Forum

Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I started a new shop about a month ago and got 50 listings up and got two emails from etsy with the title "Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement". Apparently these guys were searching for titles containing the infringing trademarks and two were filed and the listings were removed - I noticed putting the words "inspired" in the title did not help one iota. The actual person doing the filing wasn't listed in the notices, and I'm assuming they were filed by the same person/program as both notices came into my email box at the exact same time, despite the trademarks belonging to two separate companies.

Reading online and finding that etsy has an unofficial "Three strikes and you're out!" policy, I essentially deactivated the shop as I can't risk my other longstanding accounts on there that have, so far, been unscathed.

So, couple of questions.

How do you find out if you're actually using a licensed trademark? Is there a trademark database I can programmatically check my titles against? I know some people are going to say "Use common sense", but there are common single words that I'm pretty sure aren't trademarked (Like "peanuts"), but could be useful in helping the searcher find what they're looking for, and it'd be nice to determine if my titles are 'safe'. Apparently one of the trademarks was licensed just this year, while it would've been safe to use 3 years ago, so someway to check an upto date trademark database to keep my titles 'safe' yet 'useful' would be pretty awesome.

Also, is there a scalable way to go etsy stealth? It seems that etsy requires SSN's from every user (And I doubt EINs would work), so it'd seem that you'd be limited by how many SSNs you had on hand. And, using other people's SSNs seems like it'd be illegal. (Assuming they pressed charges.)

I know that it seems like you can have upto 3 shops for one person, but any beyond that would seem to trigger manual review, which one would probably minimize if trying to escape etsy's radar.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

In my humble opinions ( I have had 3 shops down from similar situation but I got back up), stay away from what you are selling right now. Since it's much harder to get back on now. The simplest way is to not use those trademark words in the listing titles becuase they will get back and haunt you until you vanish. Only use trademark for tags, not for title and use Ad, that will get your listing appear in search without using trademark in titles.
But be careful, some evils will get you no matter what. I have 2 evil companies that accused me of using TM even though I did not have them in my titles at all. And e-ictchy did not even care to look. They took my listings off and after a few strikes, my shops got shut down.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I'm assuming they're using a program to do the filings, given how they were all filed in the same minute by (purportedly) different companies (Btw, if you're curious, Fox Networks and Zenimax Inc.), and if that's true, I doubt that using tags only is going to save your ass, as I'm assuming that all listings that show in the search get filed against. The words that got me targeted were highly specific (i.e., "Nuka Cola"), not something that joe scmoe tablecloths would show up for.

However... I just noticed that the one seller that had an identical item didn't get filed against, making me think he was involved in the filings considering he just came back from vacation today. I'm not sure how, exactly, he could have been involved but... the timing is impeccable.

Now, looking at all the other offenders on there for the exact same keyword that apparently didn't get affected, I guess I must've just "got lucky" somehow.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I found out that Vault Network, the maker of Fallout, was previously owned by Fox Network so I have a feeling that the lawyer who works for Fox still protects Vault Network's assets, which is just under Bethesda/Zenimax ownership now. So, both notices probably essentially came from Fox's lawyers.

It'd be nice if there was an easy way to figure out if a certain property ever belonged to Fox Networks, past or present. Might do a lot in the way of prevention.

Now I'm wondering if "Moulin Rouge", which affected that other etsy jewelry shop online, is owned by Fox? Seems like Fox might be the common wellspring of misery. I drove by Fox's little headquarters in Atlanta once, and I must've admit, there was something peculiar about the property. It was a mansion sitting oh so properly on the hill in the middle of the city in the distance, and something about it just looked too perfect, like in an evil kind of way. That, and my CDC visit there, was pretty evil. I swear parts of the city has an underlying evil hidden by a veneer of superficial perfection.

Hey, what do you know (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulin_Rouge!):

"Distributed by 20th Century Fox"

Lesson learned, watch out for what might be Fox's intellectual property (Or once was).

