Why the Hivemind?

[aspkin]

The forum has a BIG problem with hive mind like consensus to questions posed in the forum. When a question is asked I rarely see out of the box thinking and when I do see it, the hive mind teams up against those who oppose their way of thinking. Why is this happening?

I have seen it go as far as ridiculing and alienating others to a point where it lowers participation.

How can we stop this from happening?

The forum was created to help formulate new ideas, bring in out of the box thinkers and not to turn them away. It's when we have other points of view that our way of thinking grows.

What can we do to turn things around?

[jeffweico]

Can you give us a couple of example threads?

[aspkin]

This is an overall problem, not limited to specific threads but here is a recent one: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...-increase.html

And another: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...ly-reason.html

OP may have a point or is thinking out of the box but it doesn't seem to matter if it goes against the hivemind way of thinking. Why is this happening?

[jeffweico]

I think that we are all guilty of this to some degree. The thing is, we each have our own firsthand experience when dealing with eBay/PayPal/Amazon and it is hard for us to accept others' experiences as valid.

The second part of it is members seeing hivemind and piling on. They read, for example, that we are totally against using a family member's information and then jump on the bandwagon when posting.

For me, I read the thread and thought that yes, using someone's information rather than stealth information is not a good thing, especially is the person is doing something shady, like selling counterfeits. But that is different from two people going into business together. That may or may not be a good idea, but it is really not the focus of the forum and these are two separate things.

What can be done about it, I don't know. I'll think about it.

[rsot]

I have done experimenting with things that aren't promoted in the forum - both legit and illegit...I don't share everything because yes, there are things that don't work and it is seen in the questions that come out. Lots of questions come out about counterfeits and using real people info which is not in the nature of the forum.

About the ridiculing and alienating...that's just plain wrong but threads do aim to minimize problems especially for the new users. Of course there's more involved but it's one way of looking at things - just keep it simple for the new people who read the threads.

I haven't finished this train of thought yet (long drive, just arrived) but there will be more to follow.

[aspkin]

Originally Posted by rsot

About the ridiculing and alienating...that's just plain wrong but threads do aim to minimize problems especially for the new users. Of course there's more involved but it's one way of looking at things - just keep it simple for the new people who read the threads.

While that's great making things easy for new users, the forum is more than just a support portal. It's for formulating new ideas. The hivemind tends to want to shut that down quickly. And that alienates those who want to push the boundaries and find new ways to do things. I'm one of those that like to push the boundaries and find all possible ways to get things done. If I didn't set this forum up I feel I would have a hard time adding to the conversation for fear of being ridiculed for not going along with the flow of things. This has to be the case for others..

[aspkin]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

I think that we are all guilty of this to some degree. The thing is, we each have our own firsthand experience when dealing with eBay/PayPal/Amazon and it is hard for us to accept others' experiences as valid.

That's perfectly fine and that's where constructive discussions are formulated. You don't have to agree with everything a person says (I rarely do) but to openly rebuke a person (not saying you do this but the hivemind) and to close yourself to other possibilities is not only a personal problem but when it's brought to the forum overtly and prominently it becomes a forum problem. The hivemind is doing this..

[miketyson]

I always like to think outside the box. I've tried and tested the boundries over and over again. I'm thinking it boils down to forum rep. They just shoot you down IE: you don't know nothing because you don't have hours of activity or thousands of posts. Alright I will act like I don't know anything and keep my posts to myself!

[dealagreeproceed]

also alot of people on forum don't want certain things to get out in fear of people burning up their methods so this in turn can lead to "hivemind" as well. understandable tho... cant just give away everything you know especially things you discover the hard way through error n trials etc...

[Callidus]

From what I have seen there are a lot of the more 'senior members' that have a tendency to try and intimidate new users, not only them but some other users as well, granted.

Getting a straight answer is like gold dust (I know I am not the only person who feels that this is the case)

I don't know why when someone posts something simple, it turns into a full scale debate between contributors as to who's right and who's wrong. Answer the question originally posted and help the OP make an informed decision.

[miketyson]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

also alot of people on forum don't want certain things to get out in fear of people burning up their methods so this in turn can lead to "hivemind" as well. understandable tho... cant just give away everything you know especially things you discover the hard way through error n trials etc...

This is not true. There's some stuff that can be outside the box and not get burnt up!

[dealagreeproceed]

I agree Mike sometimes yes... seems people come here looking for all the answers to their problems without even doing a lick of research sometimes which can be kind of annoying. a lot of answers you will not get straight forward except for the basics...

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by aspkin

This is an overall problem, not limited to specific threads but here is a recent one: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...-increase.html

And another: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...ly-reason.html

OP may have a point or is thinking out of the box but it doesn't seem to matter if it goes against the hivemind way of thinking. Why is this happening?

In the inside scoop thread, the OP riled other users with an attitude. He did some smart editing that amended the final words.

In the family friend thread, status of doing this changed since the book was written. Responses were more of attempting to protect OP.

[aspkin]

Yes, I read the threads. I participated in the threads. As mentioned already, 'This is an overall problem, not limited to specific threads'

To say it's the OP fault isn't an answer. That's not the problem. The problem is the hivemind mentality that is closed off to new ideas and out of the box thinking. And this way of thinking isn't being checked... Hmm...

[GreenBean]

Answer this then:

Background..... couple of years back a refund of .01 cent meant paypal funds got released.

This forum managed to avoid broadcasting it to all in sundry. Nevertheless, it eventually got closed.

What is going to happen when the new ideas and workarounds become brandied about all over the forum?

