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Had to do a non receipt dispute, then sends me empty envenlope with tracking...what?
 

Ok (i am running on a stealth account).....I purchased an auction, never received it, after almost 30 days and no communication from the seller, I opened an item not received dispute...seller prints out label via paypal with tracking and I get an empty envelope....what can I do???? Can I open a not received as described dispute now??? Isnt the claim automatically closed once the tracking shows "delivered"? This is a powerseller with high ratings "top rated" and this was a classified ad type auction. She has regular auctions as well as classified ad auctions. Please help, thanks!

ok, the postage label may state weight, and if it is an item that should have weighed more - thats in your favour

get in touch with seller- is it a mistake maybe?

generally though, tracking is all paypal use to determine..so if you are going to try and dispute, act quick

Thanks! If it was an honest mistake on the sellers part I wouldnt know it because they have not emailed me back or anything. For some reason when I purchase items on ebay that are NOT printed out on paypal shipping labels, sellers have interchanged my po box numbers. Twice already I had packages marked as "delivered" by the post office and the post office would put them in the right box according to what was on the package. Thank God whomever actually owns that po box gave the packages back to the post office who than took the time to match my name with my po box number. But anyhow, I looked up in paypal "help" and it stated that I can change the status of 'reason for claim' and it tells me how to do it, but that option button doesnt appear on my 'view details' of the dispute. Is it safe to email paypal directly about this????????? since I am running on a stealth account???????????? Thanks! :)

Did you do a request for details of the seller: did you try to make contact by phone? This can be troublesome when you run stealth accounts. You need to ask yourself is there any item worth buying if the seller fails to deliver the goods? I'm referring to items over say $50.00. Try for the details & see if you can get a phone no#. You never know what might happen yet. What was the FB like on the account?

Thanks! I did call and leave a message, and I got a text back stating that the item was shipped. She didnt try calling me back, instead just texted me?!?!?!?! She does have a few "never received item" comments, but she is a powerseller and most of her feedback is good and we know ebay feedback so not that I take it with a grain of salt, but the fact that you can leave negative feedback stating ANYTHING under the sun I dont have a problem buying from sellers who have a few neg comments especially when they are powersellers. I cant remeber a time when I purchased from anyone with less than a 99% rating. I have purchased THOUSANDS of items off of ebay over the years and all though I have had a few problem sellers, I am still addicted to Ebay...how horrible I know! But it ticks me off everytime something similar to this does happen! I am just going to wait and see if I can see the option button to change the reason for dispute and if not than I guess I lose out on that money. It was close to $50 so I am not happy about it. But karma is a ..... so she will get hers.

Thanks to all who took the time to help me! :)

in empty envelope scenario with tracking - best dispute is always SND - why? that way pp will allow you to send them back what they sent you for a refund, send it back with tracking (empty envelope!) Whether it be a mistake or deliberate...you dont have to get in to drama of your word against theirs..

so you are changing from empty envelope to snd - hmmm, dont know if theyll buy that...

update us though!

In my opinion that seller is just trying to run a scam on you. Because on Paypal you are only allowed to open 1 dispute per transaction and can not change the type of dispute once it is filed. So they sell something and then wait around for a month for you to get fed up and file a non receipt claim and then just send you a empty envelope/package with a tracking number which is uploaded to Paypal. Once Paypal sees the package is delivered they will close the claim and consider the matter settled. You can't go and reopen a new claim. That is why you should file a claim thru Ebay with the buyer protection program instead of Paypal and then when the item arrives and if it isn't correct then you still have the option of filing a claim with Paypal. Sorry to hear your situation and hope it works out for you

Have you tried messaging them on ebay? What did they text you?

this is just one of them ways to scam a buyer off ebay. it's a simple 3 part step. 1. buyer pays for item.2.seller stalls until buyer opens item not received.3 seller ships a empty package, paypal close dispute. so yea it's best to open item not as describe.

Just that "the item was shipped".

I didnt get the empty envelope until after I opened the item not received dispute since at that time I didnt recieve anything or any communication. I hadnt a clue that this powerseller would do something like that, I was in shock. I hadnt contacted paypal in regards to the envelope being empty at all, so they know nothing about it. I figured she did it on purpose and I was/am waiting for the option to "change reason for dispute" button to come up on the paypal dispute page. Give her a taste of her own medicine and maybe I will put a smiley face sticker in it when I return her envelope,lol! According to Paypal "help" pages you are able to change a not received dispute to not received as described....again according to their "help" pages. The dispute is still open so paypal hasnt closed it yet, but the option to change the reason for dispute hasnt shown up yet but I guess we will see.

Were the funds paid from a credit card, or the paypal balance?

paypal balance.

I tried to look in the posts... but have you tried to call paypal?

Also, I would try to blow her phone up. Call it ten times a day. Fill up her voice mail. Do you know if it's a sprint or verizon number?

ok, in which case, calling paypal, might allow you to change type of sipute, but again - the tracking is all seller needs - have you considered the weight issue, was it a light object?

