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Is it possible to have a major auction site that doesn't suspend people right & left?
 

I go back as far as 1999 on eBay, so I've been along for the ride along with many others here. Reading some of the horror stories certainly doesn't reinforce faith in the long-term viability of major-venue online auctions. eBay has needed serious head-to-head competition for a long time; I remember how Yahoo was looking like that (I listed there & was getting a few sales), but then they pulled the stupid insertion-fee move and didn't revisit and rescind until it was too late. I also thought Yahoo was trying to follow a fundamentally flawed model in trying to have a site without enough employees to look over it.

It's a bit discouraging now to read about Amazon apparently having a loose trigger finger on suspensions as well. It seems like Russian Roulette with a 500 or even 1,000-chambered gun and one bullet, i.e. if you list low risk items but do it enough, chances of something happening for any one listing are quite low, but cumulatively over time they're pretty high. I'm not sure the news media has this totally on their radar screens yet (they're too busy covering the escort-service flap on Craigslist).

My not-so-encouraging theory is that the area has not only "matured" but gotten over-lawyered. The big sites with presumably deep pockets get paranoid and pull first and ask questions later. Only corporate clients get exempted.

Smaller sites can be less fussy, but only because they don't have the traffic.

What's the answer? Back a site based in a country other than the U.S.?

have a look at Bonanzle.com...They are growing fast.

A community marketplace website has to be designed to not suspend people left and right or a lot of times, it'll do that. I designed my site to not suspend people left and right, but that was built into the design from the beginning.

However, history has proven that sellers flock to sites that suspend them left and right. Look at all the evidence and all the big sites. Sellers know many site websites are like that but huge amounts of people list on them anyway. Amazon.com has most of the same problems as eBay, but people have long considered it to be the main alternative whereas there have been many ebay alternatives since around 1999-2001 that have been ignored in favor of amazon.com, though the big ones also are suspending left and right.

Bonanzle is a good example. It's very similar to ioffer, except ioffer has a reputation for being very lax on sellers, allowing fa kes, etc. Pretty soon bonanzle will have to deal with the fa kes issue and they'll be backed into a corner and have to start suspending people just as much as the other sites, though not as much as ioffer. Then all the suspended users will return again and again on bonanzle just like on every website and so bonanzle will have to deal with that.

Selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ as genuine and ripping off people for money is illegal, not moral and unethical. I can only justify suspensions in those cases. The problem is that Ebay and Amazon became too big too fast, so that's where the things got out of hand while many taking advantage of the system and others being suspended for no reason.

The key factor is traffic and people will go where the traffic is. iOffer allowed ⊗⊗⊗⊗ from the beginning and its kinda late in the game now and unlikely that C.O.P.S can do anything to change the image and reputation it acquired over time. Bonanzle is not making this mistake so I see great future for them. With rapid growth of internet and possibly their own growth, Bonanzle may very well face the same issues the few big ones have and make their own share of mistakes in the process.. But, at this time and age it's just the nature of the beast.

From what I've seen, Bonanzle will delete ⊗⊗⊗⊗ listings with a quickness. If it's genuine, you're all good.

The reason sellers flock to the sites Jonas mentioned - those sites ran advertisements, affiliate campaigns, good SEO, and other 'in your face' practices. They developed a base early on.That's where the buyers go, so that's where the sellers want to be.

As we are seeing more and more, these past few years, those sites didn't plan ahead. Now they're putting out fires. Quite indiscriminately. It will bite them in the behind. There is evidence of this already. Sellers feel it and buyers have begun to notice.

The next generation of venue is beginning to finally grow out of the baby shoes and pull-ups. The grand-daddies are losing their juice. I really don't think eBay is going to last much longer, other than as a shadow of its former self. Amazon won't be far behind, although Amazon still has a chance to evolve. I doubt they will do so. Not enough brains upstairs.

The savvy sellers are jockeying up and feeling out the newcomer sites. The not so savvy are struggling and generally frustrated.

The latest eBay did in may was now when buyers buy 100 items, pay for none, and leave all sellers negative feedback, then eBay won't suspend them for unpaid items, and now it's hell on eBay. At the same time, eBay sales are dwindling and most buyers on eBay are fraudsters doing credit card fraud constantly.

I'm going to try to be able to get most of my income off eBay as soon as I can.

eBay sucks however you cant believe everything you read and hear.

eBay has got to the point fraud cant be controlled, they have billions of users and

eBay no longer has live chat for how many people use eBay.

eBay does not make enough to stop the fraud, it is pretty much impossible for how big they are.

