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  #1  
Old 04-17-2008
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Default Advice Pls. Item sent with tracking but Paypal give refund!

My mother sold two items to a single buyer. Each were paid for separately through Paypal. Both items were posted within the same A4 envelope by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery (as recommended by Paypal UK) and are still today, trackable on the Royal Mail website (showing received and showing a signature). The buyer made a claim through paypal stating that the items were not received. My mother entered the tracking number in the dispute console immediately, and for one of the items they decided in her favour and took no action, so no refund was granted, but for the other item they decided in favour of the buyer. Basically this appears to be an automated decision, as it stated she had ended it amicably and then Paypal refunded the buyer. There was no reference to having reviewed the dispute where they would have seen proof of postage etc, exactly like the other dispute. So, two items in the same envelope, and two identical claims, yet Paypal are basically stating that one was received and one was not!! This was appealed, closed then appealed again, and is still going on since 12th January 08. They requested a fax of the Recorded Delivery Slip, duly sent, then told this was not sufficient to track the item!! It is still shown today on the Royal Mail website. There have been many emails back and forth but none of the emails actually address the issue. Which was basically a mistake at their end with their automated dispute system. Her account has been in debt since the refund, and their last reply was 30th March claiming they were looking at the tracking info.....Anyone else have any views or advise on what she should do. It is going on for so long and she is just going round in circles.
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Old 04-17-2008
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Ok, I took some advise from somewhere on the forum saying it's better to phone than keep emailing. So my mother just did that. She asked for Resolutions Manager, and was put through fairly quickly to the right department. She spoke to a very pleasant gentleman, who looked through her file thoroughly and could see exactly what the problem was and has said he would pass it to the claims department who make the final decisions. He could see she was in the right and hoped it would end in her favour, but could not give any guarantees. He said she would hear from Paypal with their decision within 72 hours. I will post back as soon as she has heard back from them.........

Last edited by ddayz; 04-17-2008 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 04-17-2008
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this is the kinda crap you have to deal with when you have to accept paypal.
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Old 04-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddayz View Post
Ok, I took some advise from somewhere on the forum saying it's better to phone than keep emailing. So my mother just did that. She asked for Resolutions Manager, and was put through fairly quickly to the right department. She spoke to a very pleasant gentleman, who looked through her file thoroughly and could see exactly what the problem was and has said he would pass it to the claims department who make the final decisions. He could see she was in the right and hoped it would end in her favour, but could not give any guarantees. He said she would hear from Paypal with their decision within 72 hours. I will post back as soon as she has heard back from them.........
Paypal replied by email today 21 April, and said

"We have received your valid tracking information on the above-mentioned
case and sent a courtesy email to the buyer on your behalf. We have
requested the buyer to submit a full refund in light of our findings.

Please be advised that you will need to contact the buyer for further
information regarding your payment."

So they have finally admitted in a round about way that a refund to the buyer should not have happened and the tracking information was valid, but have now left it to my mother to contact the buyer to ask for her money back!! Like, that is going to be possible!!??? Even though it was Paypal who took it from her account without her consent in the first place. The other thing is, the buyer did not get a full refund as there was not enough money in her account, so Paypal have simply left the account with a debt of 100. What now?
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Old 04-21-2008
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ddayz, I am so sorry that this is how it ended up: this is the typical nasty paypal cop out.
paypal act incorrectly and this is the result. What they are doing is trying to make this go
away. Because they work to their own rules your rights(Mum's) do not matter. I would not
know how much further you would chase this. paypal are hard to fight.
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Old 04-21-2008
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Default And fighting Paypal leads to EBAY suspension...

one complaint to them was all it took for me. All my accounts went down on that Paypal account the next day.

I don't think this is very real though. Paypal sends out three notifications asking for information. How did you fail to give them a tracking number three times consecutive?

I don't understand from your explanation how Paypal was in the wrong. After the fact it sucks, but how did it get to this point? You may have deserved it.
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Old 04-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddayz View Post
"We have received your valid tracking information on the above-mentioned
case and sent a courtesy email to the buyer on your behalf. We have
requested the buyer to submit a full refund in light of our findings."
ROFL. Kiss your money goodbye. :D
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Old 04-21-2008
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That would the the FSA (financial services authority).
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Old 04-21-2008
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Thumbs down FSA....Joke when it comes to paypal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisinc View Post
That would the the FSA (financial services authority).
FSA.......Fat load a good they are.

