Am I responsible if buyer's item is stolen during shipping?

[jakobrockz]

But wouldn't the tracking say delivered aka left at the front door? How could eBay/the seller fully believe that the item was stolen?

Just changing perspective

[dallis]

Everybody mixes all these issues up. There are a lot of different things going on here.

This is the logic:

When you sold a product with delivery, you contracted with the buyer that you may keep the money only if it is delivered, and deemed acceptable.

You may have been paid in ADVANCE of delivery and acceptance, but the deal is not done and the money IS NOT YOURS UNTIL THE BUYER HAS THE PRODUCT IN HIS HAND and ACCEPTS the product.

By selling on Ebay, you have agreed that if the buyer does not AGREE that the item was delivered, or is not ACCEPTABLE, that they may return it. That's why statements such as "sold as is" are unenforceable.

Your deal with the buyer does not say, "This deal is done when Fedex throws it up on the porch and drives off at high speed".

You, on your own, subcontracted (paid for) a contractor to deliver the product. The buyer knows you will do this, you may have specified this in the listing ( ie USPS First Class Mail or whatever ).

BUT your agreement with the buyer did not change, you agreed to deliver the product to the buyer, and you agreed that the buyer must accept it before the deal is completed and only then is the money yours.

The delivery service is your agent, you are responsible for their actions.

When you contracted with the delivery service to deliver, you made an agreement with the DELIVERY COMPANY, not the BUYER, that the delivery scan constituted delivery. Once they scan it as delivered, their contract with you is completed.

Once again, this doesn't change the agreement you made with the buyer. You, or your agent, MUST deliver the product and they must deem it acceptable.

The buyer claims it didn't arrive.

Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. You can't know for sure. I've had drivers scan packages as delivered, but leave them at the wrong address. It happens.

BUT if it didn't arrive, YOU are responsible for the non-delivery of your agent.

Ebay MAY accept the delivery companies documented assertion that the package arrived as fact, and that you completed your contract, in which case you will win.

Ebay MAY decide the delivery companies' assertion is less convincing than your customer's, in which case the customer will win.

If Ebay gives the customer their money back, (that you are holding until the deal is complete), to reimburse them, you may try to collect for those damages from your agent, the delivery company, for their failure to protect you by adequately demonstrating delivery.

But the responsibility for the possible loss of the package is, in that case, between you and your agent.

The customer didn't employ them, you did. If they don't do their job, you are the one who employed them, their actions or errors are your responsibility.

Once again, your contract with the buyer isn't changed in any way.

If you insured the package, there is yet another contract, and this one doesn't change your contract with the buyer either. This contract says, "if the agent I hired to deliver the package loses or damages the package within the terms of this contract with you, you, insurance company, will make me whole.

Once again, the buyer has nothing to do with this third-party agreement. This is a deal between you and yet another third party.

[dbcreator11]

I had bought a phone screen on ebay for 150 and the post office stuck it in a different box in my town then the tracking showed it was delivered but I lost my money and the phone screen cause of the mail mans incompetence.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by dbcreator11

I had bought a phone screen on ebay for 150 and the post office stuck it in a different box in my town then the tracking showed it was delivered but I lost my money and the phone screen cause of the mail mans incompetence.

You should be able to get refund for it, no?

[golferman]

Originally Posted by chicagoIL

Unfortunately, you heard wrong. Sorry! Until the item is delivered, it's Your
responsibility. When you order an item from any on line place, if it's lost,
do you just accept it was lost and lose the money? No, they ship it again.
You are responsible for getting the item to the buyer in the condition they
purchased it. If it's damaged or lost, that's on you. The policy with
ebay is that sellers are required to have insurance on everything they ship.

Your wrong! The way Ebay works as long as you ship it to them and provide tracking, the seller is covered point blank for items not received

yes the buyer can open a dispute but they will not win

OP as long as you shipped the item and provided tracking to ebay and it shows delivered to the buyer, your fine you will win the case

[golferman]

Originally Posted by dallis

Everybody mixes all these issues up. There are a lot of different things going on here.

This is the logic:

When you sold a product with delivery, you contracted with the buyer that you may keep the money only if it is delivered, and deemed acceptable.

You may have been paid in ADVANCE of delivery and acceptance, but the deal is not done and the money IS NOT YOURS UNTIL THE BUYER HAS THE PRODUCT IN HIS HAND and ACCEPTS the product.

By selling on Ebay, you have agreed that if the buyer does not AGREE that the item was delivered, or is not ACCEPTABLE, that they may return it. That's why statements such as "sold as is" are unenforceable.

