Forum

German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Hello there, i am from germany and have registered a business here.
now my problem is the following, my account got banned as i have written in the introduction section, not a nice situation so far. I have to restart selling asap.

The problem i see with a stealth account is that in order to register it, i have to fill ⊗⊗⊗⊗ data. or at least switch some letters. but what about my VAT ID? (USt-ID)
When i make an error there everybody can sue me for this. same would be if i register the account as "private".

so i have to open another business account and state the correct VAT ID.
--> the Accounts will get linked, correct?

And what about the business registration documents? i have to use my real ones here or i will be in big trouble if the german IRS (Finanzamt) checks this with paypal.
--> does PayPal or eBay check the documents against other accounts or misspellings?
--> if they would even correct them in the account, means same address, accounts banned.

How did you, german sellers and citizens, solve these problems?

thanks for every thought about this!

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

There is no need on ebay.de to add your VAT ID when registering a business account.

Ebay and paypal won't be asking for business reg docs, if you set it up correctly.

Read stealth book again, some of your questions might be answered there. You simply do not re-use any info previously used.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Hello there!
Is there anybody who can explain all the ways of getting German stealth accounts?
For example, how can i sell in Germany, if i live outside the EU?
It would be very helpful for lot of people.
There is no info at all, how to solve the problems of not living there, address confirmation, bank account confirmations, problems with German state services, vpn and others.
I don't get even if it is possible for me to have a German stealth account.
It seems there is a lot of info, but when you look closer, there is no info at all, allowing us to have a step by step plan of selling in Germany.
Any info, link or web address would be helpful.
Thanks a lot

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

It seems I can't send a private message till I get 10 posts..

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Just make an account in your country and then log in with the details on ebay.de

Then you'll be able to list on ebay.de

No need to have German details / address.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

German ebay need to send letter with dhl cant anybody register

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

hmm that's not true.. just registered one yesterday :)
it was true some time ago. but thats years i think
maybe it is your IP and/or browser language?

btw. i can help with german docs if sb needs

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Better remove your personal info from that doc.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

What should I be afraid of?
What is the risk of giving your account name to someone?

please explain because I do not realize what threatens me.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

You don't know who is reading/watching that info.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

97/5000
thanks, can you delete these posts?
you have a link there.

I will also delete everything I wrote here.

thanks!!!

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Why not try personal account rather than business account? You can provide less documents then. You can also get 1000/10000eurs selling allowance for a new personal account if you create more smarter!

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

More selling allowance - sure about that?

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

German Business account: 1000/10000euro selling allowance for a new account.

German Personal account: 500/5000euros or 1000/10000euros.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Recently I was also trying to register a German account when I posted a listing. Ebay asked me to provide personal information. I do not know what to do.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

You need schufa to get past that. Ideally before account creation, but it works with already live account most times

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Hi backamblock,

I am based in UK. I want to start selling in Germany using Euro currency. How should I go about doing it? Is there any way of buying ebay.de stealth accounts? or should I get ebay.co.uk and then sell in germany? But how can I accept the payment in euros? Thanks

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

the game rules on Ebay germany changed since 1 Mars 2019

no VAT Nr no Party :(

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Anybody with solutions? I am urgently interested in that, too.
I am selling in Germany and my account got suspended. Do we even need stealth in Germany? I see UK, EU etc. and searched for "german" on aspkin, but no one talked about it seriously I think.
Thankful for your help

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

No need for schufa if you can provide the documents they ask for.

You are right btw, VAT ID is now required and also a document from the revenue office confirming the VAT ID.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Sorry, i was away for a while.
Stealth in Germany is pretty straight forward actually, i did not need a VAT ID for now.
For my original questions i found pretty easy workarounds fortunately.

What is your question? If you need stealth? well, it depends.
assuming you mean personal accounts:
If you want your real data including the full risk of getting limited/suspended. then the answer is no you dont need it.
But if you want to reduce/eliminate risk and dont get yourself banned on ebay, then yes, you should use stealth. makes your life easier in the long run

Anyway, if you have a registered business, you should focus your main powers on growing your own real ebay shop as a business seller account.
But still grow some stealths behind the scenes, you never know when your ebay career is over/suspended

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Well, no need for schufa if you can provide documents..
But.. no need for documents if your account has schufa ;)
also, no need for phone numer/Sim card and you can list more stuff faster.
You can also connect the account to API Listing Software pretty early in it's lifetime

i don't want to offend you, but i think schufa is as mandatory as a vcc when you dont want to deal with restoring limited accounts and don't want to care about if you list slow enough

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Thats ok, I start all my accounts without SCHUFA and get 500 or 1k items without problems, not sure about your creation methods. Also I haven't been asked yet to provide them with documents. :thumb:

Not sure what it'll be in the future with Ayden instead of pp.