Any new website that gets as big as ebay will have problems unless it is run like Amazon.com I firmly believe.

dalex08, like the Australian Payments Clearing Association determined for paypal, is the same as for eBay.

eBay tried to stop fraud to buyers by pushing it all on to sellers. The result is a whole lot more fraud. Up until 2007, I had one chargeback a year from eBay. In 2008, it was about 4 a year. 2009, it's one a month. Every one of them is buyers getting stuff delivered to their home and then pulling scams. They usually do it for $1-$10 items, too, so even when I win, the chargeback fee costs more many times the charge.

When I buy on eBay, I find mostly sellers really jittery from all the fraud buyers around. Sellers are acting really odd, like in movies where there's a character that's a slave that's been abused too much, that's how most sellers act like now. It's scary.

Jonas has the right idea, in having a goal to GET OFF EBAY! It is well documented that they are slowly falling off.

As for Bonanzle...
There are PLENTY of fa_kes on there. There is a member here selling them on Bonanzle, but they are very GOOD at hiding it. Every auction site that gains ANY publicity, will attract these people/items. The replica market is SO large, that there are more fa_kes being sold than the real things.

:fight:

You're not thinking to your advantage here.

The fact that websites are hot on the suspension side of things, is most ceretainly not a bad thing. At the end of the day, if you played any website by the rules, you would not get suspended.

If there was no focus on suspension, then any marketplace would get flooded with scammers who have nothing to sell, and counterfeits. Naturally, both of these instances will present lower prices that you yourself could offer, hence, you'd be seeing no sales.

So as far as I can see, unless you're scamming someone, or selling counterfeits (the latter seems to be fairly fashionable around here), then you would wish suspensions were scarce.

Anyone with a half decent business model, appreicates that in order to keep a marketplace favourable for sellers, buyers, and within the law - suspensions ARE necessary.

Very well said mantisinc. :clap:

dude thats just NOT TRUE - maby baby sellers selling a few hundred in a month can survive on ebay but I have found that how ever I try to conform and as straight as I try to fly ebay and or paypal WILL find a reason to FREEZE YOUR FUNDS and stop you from selling -

I have had the reason of being "HIGH RISK"

A CLAIM THAT MY INFORMATION DIDN'T MATCH "Experian" which was completely untrue I faxed and email social birth cerf and they will still hold your money because your "HIGH RISK"

Anybody bringing in more than 10k a month is not gonna make it on ebay because you "COULD RUN AWAY"

regardless of a track record or positive feedback they only want sellers like BEST BUY and WALMART to do big numbers and if your not one of them than step aside because your gonna be getting shut down point blank

Eseller, I'm sorry, but that's simply not true.

Sure, eBay are leaning towards larger sellers, because they can see it's an advantage to have a marketplace more like Amazon.

However, there is still plenty of room for normal sellers like you and I.

Regardless of what you say, if you're selling legitimate products, eBay will not get in your way. Okay, agreed - they may put a few limitations on you in the process. But this is simply to verify who you are, what you're selling is legit, and to ensure you're actually sending out the goods.

Once you've given tracking numbers, ID, supplier info, as long as you don't get extortionate amounts of disputes, they'll leave you alone.

Of course if you're linked to other suspended accounts, then you'll have trouble. But if you conformed in the first place, of course this wouldn't have happened.

I'm the first to admit that some of eBay and Paypal's practises are not on top form. And there is certainly a lot of room for improvement in my eyes. However, for someone to say that an online sales venue is better without suspensions and stronghold over the user base, I think that's a load of old tosh.

What ever happened to FREEDOM OF CHOICE???


eBay uses people who commit fraud (who are a very small percentage nowadays) as an excuse to take away rights from everyone else (similar to what the American government did after 911)


We are protecting you . . . that's bull


how many millions of dollars has pay pal held from seller who have received positive feedback for their items???


how many of those sellers don't know that their funds 'BY LAW' are available after 180 days???


sure things like fraud ought to be stopped and I am not even against a 21 day hold on large amounts of funds but everybody should also have the right to sell their good and be compensated for their hard work


And don't I have the right to buy from a crappy seller????

That's the thing with ebay - you have FEEDBACK so anybody with some sense can make an educated decision about who the would like to buy from

so lets say a seller had 88% feedback but the item I want is bidding for $100 less than everyone else . . .


Ok I will take a risk and try to save myself $100 dollars . . . or someone else will say no and decide to bid on an item from a power seller but now everyone is held to a power sellers standards and if your not 98% than your dirt and not allowed to sell???