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

playing with trad.emark.s like hot fire. bang bang

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Actually, what does Fox Networks have to do with Fallout (i.e., Zenimax / Bethesda works)? I'm trying to find a hard connection, and I can't seem to find any. It looks like Fox used to own the "Vault Network", but according to the wikipedia for it,

It doesn't appear to have anything to do with Fallout. What does Fox Networks have to do with Zenimax, exactly? Is the same lawyer representing all these different companies' interests?

I doubt that the infringement was filed by a disinterested third party, as the Fox networks brand did the proper legal research (Cited trademark numbers and the such). However, Zenimax didn't file any particular numbers, instead citing a general DMCA 'copyright issue' without citing a trademark or other identifying numbers. (Even though, purportedly, they filed for a trademark on "nuka cola" this year.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

Still don't see a connection to Fox Networks, even after looking through the corporate affiliations with the "Board of Directors" and "Business advisory board". I guess I'm to conclude there's a single unknown lawyer/group out there whose (Probably auto-)filing all these infringement notices on the behalf of these various, unrelated companies. In essence, it's a minefield.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Wait, I'm starting to think I've found the perpetrator.

Ernest Del - Wikiwand

http://www.dsmtfl.com/images/g_image...nel-000003.jpg

So he represents interests like...

Zenimax
Bethesda Softworks
Fox Networks
WB Television Network
ABC Entertainment
NBC Entertainment
MGM

I'm assuming that this guy is on the look out for Zenimax IP on ebay and etsy, and files on the behalf of the interests of these other guys once he finds a target. It also seems like someone is actively looking for Fox Network violations (Probably this guy), given that casual use of 'Moulin Rouge' in the title got a jewelry store kicked off.

So..........

Known High risk brands
----------------
Zenimax/Bethesda works (Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom, Quake, etc.)
Fox Networks (A bunch of different movies and shows)

All the others in the list are of unknown practical risk.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Make you life easy, don't make counterfeit products using trademarked brands? If you know the brand you best be damn sure they have trademarks and copyrights. Only way you steer clear is obvious parody, and even that isn't a clear cut issue.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

It'd be counterfeit if you're trying to pass it off like it came from the company. Using the words "inspired" and "I make it at home" seems like it's pretty clear it's not coming from the company, so this is a simple "It looks like a character/logo/icon from my brand, hey, back off." kind of issue, which was the case with Zenimax's nuka cola.

The trademark is simply using words from the brand that have been trademarked and, yep, you can't really avoid those issues unless you simply don't use the trademarked words/phrases. I'm thinking more careful wording of the titles with more generic words and less brand specific words would probably help mitigate identification risk, in addition to simply avoiding Zenimax/Fox brands. That particular listing came from a product I made at the custom request for someone else, so I should have been more careful in making it publicly available but I didn't know who the adversaries were, exactly. Now I know (At least some of them).

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I scoured the internets, and compiled this list of known past pursuers on etsy. Seems like this issue was more extensive than I first imagined.

Copyright Infringement-Why Etsy will Shut your Shop Down « Beth Picard
https://www.reddit.com/r/Etsy/commen...ice_copyright/
https://rusetsy.wordpress.com/2013/1...-infringement/
Etsy: The Fuzzy Line of Creativity and Trademark/Copyright Infringement | Twilight Lexicon

Known infringement pursuers
----------(bethipcard)-------------
Chanel
Tiffany (Using phrases like "Tiffany blue")
Talyor Swift (Used "Country girly" in the title, and also "Country boy")
Collegiate Licensing Company (words like “Roll Tide” and even “Go Tigers”)
John Deere
Mattel (Barbie)
(Disney, purportedly in the past? Anecdotal.)
Warner Bros (Lord of the rings)
Hershey
(Didn't name names, but possibly Frozen and Spiderman? Read between the lines.)
NCAA collegiate trademark management company
AMC (Someone sent their "Team Daryl" product to AMC. Also, another person got pinged for "Dixon Crossbow Academy")
Gerber (Used 'onesie' in the title)
Sanrio ("Hello Kitty")
----(reddit)-------
Lionsgate (Hunger games)
Valve (Portal)
Namco (Pacman and Pacman Ghost)
(Recommended places to sell art, Storenvy or DeviantArt)
------rusetsy.wordpress.com-----
Fox Entertainment (Title used "Moulin Rouge")
------twilightlexicon.com--------
Summit ("twilight" in the title)

(Other recommended places, Cafepress. Artfire.)