Is that not giving an edge to ebay/paypal/amazon?

Forum is a whole bunch of people whose first thoughts are for themselves. That leads to hivemind mentality.

[aspkin]

Okay, I think I found the problem. Lol.

Dang it, GB.

[oompaloompa]

like rsot -Partly through necessity or curiousity, Ive ignored the concensus on alot of stuff and it has worked out, in fact I cannot think of anything I tried that did not work out.....I sometimes give counter advice to the consensus and whilst I always give them the risk/reward balance, I see alot of 'dont do it' posts...but I understand that a forum has to give best and safest advice, but balance and thinking outside the box inc. a warning of risk is a really helpful alternative and discussions should not be shut down if on legit lines...

[dealagreeproceed]

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Answer this then:

Background..... couple of years back a refund of .01 cent meant paypal funds got released.

This forum managed to avoid broadcasting it to all in sundry. Nevertheless, it eventually got closed.

What is going to happen when the new ideas and workarounds become brandied about all over the forum?

Is that not giving an edge to ebay/paypal/amazon?

Forum is a whole bunch of people whose first thoughts are for themselves. That leads to hivemind mentality.

I agree only so much can be shared out in the open.

[slapped]

There is also another issue that contributes to the Hivemind mentality of other members responses that I do not see a solution for, other than Deletion,,,and that is Bona Fide Bad Information, I have seen it over and over, again and again, a Member Posts a flat out incorrect respose to an issue in a thread, or even worse defends it as if it were a stone cold fact, so yes if other members gang up on such a member who makes such a post, in my view its understandable, and also you must realize that such a situation is a VERY common occurance

[Klemantina]

Most of the people do have what you call "out of the box ideas" or interesting thoughts but they just dont want to share them because of the huge competition in this area.
I wouldn't share some of my ideas for free for sure, same as most of the forum members wouldn't even bother answering some simple questions if i'll not pay them. The whole idea of sharing is nice but we live in a different reality.

[animekings99]

Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

also alot of people on forum don't want certain things to get out in fear of people burning up their methods so this in turn can lead to "hivemind" as well. understandable tho... cant just give away everything you know especially things you discover the hard way through error n trials etc...

u got that right just found out one good trick for making an ebay acc

[xShevaa7x]

I understand that people do not wish to share certain techniques and methods, and that's right to do that, but it seems when people ask questions a lot of people either;

1. Don't read it and post quickly
2. Ridicule the person for doing or asking something
3. Post generic answers which are not in the slightest bit helpful. Like Callidus said

Getting a straight answer is like gold dust (I know I am not the only person who feels that this is the case)

4. A lot of forums on the internet are guilty for this, but people just say to use the search bar. This is sometimes correct, and some people don't use search function, however i'm guessing a lot have. When you search for something specific in the search, usually an exact cannot be found due to people doing #3 or the thread is very old, and as such no longer relevant.

This is my experience as a new member. Some older members have been very helpful and nice, however some seem to just post cryptic messages and lead users on a merry chase. It's fine to not want to post your methods, but if you're not going to share it, why bother posting anything about it at all. I feel you should either post it, PM them or don't post at all. What is the point posting subtle hints about certain methods? If you're doing it so "outsiders" don't see the method, well how is the "noob" suppose to understand what you're saying too.

Even though I haven't seen it posted here, i'm sure some people care about their post count. I haven't been active on any forums for around 4-5 years, however used to be a Moderator on two forums, one smaller than this community and one bigger with vast amounts of trading. We had members just posting useless crap to higher their post count. People thought that the higher their post count, the higher "member" they are in the community, when really people just hated their useless spam all over the forum (posting generic answers, in my eyes is just spam to get post count up).

• Arrogant new users or bull****ters deserve to be put down, but 99% of new users posting are just naive and should be guided, and if they post something wrong or silly, should be told why. People never learn unless you tell them why they're wrong. If someone was to tell me i'm wrong, I wouldn't accept or respect that answer unless they tell me why i'm wrong.
  
• Criticism is useless because it makes new posters scared or put off by posting questions (this is how i felt, not scared, but I thought i'm probably not going to get an answer, or get someone try and berate me in front of everyone).
  
• Criticism is good IF you turn it from criticism into constructive criticism. If you feel someone is wrong, tell them why they're wrong.
  
• I know some people feel it's wrong to give people all the answers after you have worked hard to obtain them through experience, but I feel it's wrong to tease people and lead them on a merry goose chase for asking a question.
  
• People complain here that's hard to get an answer from Amazon, eBay and Paypal when you ask them something, but a lot of the time it's like that here because some members who people everywhere, just give a genetic answer like it's posted from a script like one of those call workers, or live chat people.
  
• Certain things get posted over and over again, and it can seem it's fair to post a generic response to that. The problem is, these questions need to be posted over and over again. One question has so many answers because the answer changes due to a persons country, selling patterns, when they're asking (old answers in search function), what they're selling, how much they're selling it for and many other things. Everyone as a person is different, and everyone eBay situation is different too.
  
• Also sometimes people give false information (usually when it's answering a question from a country they have no experience with), which is much worse than not posting anything at all. I think if you give an answer, you should say how you got that answer (just like in maths ) even if it's from experience, say it's from my experience doing this.

First impressions are important. I found this site from google, as do most people, and if people see rudeness etc, they might be put off.

I think it's good to have this in a community: New users should look up to old members, but old members should not look down upon new users.

You can take this post how you like, as a new member, these were my experiences thus far. I personally like these forums, however they are the my honest feelings.