This is not fair . . . . what if I want to buy from a crappy seller to save money



Ok so theirs a seller who ships his items FAST and I can tell because of the feedback



The same thing applies here - if I want faster shipping service I can decide for myself


Seller 'A' has 4.5 stars on shipping and Seller 'B' has only 3.5



If I NEED my item faster than I can pay more . . . but ebay is a monopoly and that is the way that they operate . . . . . they don't want you to choose I am sure if they could retail all the items for sale on ebay themselves they would



Everybody shouldn't have to be a power seller to have the right to sell online and people should have the right to choice who to buy from . . . . ebay is NOT for the small or medium business anymore they are for screwing the little guys and propping up the big guys (aka Walmart,Best Buy, buy.com....ect.) and slowly but surely that will be their down fall because if I wanted to shop at walmart I would just go to walmart

people goto ebay for everything not just walmart

I agree with eseller.... when you read stuff coming out of ebay like, "our homepage still looks like a garage sale" that in itself tells you ebay doesn't want people selling their "junk" anymore. they want big companies. why do you think every paypal account gets limited so quickly now? trying to get rid of you and me..

Perhaps I'm foolish for thinking so, but it doesn't seem impossible for a band of sellers, exactly like we have here on the aspkin forums, to develop and market a new auction site, together as one.

Auction software is readily available on the web, so it's ultimately a matter of getting the word out and winning market share. And a band of sellers could use SEO, PPC, affiliate marketing and press releases to help spread the word. If the new auction site is well-polished, looks professional and trustworthy, I think it could have the potential for becoming a hot topic in the blogosphere, which would give the new auction site even more authority on the web.

Another bonus of having a group of sellers work together, besides sharing the investment costs, is that right from day one, a wide range of goods from various categories will be available to buyers. Every category must have representation.

The new auction site must persuade visitors that its value supercedes that of eBay. Smart shoppers will undoubtedly compare the cost of goods on the new auction site with the cost of goods on eBay. If the prices are more expensive on the new site it will only work to only emphasize the belief that eBay has the lowest prices of goods on the internet (because market forces have been in play for years).

my thoughts exactly
 

my thoughts exactly :bounce:

We just need a few BIG retails from every sector to get on board and we can give them a run for their money




:typing: WORKING HARD CLEANING UP EBANZA hopefully our feebay juggling act can end soon :juggle:

VERY WELL SAID!

And whoever wants to get it started, let's getting to planning.

I'm in.:clap:

"if you played any website by the rules, you would not get suspended."

Sorry folks but this is just not true that if you keep your nose clean, provide good customer service and dont sell ⊗⊗⊗⊗ you will be ok on eBay!

The corrupt and infamous star system is grossly unfair to smaller sellers because you can easily get screwed over by a few bad or cranky buyers leaving a neg at the wrong time. Because the system works on a % and so few buyers are leaving fb now or using the stars its more likely that those who do will be the disgruntled and hard to please ones. If you ship international or heavy goods your stars can get hammered. Then you get one or two cranky buyers leaving a neg or neut and you fall foul of the famout "SNP" policy for your record over the last 30 days. No one at eBay looks at the good service you provided for the last 12 months or so.

I have seen one after another smaller sellers go down in the UK and US - and powersellers of years standing. They got suspended and had no cashflow to pay their staff so they folded.

My bet as an ex academic is that in 10 to 20 years people will be writing books and papers on how eBay slowly went down the pan through the classic mistake of ignoring its real customers - the sellers.

inverser, SevnSins, what do you guys retail???


I am coding ebanza everyday, give me your ideas and I will setup it up . . . I have been working on the stores lately - their are going to be separate from the site and act like their own stores like amazon pro except their will be free not $100 per month . . . . Let me know what you guys are selling and I can theme a store for you needs:typing:

I focus on mostly sporting goods & clothing. I've come across several other things here and there, but I try to focus on what I know.

if any auction site is going to ever become as big as ebay they will treat there sellers like S***
it's just the way it is they use us to grow so we have to find a way to exploit them

dude that's not true . . . GOOGLE IS THE NUMBER ONE SITE ON THE WEB AND THEY DO NOT EXPLOIT PEOPLE!!!

You have to know who you are dealing with and the fact is that "EBAY" AKA‎ - eBay Inc. (NASDAQ)‎ is owned by 100% corporate investors and the dude that started it has nothing to do with the company anymore he sold most of it in 1998 and today control absolutely nothing about ebay at all

esty.com on the other hand was started by an artist couple from brookyln who still run and maintain the site very well if I might add - they even hold art events in new york for the members and publish the video online - they too like Google do not exploit the users of the site!