Your deal with the buyer does not say, "This deal is done when Fedex throws it up on the porch and drives off at high speed".

You, on your own, subcontracted (paid for) a contractor to deliver the product. The buyer knows you will do this, you may have specified this in the listing ( ie USPS First Class Mail or whatever ).

BUT your agreement with the buyer did not change, you agreed to deliver the product to the buyer, and you agreed that the buyer must accept it before the deal is completed and only then is the money yours.

The delivery service is your agent, you are responsible for their actions.

When you contracted with the delivery service to deliver, you made an agreement with the DELIVERY COMPANY, not the BUYER, that the delivery scan constituted delivery. Once they scan it as delivered, their contract with you is completed.

Once again, this doesn't change the agreement you made with the buyer. You, or your agent, MUST deliver the product and they must deem it acceptable.

The buyer claims it didn't arrive.

Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. You can't know for sure. I've had drivers scan packages as delivered, but leave them at the wrong address. It happens.

BUT if it didn't arrive, YOU are responsible for the non-delivery of your agent.

Ebay MAY accept the delivery companies documented assertion that the package arrived as fact, and that you completed your contract, in which case you will win.

Ebay MAY decide the delivery companies' assertion is less convincing than your customer's, in which case the customer will win.

If Ebay gives the customer their money back, (that you are holding until the deal is complete), to reimburse them, you may try to collect for those damages from your agent, the delivery company, for their failure to protect you by adequately demonstrating delivery.

But the responsibility for the possible loss of the package is, in that case, between you and your agent.

The customer didn't employ them, you did. If they don't do their job, you are the one who employed them, their actions or errors are your responsibility.

Once again, your contract with the buyer isn't changed in any way.

If you insured the package, there is yet another contract, and this one doesn't change your contract with the buyer either. This contract says, "if the agent I hired to deliver the package loses or damages the package within the terms of this contract with you, you, insurance company, will make me whole.

Once again, the buyer has nothing to do with this third-party agreement. This is a deal between you and yet another third party.

Nonsense!!!!!!!!!

This is not true

Ebay rules is as long as the item tracking shows delivered to the customer, the seller is covered and will win the dispute PERIOD!

The tracking have to show delivered to he customer house and seller is covered

Guys/Gals should really learn Ebay before selling

[golferman]

Originally Posted by Yeezy

I don't know who to trust anymore. The Reddit eBay forum and the eBay forum itself told me that I wasn't responsible for the package being stolen and that once it is left at the door it is the buyers responsibility.

They told me I should win the case easily. I'm so confused.

According to Ebay rules, as long as the tracking show delivered to the buyer address you will win no matter what!!

Check your PM, I think we got the same buyer and its a scammer

[Twocoolt]

Just an FYI, it is recommended sellers get signature confirmation on items $250 and above. Actually it may be required to win a case.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by golferman

Nonsense!!!!!!!!!

This is not true

Ebay rules is as long as the item tracking shows delivered to the customer, the seller is covered and will win the dispute PERIOD!

The tracking have to show delivered to he customer house and seller is covered

Guys/Gals should really learn Ebay before selling

This is exactly what should happen in theory. The problem is eBay do not always follow their own rules

Best case situation for OP would be the eBay refunds the buyer out of their own pocket and OP is not left out of pocket. Otherwise what could happen is OP wins the eBay case, then the buyer opens a PayPal case. OP could also win that. The buyer could then issue a charge back. Chances are OP would loose that

[james13v]

Originally Posted by Twocoolt

Just an FYI, it is recommended sellers get signature confirmation on items $250 and above. Actually it may be required to win a case.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

$750 or above, actually

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

This is exactly what should happen in theory. The problem is eBay do not always follow their own rules

Best case situation for OP would be the eBay refunds the buyer out of their own pocket and OP is not left out of pocket. Otherwise what could happen is OP wins the eBay case, then the buyer opens a PayPal case. OP could also win that. The buyer could then issue a charge back. Chances are OP would loose that

Paypal will rule in your favor, if ebay ruled in your favor. They don't allow a customer to double dip. AND if they did paypal has the same rules. Shows delivered to the correct zip code, and you win. It's not a theory. I've never lost these cases

[JamesNorth101]

Rules changed a few months ago.

Buyers can now open a PayPal case even if they have lost an eBay case

Winning the eBay does not automatically mean you will win the PayPal case. Not anymore

[james13v]

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

Rules changed a few months ago.

Buyers can now open a PayPal case even if they have lost an eBay case

Winning the eBay does not automatically mean you will win the PayPal case. Not anymore

Can you show me these new rules? I haven't experienced that yet. From what the reps told me, they still can't double dip. They can OPEN a case, you can easily get it closed.

