Et$y - Notice of legal process seeking information

[sellerstealther]

as I said earlier, I only wrote them an email (one of three that etsy provided in its email to me) asking for access to the documents that etsy sent (it's a sharepoint link that was created by this law firm), apart from this email I have no intention of contacting them in the future or responding to their emails. I just wanted to review the documents. I didn't provide any information about me or the store and I didn't write anything like "I had no idea it was something bad, etc.", just a short e-mail asking for access to documents.

I followed their other stuff at c@urtlistener.c@m. For several months now, they have been suing sellers from amazon/ebay/redbubble/aliexpress alibaba wish etc... all related to a specific company and a specific trademark.

Originally Posted by degsey69

I know from experience where both eBay and Amazon were subpoenaed for my sales figures due to being sued over intellectual property rights and both refused to provide them (I was impressed by that and they have the right to do so under case law) so I was ordered by the court to produce them myself.

If you are in the EU I doubt that a small seller will be sued, I would just stop selling that item and ignore the lawyers trying to contact you, give no information to incriminate yourself, this is a civil matter

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by OldTom

Isn't that somewhat of a contradiction? In one breath you're (wrongly) saying that ALL marketplaces provide seller details to copyright owners and all government agencies (they don't) and then retract that blanket statement by saying 'if they can show a legitimate interest'.

I simply do not accept that, on the strength of an email, they would release a sellers information - that's why we have data protection laws.

Anyhoo, for @sellerstealther, I can only repeat what I said above, do not respond to anything, email or letter.

These legal firms make their money by threatening sellers, sometime legitimately I accept, to make a settlement with them. That's how they can offer this policing service for free or a modest retainer, to the copyright holders. They only make a living if you fold.

To make a claim they need to quantify the loss to the copyright holder - they can't do that or if they could it would, in your case, be a very small sum and not worth legally pursuing particularly to a non-resident. They make their money by relying on seller panicking and folding.

I've had letters, even had one send mock court papers which must have amounted to about 100 sheets of very serious looking paperwork, the whole gambit of threats. I have ignored them all and nothing ever comes of it.

At the risk of repeating myself, I can only repeat what I said above, do not reply to anything.

with VERO removals they provide that info automatically , with government they can not refuse anyway

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by degsey69

I know from experience where both eBay and Amazon were subpoenaed for my sales figures due to being sued over intellectual property rights and both refused to provide them (I was impressed by that and they have the right to do so under case law) so I was ordered by the court to produce them myself.

If you are in the EU I doubt that a small seller will be sued, I would just stop selling that item and ignore the lawyers trying to contact you, give no information to incriminate yourself, this is a civil matter

they provide all personal details though as soon as an item is removed through VERO

[degsey69]

Again through my personal experience, subpoenaed sales information from attorneys to eBay has to specific to any IP case and the patent they are going to sue you on. In my case I was selling 100’s of products in volume of different types, eBbay did not have the time or expertise to differentiate what was a complying VERO sale and what was not a VERO sale in order to comply with the order and posted to the court that due to this what was required by the attorneys was an unreasonable and un achievable under Rule 45 Subpoena.
So not all VERO cases information is passed along as eBay has to walk a thin line as they can be sued by the seller for not protecting their privacy in requested information. Believe me both eBay and Amazon washed their hands of the subpoena.

That’s in a civil case, criminal cases are different and information will be passed to government agencies and the police under a warrant issued by the courts.

If you are going to make statements murdered_by_ebay get it right.

[murdered_by_ebay]

below is 5.2 of the privacy policy , that clearly says they can disclose information. in many if not all cases they just send it on request without letting you know if the request was sent by a verified VERO participant


"Complying with information requests from third parties based on any statutory information rights they have against us (e.g. in the event of an intellectual property infringement, product piracy, or other unlawful activity)."

[OldTom]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

they provide all personal details though as soon as an item is removed through VERO

100% they do not.

Have you ever seen a VeRo removal request form?

I have because I hold trademarks. When I get an item removed I fill in the form and they remove it, they do not give me ANY personal details of the seller whatsoever. Nothing. Your claim is ridiculous.

[Freakzilla]

Just because they can, doesn't mean they do. What proof do you have that they do. I.e. it's actually happened not could happen?

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

below is 5.2 of the privacy policy , that clearly says they can disclose information. in many if not all cases they just send it on request without letting you know if the request was sent by a verified VERO participant


"Complying with information requests from third parties based on any statutory information rights they have against us (e.g. in the event of an intellectual property infringement, product piracy, or other unlawful activity)."

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

Just because they can, doesn't mean they do. What proof do you have that they do. I.e. it's actually happened not could happen?

at least in several european countries they provide that information , for example germany , maybe it varies from country to country but you can assume that there is no secret information in case of trademark complaints

in germany there is a system called "abmahnung" , you can google it , there are mass removals of items on ebay with subsequent legal action against sellers

the TO is from holland by the way , you can bet Germany and Holland are similar

[sellerstealther]

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...nincorporated/

what do you think about this 2021 legal process? the default judgment was $100k from each defendant. Trademark of M@sha and the Be@r

the text of the judgment in PDF at the bottom of the page

my case concerns another company's trademark

[rsot]

Originally Posted by sellerstealther

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...nincorporated/

what do you think about this 2021 legal process? the default judgment was $100k from each defendant. Trademark of M@sha and the Be@r

the text of the judgment in PDF at the bottom of the page

my case concerns another company's trademark

Seek legal opinion for research and comparison?

[TomWorks]

Any idiot can send a cease and desist letter, stop bumping this. Like you're freaking out over $50. $50 is the new $1, you think a lawyer half a way across the world has a case here? Relax madoff.

[davecore]

I’ve had a couple of these, all from the states. would it be avoidable to just not ship to USA ?

[aaa7z5]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

How do you know that?

They probably have, in any case in situations like these, you do need to assume they have all the info you were trying to change, and have already handed it over.

Dont log into that account or talk about it over email, and move on with life. Take it easy, dont worry about it. They wont bring you up on anything they cant prove, and even if they could...you wont be pursued because it would cost more to draw up a subpoena for your account anyway, that is why they reached out in the first place, hoping you would be one of the many that will react emotionally and indict yourself.

[Freakzilla]

Why have you replied to my comment?

Originally Posted by aaa7z5

They probably have, in any case in situations like these, you do need to assume they have all the info you were trying to change, and have already handed it over.

Dont log into that account or talk about it over email, and move on with life. Take it easy, dont worry about it. They wont bring you up on anything they cant prove, and even if they could...you wont be pursued because it would cost more to draw up a subpoena for your account anyway, that is why they reached out in the first place, hoping you would be one of the many that will react emotionally and indict yourself.