The thing is ebay isn't controlled by its founders, isn't controlled by passionate people, its controlled by GREED and just like they stock on the (NASDAQ)‎ ebay too will be failing down soon too



Its just takes enough of us to get together for the common good:bounce:

Google has auctions?!?

google has base a network where any seller with a website can submit their products for free including ebay (and including ebanza! :D) and google has google checkout

even when Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more holds your funds or freezes your account they don't wait 180 days to release your money like paypal does . . . that is a gross abuse of power!


all I am saying is that it doesn't have to be this way their are some people who manage website progressively with people in mind and not only profits

google isn't no saint take a look at youtube
they suspend accounts for no reason

and after 1998 ebay was still reasonable it was just until 2-3 years the they have started to go over the top.

the reason is in the past they needed us now we need them

Google Base is not auction. Also, they are just as bad as ebay about pulling your submission. I have my own copyright protected software on my own physical device trademarked in my company name. I am the exclusive grantor of any and all rights to the product. Me. Nobody else. I list it with them. They tell me days later that I am not an authorized seller of that product. I send them all the documents which state clearly that I am the author, creator, the owner of the copyright, the registrant of the trademark, the sole shareholder of the company, I am the only source. I manufacture them directly, I don't hire some factory to run them for me, I'm the big cheese, numero uno hombre... I provide the documents for which companies I have granted rights under contract to and when those licenses expire. Google misinterprets that all as indicating the licensees won't allow me authorization. Um, what?!?

In addition, the Base listings aren't consistent. They vanish and reappear at random and for unguessable durations. I don't mean the public viewability. I mean from within your own control panel.

Google Checkout - I set up my account there. All valid info. The real me. Approved, no prob. Put all the info in a folder and stashed it away. I have never ever made or attempted a single transaction with it. Got an email a little while back saying they suspended it forever due to what 'appeared' to be attempted fraudulent transactions. Thing is, I hadn't used the merchant id anywhere. Ever. No email notices ever came in prior to that which might indicate that somebody had obtained my info and attempted to receive money. (don't see how that would work anyhow).

Their automated email system cannot be reasoned with nor circumvented.

I know it's minor and a petty concern, but Google Base looks worse (in my opinion) than even Craig's List.

I think Google is best kept to information, and don't let them anywhere near a dime.

They have to protect other people's copy right - They suspend your youtube account only after the copy right owner reports that you are uploading their content aka music, movies, TV shows (and the copy right owner has the right to decide whether they would like to pull the videos down or just add the copyright name and link next to the song - seems pretty fair to me) and while you and me may not like this personally - you have to understand it is a business at the end of the day and if you don't run it like a business you will get sued like "pirate bay" did


Pirate bay was a movie sharing site that people could search for and download movies for free before they hit the theaters - They laughed at copy right owners and refused to remove their content for the site and got sued for like 3 billion I believe and they lost rights to their site!

Anyway nobody said Google was a saint - they are a business BUT they don't EXPLOIT their users like eBay and pay pal do - And that was my point - you said any site that gets BIG is automatically going to start exploiting people and that just isn't true - Honestly I think eBay is the biggest website to every exploit people and get away with it - Most websites are constantly trying to be innovative and do new think so they can stay on top - aka facebook twitter google even yahoo and I know you guys are gonna say well those aren't "auction site's" but they fact is all those site have way more traffic and way more members than ebay and they aren't exploiting them

Ok well I didn't say gbase was an auction site but it is FREE e-COMMERCE and they do pull submissions for many reasons but they don't restrict you from adding your content to the site - they don't hold your money if you used Google checkout you would know the money is sent directly into your bank account automatically within 2-3 days of payment - and my main point was that they DON'T EXPLOIT PEOPLE


pulling your submissions from Google base usually happens when you don't enter in enough information about the product aka "Condition" NEW OR USED . . . regardless pulling your submissions from Google base and holding your money for 180 days are not the same thing - One is genuine "Quality Control"
and they other is abuse of power and exploitation

Post #22 specifically said 'auctions'. Things went off track afterward.

Google Base and Google Checkout leave much to be desired. My own direct experience with Google Base has been outlined. I had legal and marketing review prior to me making my submission. Google dropped the ball. It works for some, and not for others. Just like ebay/pp, Google is not consistent and they are above any attempt at reproach.

I know my experience and I know the circumstances as well as the environment surrounding. I also know what I found from my subsequent research. I had every intention of 'getting down' on some of that Google Base action. I changed my mind very quickly. The concept is great, but in practice, it is very much a joke (not the funny kind, the rinky-dink kind).

My legal advisor, my marketing consultant, and my publisher agree with my assessments.

Anyone considering the option of Google Base, give it a shot. If it flies, good for you. I put my 5 cents (due to inflation) forth, to demonstrate the not so shiny side. It ain't all rum and peaches over there.

But then, as my friend up above pointed out, it ain't as bad in some ways as ebay and paypal.

Anyone here sell on buy.com? If so, how were sales there? Is buy.com owned by either ebay or amazon?

Thanks.