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Old 06-17-2009
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Default How to deal with trademark violation on powerseller & other ebay account

Hi everyone,
Ive been listing jeans on ebay for months without issues, now suddenly got the trademark violation issue.

Just wondering - if I just list the item without any images or just one image would that get around trademark? i mean that way the Vero guys wouldnt be able to tell if it is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not?

any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2009
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VeRO isn't worried about only ⊗⊗⊗⊗ goods. They also want to stop anyone who does not have a license (from the trademark holder) to sell the goods officially.

Say I'm the big bad wolf. I huff and I puff. If you have a real rolex for sale, but you didn't pay the company some ransom/protection money, I'll blow your house down.

If you have a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ rolex, I won't bother to huff and puff first.

If you are really determined to challenge my big bad wolfiness, you can challenge the takedown and cry about first-use. Eventually, it will work for you. Maybe once. Expect me to keep huffing and puffing and blowing, the entire time.
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Old 06-17-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg1648 View Post
Hi everyone,
Ive been listing jeans on ebay for months without issues, now suddenly got the trademark violation issue.
Just wondering - if I just list the item without any images or just one image would that get around trademark? i mean that way the Vero guys wouldnt be able to tell if it is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not?
any thoughts?

For starters your account is 'flagged'. ebay knows what you are doing so listings
will be checked. Leave that account to cool down & use other accounts if you have any. Also pay attention to vicvelcro's post:

Big Brother is watching you
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Old 06-17-2009
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lol stupid big brother.. k so im thinking of setting up a second user attached to this user as aback up - you can have multiple users sharing the same paypal address etc details so i might set that account up now.
  #5  
Old 06-17-2009
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Why link the account to an existing account? If you ever have probs with either account, you'll have probs with BOTH.

Keep them separate.
  #6  
Old 06-17-2009
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^^^vicvelcro is correct. In these times where it is a pain to lose an account, it is a sound practice to keep everything separate. Think of the game of dominoes....once one account goes down, so does the next one.
Backup and separate accounts are good
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Old 06-17-2009
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Plus, any accounts you already have or can create quickly, will be a benefit. It will not get any easier to make replacements. Why carelessly ruin what you already built, just by being in a hurry?
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Old 06-17-2009
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Default Question about 2nd user account linked to my powerseller account

Hi everyone,

Im a powerseller and been on for 1year thanks to stealth! *yayy* first trademark violation yesterday so am not listing ANYTHING vero or dodgy on this account for the 90 days or until my policy compliance goes back to good.

As per ebay's rules i want to create a sub account with all the same info - address, bank. paypal linked to this main account so i can build up this second account and put on some vero items (possibly?)

At the same time i will be making a brand newbie account just in case this all fails.

My question is should i create a sub-account or just not bother? i dont want to get my good powerseller acount screwed up.. secondly if i do create one can i do it on the same windows username or do i need to separate cookies etc?

any help would be appreciated

Kat
  #9  
Old 06-18-2009
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So wish that you had told us all of this in your first post.
I have merged the threads. Why? Because this thread blends with what you spoke about earlier.
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2009
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Separate account, not subaccount (unless you want whatever happens to one to happen to both). You need separate cookies and other data.

Design your listings to look different. Use different photos and photo host.Treat each account as though they are completely different people. Address, phone, bank, listing style, time of day you usually log on... Like the two users have never even met in real life.
  #11  
Old 06-19-2009
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HI everyone thanks for your help - I guess I have read almost every post on here and what I wanted to do by creating a sub account was give my main account a breather and list other items/build up feedback. I wont actually be selling vero items on this account but wanted to spread across my branded (an Australian designer) clothing items across more than one account.

What do you all suggest? i just my just warned good (300+ powerseller) account sit for 90 days and only list non branded items, and then create a newbie account, building up feedback for the first 30 days on a few items a week for sale on 7-10day auctions then start listing a scattering of vero items? funny thing is i actually have a receipt that i list with the jeans so i think like another poster commented they are just wiping out selling the brand at all...

k thanks for your help and any advice would be great
  #12  
Old 06-19-2009
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This is exactly the definition of VeRO. Verified Rights Owner. Thus, somebody already owns the company. A brand name. Means it is not a generic item. If it is generic, it is NON-VeRO. If it has a genuine label, it is VeRO.

Some VeRO products have enforcers. Some don't. There is HOT VeRO and safe VeRO.

Some VeRO enforcers are also counterfeit chasers. But counterfeit ain't VeRO. It's illegal. But technically, it's a different end of law.

If the brand grants you permission to be an approved seller, you are licensed. If they don't, then you violate VeRO by selling genuine things that you do not have official permission to sell.

VeRO is not another word for f a k e. VeRO is an acronym for the real deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg1648 View Post
I wont actually be selling vero items on this account but wanted to spread across my branded (an Australian designer) clothing items across more than one account.

