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Old 10-15-2014
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Default Business software alliance

Hi I have just got a message from the business software alliance stating to take down my listings otherwise they will put a case against me .... is this something to be afraid of?
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Old 10-15-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Post up the message - how legit is it? Are your products counterfeit? Do you have proof of authenticity? So many questions...
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Yes, they have been all legit, but I've been using diffrent accounts.. maybe that's why they putting a file against me?

They didn't even ask for evidence or proof of the softwares.. quite confusing maybe it's a competitor as it was from someone called Diane bergstorm, and the account the message was sent from was made 2 days ago.

Is this how they approach? Am just worried as they will come to my house
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Default Re: Business software alliance

If they are all stealth accounts how could they come to your house? The only way they could track you is through your bank account or ip (not if you are using tethering)?

Let me know how you get on.
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Well all I've been doing is connecting and disconnecting the router and using another account.. as the ip changes when you connect and dis connect... can they find out where I stay like this?
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Old 10-15-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

If the rights holders do not want you selling their item then the best thing to do is to find a new item to sell
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Old 10-18-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

In the USA, if you have legit items, you would just file a counter notice on their takedowns and they will leave you alone after a few tries. In the UK, not so sure. It's bullying, pure and simple, and they can get away with it because most people will go along and not fight.
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Old 10-18-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovidiu View Post
In the USA, if you have legit items, you would just file a counter notice on their takedowns and they will leave you alone after a few tries.
Please elaborate.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 10-18-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovidiu View Post
In the USA, if you have legit items, you would just file a counter notice on their takedowns and they will leave you alone after a few tries. In the UK, not so sure. It's bullying, pure and simple, and they can get away with it because most people will go along and not fight.
This is a serious at-your-own-risk thing.

No one wants to get into a laws.uit with the BSA. That's why the typical person is going to bow down.
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Old 10-18-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

This is a serious at-your-own-risk thing.


Untrue, if you have legitimate items. First sale doctrine means they cannot prevent you, in most cases, from selling the software. But they illegally use provisions of the DMCA to take down listings, knowing most people will not fight it.

A counter notice means they have ten days to respond with a lawsuit or court order, or eBay puts the listing back up. Now they are not going to file any lawsuit knowing they will need to explain themselves in court. BSA is a industry group whose job is to mostly illegally bully people on eBay under the false claim that 99.99999% of software not sold on Adobe.com, Microsoft.com, or Best Buy is counterfeit.

How do I know this? From filing over a dozen counter notices over the years, and winning every single one of them, including takedowns from BSA, Microsoft, and Adobe. Also check out tabberone.com for more on copyright on eBay.
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

So, from what you're saying, anyone can file a counter notice and win? Even if they are selling count.erf.eits, as long as the BSA and other software copyright owner don't respond with a laws.uit?

How does anyone prove what is real and what is not without having physical copies? I understand frivolous DM.CA takedowns happen by the thousands every day. They cannot respond to every counter notice so obviously some will make it through.

I still say it's at your own risk especially when so many people have no clue if what they possess is real or not unless they bought it directly from a big box store.

As far as First Sale doctrine is concerned, there is no law that says EB, AZ, Crai.gs.List or any other ecommerce site has to allow you to operate on their website. If there was, there would be no reason for all of us to have to create millions of stea/lth accounts. We could all just call the internet police to force any website to let us sell our crap.
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Old 10-19-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

So, from what you're saying, anyone can file a counter notice and win?

Sure, if the rights owner or their representative don't respond, you automatically win.

Even if they are selling count.erf.eits, as long as the BSA and other software copyright owner don't respond with a laws.uit?


Yes! The point is, the BSA and other agents are often quite aware of what is, and isn't counterfeit. They specifically target regular people selling legitimate copies of software instead of going after counterfeit sellers. In fact, hundreds of counterfeit Microsoft and Adobe software items from China are sold on eBay every day, and not a peep from BSA, Adobe, or Microsoft. They don't care about these because they have real law enforcement agencies working the backend. The purpose of the BSA is solely to bully people into thinking Best Buy or Office Depot is the only legitimate option for purchasing software. It is NOT to protect anyone from counterfeits.

