Posted by Mitsu

Wouldn't you need hardcore proof for this? That seems very exploitable by buyers if that was the case.

And some dodgy buyers DO exploit it.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by unkown5454

The seller 100% knows he sells f@ke stuff, but you can see he clearly uses terms to protect himself and I'm sure those same words/phrases were in the listing as well.

Both of you are wrong here though. He uses BS like "estate sales", "lots", etc. and claims he has absolutely no idea what he is trading. That definitely does not mean he can sell coun.terf.eits and then just claim the retard card when people call him out on it.

Now, you are wrong for automatically assuming everything is real especially when he states the listing said all sales were final and that everything is sold as is. The cheapest Omega that I know of in retail stores at the moment is $4,400.

I think you were looking to make a quick buck and you got glossy-eyed ignorant. Now you want pity for buying one of the most heavily coun/terf/eited categories of product.

I'll respond to you first, as you're the first one to say I'm wrong .

If you look at stores, to get your prices, than I'm not sure what you are doing selling on ebay .

If it's $4400 in a store, it's $2200 on ebay. If it's $2200 on ebay new, it's $1100 on ebay used. I was paying FAIR market value for the lot of watches, based on them being REAL.

I'm not looking for pity here. But you clearly don't know anything about watches or about selling watches. I've been selling them since I was a child. And my father has been a watch maker for 50 years, and his father for 40 years. I know watches.

I HAVE to automatically assume the watches are real, because it is ILLEGAL, and against EBAY policy to sell counterfeits. I had aboslutly no reason to ask him questions about the authenticity of the products. That's all on him. If he knew they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, he should have said so. If he didn't know they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then asking him questions wouldn't have helped. I can't exactly ask him questions about each of the 30 watches. I don't have time for that. I expect sellers to be truthful, and if they make a mistake, for them to correct it.

You can sell whatever you want as is. But if you LIE in your listing, as is means jack freaking ****.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by muzzie

And some dodgy buyers DO exploit it.

I've never shipped back a ⊗⊗⊗⊗. And I've never had a seller fight to get it back. Even while they were fighting the case. Funny how that works huh.... Ebay is supposed to have you destroy the ⊗⊗⊗⊗. Last guy, I told him they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, he instantly refunded me and told me to keep them and sorry for the trouble.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by Haidukken

quoted for troof

more like quoted for ⊗⊗⊗⊗

[james13v]

Originally Posted by Burger Box Man

Get you money back lad. He obviously knew he was selling counterfeit. Thats why he did a job lot, mix a few counterfeit in with real ones and hopefully no one will notice. Just tell him ebay has a money back guarantee and its your right to send them back. Tell you dont want to open a case with ebay but you will if you have to. It's my guess he won't want a defect and refund.

I almost always spot them. It's usually 3-6 watches. One of them will be a Tag heuer more than not. Always ⊗⊗⊗⊗.

I made a mistake last time I received a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, of opening up a normal return, because it really did seem like a seller mistake. Totally honest mistake. He denied the return... Been fighting it for the past 3 months. $500

[GreenBean]

Methinks the OP squeals a little too much....

Made a bid hoping for a kill.

Back fired.

Now needs to recoup as best as possible the losses.

Do not forget, OP, you posted and we gave comments.

Accept what was said or do not make such threads.

Hope you sort the issue soon.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by james13v

If it's $4400 in a store, it's $2200 on ebay. If it's $2200 on ebay new, it's $1100 on ebay used. I was paying FAIR market value for the lot of watches, based on them being REAL.

That sort of pricing seems very strange to me

You cannot pick up a real new watch that sells in a shop for $4400 for $2200 on eBay.

It is is used, then sure a 50% discount seems about right, but no way would a real watch on eBay that is new be worth 50% of what its worth in a shop. No one on eBay would sell a watch with with that much of a discount off current RRP on a regular basis. Watch dealers on eBay generally have very similar prices to watches being sold in shops. Most of the larger eBay dealers have their own shops

There is a saying on a lot of internet watch forums when it comes to buying a watch on eBay. Buy the seller not the watch.

This seems a bit like 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other

[unkown5454]

Originally Posted by james13v

I'll respond to you first, as you're the first one to say I'm wrong .

If you look at stores, to get your prices, than I'm not sure what you are doing selling on ebay .

