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Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

No matter what i do i lose paypal cases so i have little expectation to win this one, but i can't see how exactly they will find in favor of the other party. I fully expect them to, as i have grown accustomed to this.

I paid a graphic designer to create some artwork for me
I send them $250 and marked payment as for "goods" since i know there is no protection in paypal for payment of services

It turns out he had no intention of providing any work so i filed a case and marked the case as payment for goods
I said i did not receive a coat that i paid for

I can see in the case log that the seller has called paypal and now they are making a decision

The fact that they spoke to them on the phone worries me since i know ebay do some wild things to customers when they are on the phone just to make them happy

But he has not added a tracking number
So how can i lose?

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

So you got some art work made and then said you bought a coat in the PayPal case?

Why did you not just tell them the real service you didn't get delivered?

There isn't really much need to make this up in the case. Stick to the truth and if you do not get things delivered as a buyer its very rare for PayPal to side with the seller unless you have a really long history of claiming non receipt on the PayPal account in question in which case PayPal do someone look at that and award it to the seller.

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

he could just reply to paypal and say he did the art work and attach some random file

I don't know how protection on digital items works
But i know tangible items is black and white
He has to provide a tracking number
If he doesn't he loses right?

He has no communication he can show from my paypal name or email saying anything contrary to me buying a coat

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

So long as you don't have a lot of history of this type of thing on PayPal then most the time without the seller uploading tracking you would win.

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

called paypal and they said buyer is claiming payment was made for intangible goods (which apparently are protected) but has to prove this, and that he delivered this to me

They also said paypal don't accept emails as evidence as they are too easily doctored

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

I thought you were the buyer? Do you mean that the seller claimed that? Because if that is what you mean then that is true

This is the issue with not being totally honest from the outset

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

Bending the truth with PayPal never works.

What worries me is the mention of other claims.

Is there a basis for them?

Should you be using PayPal for intangible goods, then you should work out a better method.

I am sorry you have this worry though.
:tears:

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

Surprised to hear this. I used to deal with intangible services a lot over the last decade, and their tone of voice seems to have changed (or that adviser is fibbing).

Back then, if a buyer so much as opened a claimed filing the reason to be intangible goods, within 24 hours the case gets closed in seller favour as PP offer no buyer protection on digital delivery.

Would be interesting to hear the outcome on this now.

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

yeah exactly that's why i said it was for tangible goods
I don't have any faith in paypal protecting me for the delivery of an intangible good

I am the buyer BTW mixed it up back there as so used to being a seller

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

paypal are asking me for "supporting documents" for this claim

I am the buyer
I sent him the money and he has no tracking number

Every claim ever against me as a seller i lose. Even with signature confirmation
I don't understand how I am going to lose this. The one claim i've done as a buyer

The impetus is on him to prove he has delivered something to me

As "Play" mentioned - "Back then, if a buyer so much as opened a claimed filing the reason to be intangible goods, within 24 hours the case gets closed in seller favor as PP offer no buyer protection on digital delivery." - this is why it was marked as goods

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

I imagine he has a lot of trading history as a seller for digital items and none as a physical item seller.

It does also sound like you have made a few claims in the past.

This is exactly why making things up can lead to issues and its best to stick to the truth.

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

i've never made claim in the past

yeah truth doesn't work if paypal don't offer protection though

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

you keep saying you lost cases in the past as a seller, but you are the buyer now so the opposite should apply then......it is true paypal is biased towards buyers...

sellers do win intangible cases sometimes, I have no idea what their criteria is, it might be down to the agent or if the buyer makes alot of similar claims...I sold an intangible once for several hundred, I had never sold an intangible before on that account, it was a one-off, they claimed INR, and I did not even reply to the dispute, thinking they would not find in my favour (I would have ditched the account) - but they did find in my favour! so the account lived on.... It was on ebay and it was clear it was an intangible, so there was nothing to hide....

coat? why...in theory any messages the seller shows them will not mention a coat (not that they really bother to read that stuff anyway, they do not look in to it that thoroughly)

Artwork is tangible, and can be delivered, so you should have said artwork and INR....the seller can always quickly send you a letter with tracking to mess that up, and then you would need to switch to SNAD.....

it is not tangibles/non-tangibles per se, it is lack of delivery proof that concerns paypal..

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

case decided in my favor today
they wanted a URL for where i made the purchase
I just made up an instagram 404 URL and told them the page was removed by the seller

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

Dumb question, where did you find this so called "graphic designer"?

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

reddit

I usually use upwork where the whole process is controled
But it was a niche job

Re: Tell me how i will lose this Paypal Case
 

Gotcha.....sometimes it is best to hire someone from a reputable place but it is what it is I suppose.