Per your statement above, that you will be selling VeRO, you should make at least a few backup stealth accounts. Age them a bit, build a few feedback, and build them at a steady pace, starting small. (If you can)

Quote:
What do you all suggest? i just my just warned good (300+ powerseller) account sit for 90 days and only list non branded items, and then create a newbie account, building up feedback for the first 30 days on a few items a week for sale on 7-10day auctions then start listing a scattering of vero items? funny thing is i actually have a receipt that i list with the jeans so i think like another poster commented

It certainly appears this way. I've noticed quite a few people mentioning that their receipts are being ignored. This does not surprise me at all. The bullies have badges. You can expect the ego factor and zeal for producing tangible results to their bosses to be a motivating factor.

Quote:
they are just wiping out selling the brand at all...

k thanks for your help and any advice would be great
  #13  
Old 06-19-2009
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Well, I wish I had noticed this one much sooner. I could have used it as an example.

If you get hit with a trademark violation, you are being accused of selling un-genuine goods. They are alleging that you put somebody's brand name logo or tag on an artificial product.

They hit you with VeRO when they are alleging that the goods are genuine but that you do not have official permission, from the rights owner or his/her agent, to sell the goods. It's called licensing. Authorized reseller is another term.

You can't legally sell the phoney anywhere in the US.

You can't sell the real thing unless you paid retail price (on sale is ok) OR unless you have a contract with the company which grants you permission to sell the goods.

Not all brand names bother to protect their goods from resale. But they have the legal right to do so if they choose. That's what copyright and trademark are all about. There is only one Levi's, Rolex, Ford, Audigier, Versace, Caviaricci, Bolle, Carver, Samsung, Snickers, Kool-Aid, and so on. You can't have that name on a product not made by those people. If they don't want you selling their genuine product, guess what... You don't get to. It's theirs.

They call the shots. Just like you and your car. Suppose you didn't buy one, but built it custom yourself. Suppose you register a patent and copyright and all that. It's yours. You own it. The car, the name, all rights to manufacture and sell. Maybe you'd let me take it for a spin, but suppose you'd rather sell it yourself when the time comes (instead of me doing it for you whenever I want, keeping the money, and not even telling you). Hypothetically, it would be VeRO and grand theft auto. You see?

Now, suppose you don't want me making copies of your car in my garage and selling them all over town? This is not VeRO. This is trademark infringement, counterfeiting, and illegal everywhere in North America no matter what.

If you paid retail and you have your receipt, they will still bug the hell out of you and hope that you will be annoyed enough to give up. You can fight it and win. A couple years later.


Or you can cheat the game. (my favorite)

By the way, one is a criminal offense (could get you labeled under the patriot act too), the other is a civil matter involving litigation and lawsuit. Guess which is which?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg1648 View Post
Hi everyone,
Im a powerseller and been on for 1year thanks to stealth! *yayy* first trademark violation yesterday so am not listing ANYTHING vero or dodgy on this account for the 90 days or until my policy compliance goes back to good.

As per ebay's rules i want to create a sub account with all the same info - address, bank. paypal linked to this main account so i can build up this second account and put on some vero items (possibly?)

At the same time i will be making a brand newbie account just in case this all fails.

My question is should i create a sub-account or just not bother? i dont want to get my good powerseller acount screwed up.. secondly if i do create one can i do it on the same windows username or do i need to separate cookies etc?

any help would be appreciated

Kat

Last edited by Vicvelcro; 06-19-2009 at 03:27 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicvelcro View Post
Well, I wish I had noticed this one much sooner. I could have used it as an example.

If you get hit with a trademark violation, you are being accused of selling un-genuine goods. They are alleging that you put somebody's brand name logo or tag on an artificial product.

They hit you with VeRO when they are alleging that the goods are genuine but that you do not have official permission, from the rights owner or his/her agent, to sell the goods. It's called licensing. Authorized reseller is another term.

You can't legally sell the phoney anywhere in the US.

You can't sell the real thing unless you paid retail price (on sale is ok) OR unless you have a contract with the company which grants you permission to sell the goods.

Not all brand names bother to protect their goods from resale. But they have the legal right to do so if they choose. That's what copyright and trademark are all about. There is only one Levi's, Rolex, Ford, Audigier, Versace, Caviaricci, Bolle, Carver, Samsung, Snickers, Kool-Aid, and so on. You can't have that name on a product not made by those people. If they don't want you selling their genuine product, guess what... You don't get to. It's theirs.