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I seriously think you need to talk to an attorney if you even believe a tenth of what you just said because it's going to come back and bite you. :doh:

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I admire your dedication and perseverance swbluto. I'm sorry I don't have anything to contribute to the thread, but I learned a lot reading your research!

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I seriously doubt this guy will be bitten by anything. I don't understand your reasoning. OP seems intelligent

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

They honestly think using phrases and disclaimers protects them against claims and noticing that it was made at home makes it dandy. That's stupid and honestly partly why Etsy has made it so difficult to get back on. Looking at their forums these same stupid comments are made on a regular basis. "If I put a mickey mouse like image made using freezer paper on a shirt and put inspired by am I violating copyright?" ....

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I didn't say it wasn't a copyright issue... Copyrights are a civil issue(Read lawsuits) while counterfeits (Pretending the goods came from the designer/manufacturer, such as ⊗⊗⊗⊗ Chinese bags passed off as Gucci on eBay) are a federal crime. The major difference is one of fraud, that is, the intent to deceive. No one is deceiving anybody by saying "it's inspired by" and "I make it at home"; if one were to claim it's an authentic good from the IP owner, now that'd be a counterfeit/federal issue.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

You're clearly making sells off someones brand and aren't paying them and are looking for ways around it. This isn't what this forum is for.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

No, that's completely wrong. I'm not making videogames.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Yeah, cause video game companies don't make other products nowadays? :rolleyes:

Good luck keeping stores with your inert thinking.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

You are ignoring OP's problem and are attacking him/her instead. That's not what this forum is about. :nono:

What's the point of haggling people on the internet?

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I've been on here going on six years and it's disheartening to read posts asking how to use other peoples works or trademarks/copyrights to drive sales. This forum has never been about helping sell "bad" products.

As someone who regularly licenses their work reading these posts is getting tiresome. Make your own original stuff or become a reseller. I'm not the only one having issues with this as others have been messaging me privately about the matter and I felt it was time to speak up about this.

If you sell "bad" products, we aren't going to help you.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I make my own products, and in no way use any of the work created by the original owner. That's not the issue, the issue is using the names of related products in the title to draw buyers and getting some kind of trademark violation for it filed through Etsy. That's clearly different than what you're thinking and you 'speaking out about it' is only tilting at windmills. I obviously don't need your help as I'm clearly figuring this out through experience. Etsy's second chances allows smart guys like me to persist and succeed by learning to adapt to newly discovered challenges in the environment. That is unlike ebay, which will pull the rug out from underneath you without even a single warning. (Why I'm here to begin with and no way was that related to trademarks.)

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

http://www.insidecounsel.com/2011/11...k-in-marketing

I seriously, again, advise you seek counsel.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I'm actually interested in this topic, not enough to seek counsel so maybe you can give me your 2 cents...

If I draw/paint, say Elsa from Disney's Frozen in Photoshop then print it to a canvas, and try to sell it using 'Frozen Inspired'... even though it's done in my own artistic style and not copied from any official Disney's photo, am I still infringing?

Without me, this item would have never existed, and isn't a direct copy of anything... and currently the rules of aspkin state that there is to be no talk about selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ items... so I believe there is open discussion/advice asking on items of this nature.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Even though I believe it's legal, that won't stop your competitors from filing trademark infringement claims to take you down if they want to, regardless if it's defensible in court given that etsy likes to 'play it safe' by default. And, with platforms like etsy, it's better to not push it too far given its defacto no questions asked, no appeals likely to succeed perma-ban nature.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Google derivative works. They belong to the copyright/trademark holder. You'd still be infringing.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Wikipedia

For example, this is protected.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Lisa_LHOOQ.jpg

By this definition, I'm almost completely sure I'm protected by copyright but that honestly doesn't matter to etsy's "Fold 'em no matter what" policy. What's common on etsy that wouldn't be protected by copyright, however, is direct art reproductions of the original (And that's pretty rampant from party bags to t-shirts).