If it's $4400 in a store, it's $2200 on ebay. If it's $2200 on ebay new, it's $1100 on ebay used. I was paying FAIR market value for the lot of watches, based on them being REAL.

I'm not looking for pity here. But you clearly don't know anything about watches or about selling watches. I've been selling them since I was a child. And my father has been a watch maker for 50 years, and his father for 40 years. I know watches.

I HAVE to automatically assume the watches are real, because it is ILLEGAL, and against EBAY policy to sell counterfeits. I had aboslutly no reason to ask him questions about the authenticity of the products. That's all on him. If he knew they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, he should have said so. If he didn't know they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then asking him questions wouldn't have helped. I can't exactly ask him questions about each of the 30 watches. I don't have time for that. I expect sellers to be truthful, and if they make a mistake, for them to correct it.

You can sell whatever you want as is. But if you LIE in your listing, as is means jack freaking ****.

Congratulations, your entire response tells me and everyone else here you are an even bigger moron than we originally thought.

59% longevity and apparently an entire family history of watch makers/sellers and you still get conned and then come to a forum to cry like a little baby.

Like I said, you f*cked up and now you want a pity party. You have also clearly dealt in this shady business more than once...glossy-eyed ignorant. Good luck with your pawn shop.

[dealagreeproceed]

I HAVE to automatically assume the watches are real, because it is ILLEGAL, and against EBAY policy to sell counterfeits.

my response:
if you had a thousand bucks on you would you leave it in view at a public area just because stealing is technically illegal?



If he didn't know they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then asking him questions wouldn't have helped.

my response:
if you asked him if ALL the watches were authentic he most likely would have told you he doesn't know. IF you asked him if they are all authentic and he said YES then he would definitely be completely in the wrong. BUT you never asked him! don't make assumpions especially on eby.

[solefoodbk]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Accept what was said or do not make such threads.

Pshhh stop it GreenBean.

You and I both know you shouldn't HAVE to ask a seller if what is being sold is "real" or not. If its ⊗⊗⊗⊗ it MUST have listed as such. It is NOT the buyers responsibility, its the seller who creates the listing.

Even based off what he said makes it a clear giveaway hes lying. If he said he wanted you to message him prior to buying the lot then what would he have said?

"yes they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches"

If he says that then the whole listing is faulty regardless of what happens next. You can't list something as authentic and just maybe not use the word "authentic" and then except the buyer to deliberately ask if its real or not.

That's like going into a Best Buy and asking the sales guy if this X Box 1 is a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ because it doesn't say its real on the box.

[jeffweico]

You always have to be careful when buying on eBay. However, eBay's policy is that it is the SELLER who is responsible for making sure their items are authentic. If they are not, then eBay will likely side with you if you open a complaint.

Given that the seller says he would like to work with you and given your knowledge of watches, I would figure out what the real ones are worth in total and offer to take that amount off of the refund. If he is selling these in bulk and is not making any guarantee as to the condition of the watches, then maybe that won't work. But it is always a good thing to try to work it out without eBay getting involved.

Having said that, if the seller refuses to come to a reasonable settlement, then I think you are within your rights to open a claim with eBay. As a seller, I don't like to see other sellers getting screwed over and there ARE many unscrupulous buyers out there that will claim an item is counterfeit so they can get it for free. But you placed a bid (or used buy it now) on the assumption that the items were authentic. If they were simply not in good shape and you assumed they were in mint condition, then I would say that you were stuck. But if the items turn out to be counterfeits, then you have every right to complain.

Nobody who sells counterfeits is going to tell you they are counterfeits. And maybe this guy is honest and a couple of watches slipped by him. I'm sure it happens. But the seller should make good on it. It sounds like these items were definitely not as described. Just because someone uses clever wording in a listing does not mean that they can get away with selling counterfeits.

When I shop at Best Buy, I assume everything is authentic because no multi-billion dollar corporation would knowingly take the risk of selling counterfeits. Small time eBay sellers are another matter.

Did you check the sellers feedback? Has he been accused of selling counterfeits before? Solefoodbk is right, you can't get away with selling counterfeits just because the listing does not specify they are authentic.

Again, I WOULD try to work it out with the seller first. Filing a complaint or a chargeback should be the last resort here.