They call the shots. Just like you and your car. Suppose you didn't buy one, but built it custom yourself. Suppose you register a patent and copyright and all that. It's yours. You own it. The car, the name, all rights to manufacture and sell. Maybe you'd let me take it for a spin, but suppose you'd rather sell it yourself when the time comes (instead of me doing it for you whenever I want, keeping the money, and not even telling you). Hypothetically, it would be VeRO and grand theft auto. You see?

Now, suppose you don't want me making copies of your car in my garage and selling them all over town? This is not VeRO. This is trademark infringement, counterfeiting, and illegal everywhere in North America no matter what.

If you paid retail and you have your receipt, they will still bug the hell out of you and hope that you will be annoyed enough to give up. You can fight it and win. A couple years later.


Or you can cheat the game. (my favorite)

By the way, one is a criminal offense (could get you labeled under the patriot act too), the other is a civil matter involving litigation and lawsuit. Guess which is which?
Wow, pretty informative for newbie like me who just thinking of start selling at ebay. Thanks vic!

So, even if we managed to find a dropshipper in US who can ship genuine/authentic products for brands like Nike watch, Rayban sunglass, etc, if we list the items for sale/auction in ebay.com, we will still get VERO issue? Correct me if I understand it incorrectly.

Thanks!
  #15  
Old 06-23-2009
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yes. the way to avoid vero is u need to send some information to ebay to proof that your good are genuine. Or u can ask nike to confirm to ebay that u are selling genuine item.
  #16  
Old 07-05-2009
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To sell most vero goods, you have to have a license from the parent company. Not just a receipt for goods. The receipt will keep you from losing a lawsuit, but it only sometimes keeps your listing from being pulled.

It isn't so much that you need to prove the goods are genuine. More like you need to prove the company gave you permission to sell their genuine goods.

That is why so many people keep getting the MCxxxx.... Nobody get it, FFS...
⊗⊗⊗⊗ or real ain't the big issue. It's whether you have permission at all from the big man.

Permission. Permission. Permission.
Get it?

Or you need to remain in compliance with the 2% Commandment.

Just to be sure...
Permission. Permission. Permission.

Last edited by Vicvelcro; 07-05-2009 at 10:28 PM.
  #17  
Old 05-12-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicvelcro View Post
To sell most vero goods, you have to have a license from the parent company. Not just a receipt for goods. The receipt will keep you from losing a lawsuit, but it only sometimes keeps your listing from being pulled.

It isn't so much that you need to prove the goods are genuine. More like you need to prove the company gave you permission to sell their genuine goods.

That is why so many people keep getting the MCxxxx.... Nobody get it, FFS...
⊗⊗⊗⊗ or real ain't the big issue. It's whether you have permission at all from the big man.

Permission. Permission. Permission.
Get it?

Or you need to remain in compliance with the 2% Commandment.

Just to be sure...
Permission. Permission. Permission.
If you buy in bulk from liquidators (genuine product), does this still apply? You are taking stock from the licensed retailer that they don't want anymore and then selling it. There are some big time sellers out there that sell 10s of thousands of name brand clothing, shoes, etc. and seem to not have a problem with it.

Its helpful to go to the ebay vero page and actually read some of the trademark holders info pages. They tend to give some pretty clear guidelines on selling without trigering a response. I just googled "ebay vero" and found the page quickly. It is the Vero: Participant about me section.
  #18  
Old 05-13-2010
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Liquidation lots aren't usually a small enough quantity that average small ebay seller could acquire. liquidation lots are most often in the thousands of units or tens of thousands of units. Also, the people who acquire such lots have the full documentation and bill of sale from the clearinghouse that brokered the liquidation.

You are correct about the VERO member profile pages. I frequently reference those profiles.
  #19  
Old 05-13-2010
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Vicvelcro above is 100% Correct in EVERYTHING that he Posted in this Thread However: It TOTALLY Depends on Each Individual Item and Brands "Supply Chain" Please refer to the following thread that I posted for an Example: http://www.aspkin.com/forums/buy-sel...tml#post131732

This Supply Chain is Known as a "Single Stream Chain" where EVERYONE in the Chain MUST BE APPROVED by the Brand/Item Creator/Owner/Manufacturer in this example APPLE. Many, Many Brands/Items are distributed in this fashion, Apple, Bose, Tiffany, ect,ect in essence: (A)MANUFACTURE---to---(B)VERY FEW Distriburors(Usually given Specific geographic areas to distribute in)-----to------(C)Authorized Resellers COMPLETELY controlled by (A)

There is also a Multi stream Supply Chain, (The Vast Majority of products) Where The manufactures Sells to Distriburors, Sometimes only a select few, sometimes to ANY Distributor who simply wants to carry their products, these distributors inturn sell these products to basically Anyone who has the money to pay for them.