[aking]

If it was $400 item you better believe I'm making someone sign for it. Not leaving it sitting on someones doorstep.

[JamesNorth101]

Originally Posted by james13v

Can you show me these new rules? I haven't experienced that yet. From what the reps told me, they still can't double dip. They can OPEN a case, you can easily get it closed.

Its been around for about a year now, ever since eBay and PayPal split

It was in eBay news quite a while back. Around July 2015

eBay community also has a few topics on it

For the most part if its a PayPal funded transaction then PayPal are siding with eBay (although this is not guaranteed). If its a chargeback though that is out of PayPals hands which is why the PayPal/eBay T&Cs do not apply

[oompaloompa]

its funny how the desirable items get stolen....its like they take a peek and decide whether to take it...

yes they can open a paypal case too if they lose ebay or are out of time for ebay....I won all mine so far though, as they were all far-fetched attempts....I am sure telling paypal that they lost the ebay case and why, does make a difference, and all of the cases got ruled in my favour or just got quitely dropped, not sure how but no outcome notification and no money deducted...

[Yeezy]

Thanks everyone for your advice. No updates at all. I think that there's a high chance I will lose because my account has zero feedback and first item I sold is the one the buyer is disputing.

But I wonder, if eBay thinks I'm scamming why are they asking the buyer for more information? That is what makes me think I'll win because if they thought I was scamming they would have closed the case right then and there, but it has been extended because they are asking the buyer for more information.

I really do wonder what they are asking him.

[MM78]

You sold an item on a zero feedback account worth $400, that's gutsy but then again I do often hear people doing stuff like that. The buyer probably thought you were a newbie, most likely why he's claiming the item got stolen off his front door.

[OpticalBlade]

Hi, Technically its not your fault but.... As you didn't get a signature and it wasn't sent tracked you probably wont win when it comes to Ebay.

I made the mistake about a year ago I sent a pair of high value trainers to a guy in the states.
I put down what I thought was the correct postage on ebay and when I got it weighed at the post office it was nearly twice as much to send tracked.
I took a risk and sent the item standard STUPID MISTAKE as its not like I can go and buy another pair and yes they never turned up. 3 weeks later the guy is calling me everything under the sun, and I explained I had sent them and showed him the postage receipt with his postcode on it.
Ebay didn't want to know, no signature or tracking number no leg to stand on... to this day I don't know if the guy got them or not but what I do know is that I was down a pair of trainers and £240 which got debited out of my paypal account......

Lesson learned!!!! Always send tracked and recorded at least then you have a good case instead of not having one at all.

[Yeezy]

Originally Posted by OpticalBlade

Hi, Technically its not your fault but.... As you didn't get a signature and it wasn't sent tracked you probably wont win when it comes to Ebay.

I made the mistake about a year ago I sent a pair of high value trainers to a guy in the states.
I put down what I thought was the correct postage on ebay and when I got it weighed at the post office it was nearly twice as much to send tracked.
I took a risk and sent the item standard STUPID MISTAKE as its not like I can go and buy another pair and yes they never turned up. 3 weeks later the guy is calling me everything under the sun, and I explained I had sent them and showed him the postage receipt with his postcode on it.
Ebay didn't want to know, no signature or tracking number no leg to stand on... to this day I don't know if the guy got them or not but what I do know is that I was down a pair of trainers and £240 which got debited out of my paypal account......

Lesson learned!!!! Always send tracked and recorded at least then you have a good case instead of not having one at all.

Wow. That's a lot of money to lose. I actually sent it tracked so that should help me a bunch.

[Yeezy]

The buyer won the case. I'm out of $400.00 now. I feel horrible now. I think I'm going to call eBay but I'm scared to call them because I'm using a stealth account.

[vetman90]

Calling eBay won't do you any good. If anything it will give eBay another reason to look closer at YOU. I'm sorry this happened to you. I have had similar experiences over my years with eBay and have also lost big sums of money.

Most all of us on this forum could probably write a 2" thick book on all the wrongs eBay and PayPal has laid on us.

I have learned how you are learning now. Anything I can't afford to give away I insure and pay for a signature required.

But...........all my buyer has to say is it's not as advertised and I still lose the case whether it makes it back to me as a return or not.

It's not just eBay. It's the price of doing business remotely by mail or freight.
I have bought plenty of items online from sellers like Harbor Freight, Summit Racing, Jegs, Lowes and Home Depot just to name a few and if I get something damaged or with parts missing or something that never came at all...............generally one phone call and they are sending me another one.......at their expense.