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Look, I've dealt with copyrights and trademarks in my shops and professionally for over a decade. If you don't want to take my advice, fine, but seek counsel or face consequences of your ignorance down the road. It's clear that you don't understand satire, political, commentary fair use vs copyright holders rights that override in most applications and common use. Still, Etsy or Ebay or Amazon isn't there to argue with you over Fair Use, that's what courts are for. If you get a DMCA that's unfair, file a counterclaim. Otherwise, deal with losing stores or go file a lawsuit if you feel you've been wronged and can argue fair use. These venues, regardless of their other ignorant policies, have to follow basic federal laws when it comes to rights notices or otherwise can be sued themselves. There isn't a way around it and pleading to them isn't going to work. Seek legal advice.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Yo, I know my own product. And, when my own work is substantial and definitely bears my 'personality', it's protected. But, etsy is a bunch of pansies. Granted, they did let me file a counter claim as per the DMCA, but it's easier to just be more careful (And calculating) in the future. Once an account gets two hits, I'd say it's toast regardless of whatever happens afterwards as the risks are too great. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and I'm looking at more viable longterm expansion strategies.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

this thread is hilarious. people ste.aling property like it's their's. have fun. you won't last for sh*t. i dont give a rats a$$ how you want to convolute the situation you have created, you make money off of stea.ling designs, property, trademarks, etc.

no preaching will convince you otherwise, clearly. just accept your scumbag lifestlye.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Well...go pay to copyright it to protect it for damages if it's your design and go get the trademark of the in commerce product name. Shouldn't have any issues after that, right? :pop2:

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

You're a moron and you obviously don't know my business. You realize this $400 drawing tablet I have doesn't just sit there unused, do you? The issue is the use of particular words in the title, the designs are all my original work. I just need to exercise more care in how I craft my tags and titles and these issues *poof* disappear. I'm assuming the guy filed a copyright on the listing instead of a trademark because, even though he applied for a trademark earlier in the year, he hadn't yet been granted one yet but yet felt like the words were STILL HIS so he threw a tantrum and filed the most fallacious claim ever. Want to know how I know? I searched the USPTO, that's how (P.S. "Nuka Cola" is NOT LISTED.). It's not worth my energy fighting it, however, as I still consider the account a goner and I can always startup new ones.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

You guys need to stop attacking the guy... calling him a scumbag/talking down to him; you act like he's ripping a image off of google images and printing it onto a backpack/poster or something... from what I gather he's putting his own artistic spin on popular stuff, putting in the work to create something new and original, although inspired, and I've yet to see a clear answer here, or google, that this is wrong or illegal. Can eb/ama/etsy still take it down? of course, they can take down anything-- but is it WRONG? I don't know... I don't think so.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Serial Number Reg. Number Word Mark Check Status Live/Dead
1 86250303 NUKA COLA TSDR LIVE
2 86250306 NUKA COLA TSDR LIVE
3 86715319 NUKA COLA TSDR LIVE
4 86250300 NUKA COLA TSDR LIVE
5 79108853 4848364 NUKA COLA TSDR LIVE


Talk to a lawyer.

Of course no one here knows your business. You keep asking about using trademarks to target business of name brands. That's a likelihood of confusion. That violates trademark law and there's tons of cases from federal court about it. You don't seem to understand this, nor the fact that registration for trademarks isn't necessary under the Lanham Act, so instead of asking for help in this manner on the forum you need to go have a consult with a lawyer.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Oh, wrong search. I was doing the 'design mark' search.