How does anyone prove what is real and what is not without having physical copies

Companies like Microsoft actually let you send in samples of software to be certified as genuine with a certificate you can post on your listings. Companies like Adobe take a hard line, and an illegal one, that they pretend the First Sale Doctrine arbitrarily doesn't apply to their software.

I still say it's at your own risk especially when so many people have no clue if what they possess is real or not unless they bought it directly from a big box store.


My advice is for people who are absolutely aware of what they have. Most software items are purchased from a big box store anyway.

As far as First Sale doctrine is concerned, there is no law that says EB, AZ, Crai.gs.List or any other ecommerce site has to allow you to operate on their website.

First Sale Doctrine has nothing to do with EB or AZ. It has to do with preventing companies like Microsoft from arbitrarily preventing you from selling your legitimately owned software. EB and AZ can still decide that they don't want you on their site for whatever reason. However, eBay has "graciously" provided a way to fight one type of takedown, and we should use it when we are in the right.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

I get what you are saying. We are on the same page. Just looking at it from different angles.

As long as people can prove what they have is real, then counter. Where it goes from there is up to EB and the rights holder.

I wanted to clarify First Sale doctrine because there has been big arguments about it in the past and people were confused thinking it meant they have the right to sell anything they want online.

The DM.CA massacre that has been going on all over the internet for the past few years is just sad. Websites, businesses and peoples' lives are being destroyed because everyone is automatically guilty until proven innocent which is not the law by any means. I still see no end in sight because I am reading new cases every single d@mn week.
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Old 10-19-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

I totally agree with you unknown. My advice is ONLY for legitimate software, which is hard enough to pass by eBay and software industry Nazi's. Anyone selling counterfeit software can go STRAIGHT to hell, in my opinion. They are the ones responsible for giving companies the momentum to pass the DMCA monstrosity in the first place and creating copyright headaches for small and big entities alike.

AND, court opinion is always changing. Just recently, a decision involving a previously litigated Autodesk lawsuit was handed down, opining that if the EULA says the software may not be resold (Autodesk's EULAs are written by the devil himself), you may not resell it. It's a constantly changing landscape with landmines hiding left & right. And in addition, in a few years, all software will be digital only anyway, with essentially no reselling of software possible anymore.
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Old 10-19-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

@aimhigh666...have you been using your house as registered address for eb? Meaning that your address is on file?!?
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Old 10-25-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Hello .. I got the same email today ... Pls let me know if anyone found out whether this person is real and in deed from BSA etc.
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Old 10-28-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Yeah, it's very real man... i had the same thing on ten stealth accounts last year, didn't respond until i got trading standards on the door step. They found me alright and i was going to get royally screwed. Luckily i was in process of moving out and a couple of weeks later went traveling to America. Still have sleepless nights thinking my door is going to get knocked now! Avoid the VERO! :(
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Old 10-29-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Did they charge you? Will they try searching your house for any proof?
I think i need to start listing from Internet cafes.
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Old 10-29-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimhigh666 View Post
Did they charge you? Will they try searching your house for any proof?
I think i need to start listing from Internet cafes.
Thats really not going to stop law enforcement finding you if they want to...

Best thing to do is only list genuine items.
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Old 10-29-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

The thing is I was listing genuine items, how can they even state I wasn't? They have no proof of my products..

I really don't kno how these people work its more like bullying.. They left no contact number or anything.. I can't call just message.. ive had 2 people message me both with the same surname.... "bergstorm" so it does seem a bit fishy..
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  #21  
Old 10-29-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

If you are listing genuine items and you have all the receipts to prove that then I would not worry too much.

If there is a rights holder that wants your items to stop being sold on eBay then you would be best to either find a new product, or try to get their permission to sell the item on eBay.
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2014
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Default Re: Business software alliance

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNorth101 View Post
If you are listing genuine items and you have all the receipts to prove that then I would not worry too much.

If there is a rights holder that wants your items to stop being sold on eBay then you would be best to either find a new product, or try to get their permission to sell the item on eBay.
That's pretty much everything in a nutshell, In the end....the Rights Owner has 100% of the right to take the items down, even if they are bored...it doesn't matter.
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