Had a problem with a purchase from a website, paypal didn't want to know as i had received something in the post. The FSA raised a case and then after several weeks gave me some crap about Paypal and themselves advised that I return the goods to the seller.

My complaint was that I had returned the goods and the seller didn't issue a refund. I had Tracking number the lot and still no joy so it was a charge back in the end via my credit card. And yes paypal closed that account straight after their investigation as I breached the user agreement.

Protection Paypal don't know the meaning of it.
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Old 04-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebayaintstupid View Post
one complaint to them was all it took for me. All my accounts went down on that Paypal account the next day.

I don't think this is very real though. Paypal sends out three notifications asking for information. How did you fail to give them a tracking number three times consecutive?

I don't understand from your explanation how Paypal was in the wrong. After the fact it sucks, but how did it get to this point? You may have deserved it.
Paypal did'nt send out three notifications for information, as the tracking information had already been entered on the system at the same time my mother escalated it to a claim. The buyer started the dispute, but she decided to escalate it immediately, as it looked like the buyer was pulling a fast one and thought that Paypal would see that straight away, as she had all the proof that was needed. They sent out one request asking for proof of postage, giving 3 days to repond, but as she had already entered the tracking number several weeks earlier she thought it was just a mistake, especially as at the exact same time as this email, another email came conluding that the other item (inside the same envelope) had closed in her favour. Clearly indicating that they had seen the tracking information.
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Old 04-21-2008
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I do not doubt that your Mum did everything that you have said. The bottom line is that
paypal will only look after paypal. Never ever trust paypal.
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Old 04-22-2008
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Jimbo, for some reason it doesn't suprise me that the FSA don't give a dam.

If they did, I'm sure they would have already done investigations into paypal.
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Old 04-22-2008
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From my understanding this problem is that of a user's Mum. Doubt there is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ info there.
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Old 04-23-2008
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I think the problem is you had two separate payments and decided to combine it to save the buyer on shipping after the fact. This is why sellers ask buyers to wait so you can combine shipping and pay for everything at the same time because then all of the items become linked in your paypal account. So basically in your paypal account it looks like the buyer got 2 separate things and you only shipped one item because you only have one tracking number. Yes you can tell paypal you added both packages together but how would they really know, thats why one of the disputes went in her favor. Thats just my 5 cents. I dont think paypal was being a pain here, i think they were just following protocol and calling it based on the facts.

Last edited by divine422; 04-23-2008 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 04-24-2008
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Wink But Modee...

can I pick it up and save the shipping?
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Old 04-25-2008
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Regarding the latest on my mothers situation, where Paypal have finally admitted an error in their dispute system and that the tracking info is valid, and she is entitled to her money back from the buyer who paypal should never have refunded. But is told it is down to her to ask the buyer for her money back!! Instead of them doing a reversal of the funds. Ridiculous of course. So she called Paypal, and again they were pleasant over the phone, saying that it would be looked at and they could see that this was not right etc etc. Again she is waiting to hear from them. Yet the very next day Paypal call on the home number asking her to clear her debt!! Obviously a different department who do not have a clue what is going on! (The reason I am so involved in this, is because they have frozen my account due to my mothers issues). Will be back with another installment.....
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Old 04-25-2008
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As paypal say in their terms and conditions obtaining a refund from the buyer is up to you. I know its absurd especially when they are at fault. I would be waiting for that oh no sorry we can't (or mean won't) do anything about our error
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Old 04-29-2008
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Mods on lunch break? How is this dude not banned yet.
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Old 04-30-2008
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Since making that second phone call to paypal to explain that it was paypal who need to credit back the refund and not the buyer,(particularly as the buyer only received 20% of the refund as my mothers account was nearly empty), Paypal have refunded the full amount and my mothers account is now in credit!!!!! RESULT at last. The account is still frozen though but I think thats just a technical thing and down to a different department. So another call to make.....
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