Looks like 319 is about "Services IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: metal key chains, headphones; video game accessories, watches and jewelry; collectible bottle caps; collectible statues, posters; artwork; notebooks; calendars; wall decals and stickers; books; comic books, wallets; messenger bags; backpacks; leather key chains; leather portfolios; purses; belts; lunch boxes; cups and mugs; glassware; shot glasses, shower curtains; towels, clothing, namely, shirts, sweatshirts, sweaters, fleece pullovers, jackets and leggings; headwear, namely, hats; footwear, namely, sneakers; socks, bobble-head dolls; plush toys; action figure toys; snowboards; board games; card games; replica weapons; puzzles".

While this is the closest category to the product I was offering, my particular product isn't listed here, so I'm guessing that's why he didn't file this particular trademark number and instead went with claims of copyright violation, even though that would be certainly defensible in court.

And, no need to talk to a lawyer. I'm not selling the product anymore (It's not that important), and it was a simple cease and desist. Just kind of some bull****.

It's a good thing this happened, though, because all of these product categories are giving me ideas for new product lines, lol.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Now this is odd. All 3 orders since 8 this morning have been "Still processing" in my main account (As of 6 p.m. right now). Considering that's NEVER happened before, I wonder if they're in the process of making a decision to shut down my accounts because of some kind of subpoena that's going through? (And here I was thinking that etsy was the land of "opportunity to learn from your mistakes" / second chances.)

I know I'm a worst case thinker (Despite trying to maintain external optimism in the face of those thoughts in the back of my mind, at least publicly), but, a 10+ hour delay on 3 separate orders being processed seems really peculiar, especially given the timing. The worst processing delay there's been has been 2 hours long, and that was on one order, not every single order since some time at least 10 hours ago.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

If I get a lawsuit, then they're going to have to suck my dick. I have no seizable assets those greedy jewish lawyers can have and that's by design. (Not that I did that because I was expecting a lawsuit, lol, I just wanted to minimize my exposure to the freaking government that seems to be getting greedier and more corrupt every year that passes.)

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Now I'm upto 4 orders just chilling in processing since 8 this morning. (Some biggies, too.)

If I'm forced to restart, I'm going to be forced to hit the ground running with the new accounts I start up. I need to pay for my upcoming luxury cruise somehow, lol.

(Well, one just came through, so I guess today is just an unusually slow day for processing.)

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

I only read the first post by OP not entire thread but all I can say is ...

Using words like "inspire, like, similar" basically ANYTHING that is relating your product to another is a VERY easy way to get yourself in trouble, ebay/etsy.

Best to not use the word or just at the last words of the title. I use other brands in my listings but I do it smartly. I don't do it on every brand and the ones I do I know my buyers aren't going to cause me issues for having added that brand.

Some people genuinely don't mind it if its truly similar to what they are looking for. In my case they say might be looking for something that generally costs $75-$125 and since I'm selling it for about $40 its a EASY sale, EVERYTIME.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

Very sage advise. I noticed on the USPTO site that single words that already exist generally aren't trademarked, which is quite handy if you're trying to link a brand that uses a single dictionary word. Also makes it hard for would be lawyers to find your particular listing, but would be easy for the few buyers who are searching for /exactly/ your kind of product. Brand Identifying phrases that would be buyers rarely use, but lawyers commonly do (Such as "nuka cola"), I'm going to avoid altogether. Also, yeah, I think I'm going to put some words towards the end and use generics at the beginning. In general, I'm going to avoid what now appears to be risky products in the future.

Re: Etsy's Notice of Intellectual Property Infringement
 

My orders are taking an exceptionally long time to process (12+ hours, not one has taken less since yesterday). It's clear to me they're getting manually approved by etsy, which is why it's taking so long. I wonder what they're checking for? Are they doing an ongoing risk evaluation on my sales? Are they worried I'm a flight risk or something? lol.

I was thinking I was going to start a new user the day after the event, after things died down, but it's clear that it hasn't really died down just yet on etsy's side, lol. Maybe next week.

Edit: Apparently this is a blue moon event.

From etsy:

So, I guess the issue may have blown over already. I'll still give it a week.