A lot of Manufactures use BOTH Types of Supply Chains depending on the SPECIFIC ITEM, Samsung is a Good Example of this, Some of Samsungs "Top of The Line" Products are sold in Single Chains, MOST Samsung Product Lines are sold in Multi stream Chains. You Can CLEARLY See by going to Samsungs website and comparing all of lets say their 55 in LCD Panels. Check out their Prices and what Retail locations are selling them you will see a GIANT difference.

The problem is that there is MUCH more money to earn with single Stream Products, Especially when they are purchased at some Liquidation which is quite often, because these small hi-end sellers are Always going out of Business, Also counterfeiters also target these items for the Same reason---Money!!!---That is why a lot of Ebay sellers get caught up in these Suspensions.

Manufactures tend to Protect these Hi-End products because for a Retailler the ONLY Reason you go throught the whole Process of getting approved to sell these products is so they can make More Money On them. The problems Start When Retailers start complaining to Manufactures that people can "Go on Ebay" or Amazon and Save $$$ buying the SAME Item.
Sites like Ebay and Amazon Defeat the Whole Purpose of why Manufactures Control the Whole Supply Chain, Exclusivity, Better Custoner service and MONEY, Hence---VERO Suspensions!!!

It is RARE to get a VERO Violation for Multi Stream Distributed products, but if you do it is VERY Easy to get it removed, AND continue selling the product Unmolested.

Most Apple Products are for Example Generally sold in a "Single Stream Chain"---Most VIZIO Products ARE NOT, Anyone Ever have a problem with a Vizio Product?

So again, as I have said in Many of my posts Before: Research, Research, and More Research, that is the Key.

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  #20  
Old 05-14-2010
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You said it better than I could have. Nice one.
  #21  
Old 05-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicvelcro View Post
You can't sell the real thing unless you paid retail price (on sale is ok) OR unless you have a contract with the company which grants you permission to sell the goods.
You can sell anything you want no matter what price you got it at, that's called business. You don't need a contract or permission to sell anything, you only need a contract to be an authorized retailer if you want to get the goods from the manufacturer or distributor who only distribute to authorized retailers, and have your goods be warranted by the manufacturer. If the stream is locked down like this, good luck trying to buy the stuff wholesale from somebody who IS authorized, just so you can go behind their back and undercut their pricing!? NOT HAPPENING..

permission to sell something? I don't think so, there's no company out there that has the power to make or enforce law

Quote:
If they don't want you selling their genuine product, guess what... You don't get to. It's theirs.
No, it's not theirs..it's yours. You can sell your stuff

Quote:
They call the shots. Just like you and your car. Suppose you didn't buy one, but built it custom yourself. Suppose you register a patent and copyright and all that. It's yours. You own it. The car, the name, all rights to manufacture and sell. Maybe you'd let me take it for a spin, but suppose you'd rather sell it yourself when the time comes (instead of me doing it for you whenever I want, keeping the money, and not even telling you). Hypothetically, it would be VeRO and grand theft auto. You see?
There's a small problem with your comparison. You are making it seem like people are taking/borrowing goods from a manufacturer, stealing, and selling them. That's illegal. If you made the car and have the patent whatever BS you want to have, sell it to me, I can do what the **** I want with it, including selling it..who has title to it now? The owner.

You are confusing TITLE and LICENSING. You CANNOT re-sell licenced goods, if the license agreement says that you can't. You agreed to the licensing when you originally "bought" the item..which you didn't. You just bought the right to use it.

Just because you bought a T-shirt that had Micky Mouse on it, trademark of Disney and licensed to the manufacturer of the shirt, doesn't mean you can't resell it

Either way, it sounds like eBay makes their own rules, so what you can and cannot do really doesn't matter, it's their sandbox, but there's nothing illegal unless it's a copy
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2010
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I'll make this short and simple. I have a software product that I wrote, I copyrighted, I published, and it is distributed by one outfit only. The contract is (and the license agreement for the end user) states that nobody can sell that item again unless they contact me to transfer their license to the next owner. That is a condition of sale. Too bad, so sad.

Now, Rolex and Lambourghini have a similar deal. They only allow certain dealerships to broker their product. Those dealers must agree to not make bulk sales to one entity (most especially another dealer who maybe isn't directly approved). The end user of the physical goods can then sell it privately if they choose later. But that end user by most conditions is not permitted to make an enterprise from the distribution of the product without becoming licensed by the trademark or patent holder.

In the case of my software, HEH HEH HEH, it's intellectual property. You don't buy the software, you rent permission to borrow it. It's mine when you are finished with it. You don't sell it or give it away without my OK on it. You can try, but it automatically locks itself down if it can't phone home from time to time. When it does phone home, if it ain't where it's supposed to be, it gets locked down until a lot of explaining is perpetrated.

So, physical goods still have a distribution restriction but harder to control. Intellectual property like music, movies, and software... Piece of cake for the rights owner to control.
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