One question tho: how do you deal with the VAT certificate?

Cheers

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

How are your listing habits, do you start with low volume/low risk in the first month(s) ?
Documents should come when you reached incoming transfers to the EU AML Limit of 2500€ in your Paypal account :)

I did not yet need any VAT docs/IDs. so far my accounts are at around 12k total turnover each, so it could still be needed at 17.5k, which is DE yearly limit between small business (no VAT) and regular VAT.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

Not really sure about that. As I heard the Finanzamt will issue these docs to "Kleinunternehmer" who ware not VAT registered as well. But not sure about that.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

I am not completely sure when and who needs any VAT docs when selling on .de

What I read in Update April 2019:

In practice, the following three situations will normally trigger mandatory VAT registration:

1. If you are an EU established seller and your business is trading over the legal thresholds defined by your home country you must ensure that you are registered for VAT. The thresholds vary between EU countries and are currently anything from 0 EUR in Spain to 85,000 GBP in UK. In practice, this means that you must register for VAT immediately if you are a Spanish business (no minimum threshold), whereas you are required to register for VAT as an UK seller only after you have made over 85,000 GBP sales within 12 consecutive months.

2. If you are selling goods that are warehoused/pre-deployed in any other country than your home country, then you must register for VAT immediately in the EU country where your goods are located. There is no minimal threshold and this rule also applies for sellers from outside of the EU with inventory pre-deployed in the EU.

3. If you sell a lot of goods located in one EU country to private buyers in another EU country (distance selling), you may also be required to register for and collect VAT in the country of your buyer if you exceed specific thresholds for that country. These range from 26,135 EUR for distance sales to Romania to 100,000 EUR for Germany.


WARNING EBAY LINK

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/se...ons-eu?id=4650

What should I do in case that I am not living in Germany and selling from other EU country ?

Thanks in advance!

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

That's how I understand things:

1. If you are a seller registered in Germany and selling in Germany you're **** out of luck from 1st October onward. You need the doc.

One exception might be small business owners. But from what I heard even if you are a small business that is not liable for VAT you'll get a document from the revenue department confirming so and you'll have to submit the doc.

2. If you're a seller registered from abroad, weather EU or not, and do not have an interim storage in Germany and your yearly turnover is smaller than 100k Euros there's no VAT liability for you in Germany. Thus no registration needed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

I thought the same. Let's just wait and see what happens.

Re: German Stealth VAT ID + Docs - or other country?
 

My first post here and read this thread with interest also want to say thank you for all the great information here. I think though there are some misunderstandings.
In Germany if you are going to create a business account, you will need a Gewerbeschein, (commercial/trading license) which means you have to have an address in Germany. Through the application for a Gewerbeschein, your details are forwarded to the Finanzamt (Tax office) who then issue you with a VAT number. To register as a commercial seller you need this number. Also if you sell through EBAY you have to supply a Bescheinigung über die Erfassung als Steuerpflichtig, which you get from the Tax office. Without this you cannot sell commercially on Ebay if you are in Germany. As someone above pointed out.
Obviously you can sell from an outside country but you will not be competitive when it comes to post/Versand, which plays a big role with german consumers.
The biggest danger with selling on EBAY commercially or private are the Abmahnanwälte Lawyers who send out cautions with costs attached. they will pick up on any legal failure you make and are like sharks. Best to have everything legally checked in advance, cheaper in the long run. Also if you exaggerate as a private seller, they will pounce on you, claiming you are a business and demand costs etc.

Schufa is not necessary, Schufa checks if you are credit worthy, banks and businessesuse this to check before giving credit/sendig goods. If you are schufa negative you will not be able to open a bank account or a paypal account. You cannot influence Schufa in any way.

The biggest problem with a stealth account is the VAT number and the Bescheinigung, you have to give the Vat number when applying and you must give the proper name otherwise the VAT number will not be accepted.

What would interest me, are these stealth accounts private, when yes then one is severly limited in the quantity of goods which one can sell.
Creating multiple businesses with different trading licences would be very expensive from the accounting side.

I have been suspended from EBAY but am interested from time to time in selling stuff.
The information on stealth accounts in Germany are all a bit vague. The two big problems are VAT and Abmahnanwälte. Would be grateful to hear if anyone has solutions to bypass this.