Paypal decided in her favor because of tracking, oh well....did you know there is a "paypal community" ON paypal.com that trashes paypal?!??!?!?!?! That made for great reading. Come to find out there is no REAL option to change reason of dispute, paypal claims there is a button, but according to the forum on there it never showed up for ANY of the others and they all state calling paypal will not help. And yes, the envelope I received stated on they label 1 oz! I would like to say I cant believe this, but it is paypal we are talking about here.

I dont know...I just dont feel right doing that. I am a firm believer in karma, so I am sure she will do this to the "right" person and get what she deserves.

Did paypal get any english speaking reps yet??? When I had my non-stealth account I had to call a few times and I could NEVER understand them nor did I EVER receive any real help from them EVER! I am for sure paypal flags accounts that somehow get brought to their attention so emailing/calling them is not something I feel would result in any sort of help for me in this situation. Especially since I have auctions up and running. It is what it is.

I would fight this all the way. One thing I do not know is that when you purchased the item did you specify your real address?

I know what can happen as I did this once. I purchased an item and my ebay account was stealth IE not my address, I paid by Paypal then I contacted the seller to say "The item is a gift for my friend, please can they send to their address and I will pay the extra for tracking"

I also offer my phone number so they can call me if necessary.

What can happen with stealth ebay account when making a purchase is that a keen switched on seller will send the item out as soon as paid for with the address that is on file with ebay so you wont get the item.

So anytime I buy something with a stealth ebay, I email them and confirm they will send to another address.

Some buyers put the small note in Paypal asking for "posting to another address", now I dont know about you but I hardly ever see these notes before I post an item as they are hidden away. Then the buyer complains when it doesnt go to the address specified.

Bottom line is you need to ensure that the seller has the address where you want to receive the item. Even go as far as to get contact information through ebay and talk to them as some people dont check their email much or dismiss messages, or they simply dont register.

SOrry to hear about this trickster. We know Karma will get her derriere. For you, here are some lessons:
Make contact with the seller before any bidding, In fact I stick to BINs
as that can be quicker.
If the seller has more than x2 negatives....don't be the third. There's a track record there. Look closely at the item. For the boys, the only item should be Paris Hilton's ..,,,,, & for the gals, maybe Antonio Banders'......only if it's under $20 consider buying. Get the idea?
anything goes sour, go to ebay first for resolution. They tend to be better. paypal will not be as good. If you buy & paypal watch how to fund this;)
Hope the seller gets a big bite soon:peace:

Thanks GreenBean!

Hi! :) I do use a real PO Box address that is both registered and confirmed. It is my PO Box so I have access to it. It is both the address that is registered with ebay as well as paypal so the seller definitely has access to my address and no other address. This is my first only ever stealth account and i have had it for almost a year......so come to think of it....I have been on this forum for a year????..........seems like only yesterday! LOL! I did get her phone number prior to opening the dispute with paypal and I had tried emailing her more than enough times prior to even trying to call her. The part that bothers me is that it was for my kids, not for me, so that ticked me off when I got the empty envelope. But my point is that I purchased this stealth account from here and if I try and persue this than I run the risk of bringing attention to myself and it will probably cost me almost the $50 I lost already to get another stealth account.....so I am just going to take it as a lesson learned since in my situation it is just not worth the hassle. I have 100% feedback with 4.9-5.0 detailed ratings and never left anyone a negative comment and I dont feel like having to start over.

Update, ok.......the option to change the reason for claim has finally showed up on paypal (and I didnt do anything, I did not contact paypal in anyway). I changed the reason to significantly not as described and it escalated automatically to a claim, not a dispute. What should I do now. Do I wait for paypal to tell me to ship this lovely lady back her envenlope, or should I ship it with tracking right away? Thanks!

Ship with tracking and provide the tracking number to PP.

Also email PP with the action you have taken and the tracking number again.

Make sure you check the status of the tracking and once confirmed email PP to tell them the status.

You should get your money back.

Thanks so much! How do I do that. I never had to return anything as of yet. I want to print the label off paypal. How do I create the label for this situation? Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!

Printing the label off with Paypal is not important. Just post the item will a tracking service at your post office counter and then provide the details to Paypal.

Also make sure your phone number is up to date as they may call you for more clarification.

if this seller is clever, they may get an independant witness eg. deliverer to stay whilst envelope is opened and give them a note to testify to this....

phew, if you are right then the help of one of the many CSI teams might be needed to resolve this.

what will a witness do? How is that going to help her in anyway??????

Years ago....when ebay used to allow money orders....I actually prefered to send money order payment rather than having to open a paypal account (I read www.paypalsucks.com)...well the one time the seller tried to pull a "prove it" when I sent a traceable money order and I actually got the cops involved..(later to find out she had 20+ accounts doing this to....the only people that received their stuff was paypal payers).....anyhow, when the cops got involved and contacted her local police station (Philadelphia) all of a sudden I got my stuff 4 days later with tracking/insurance etc. I had a po box at that time and I went to the front and asked if one of the employees could watch me open it since the police were involved and they laughed and said they couldnt get involved in anything like that and sent me on my way. Now, I did have what I purchased so she didnt try anything further...it was almost $200 worth...so I was nervous.....so anyhow if they didnt do it for me why would they do it for her????? Any actually stories of a witness????

Quick question: I printed out the label with delivery confirmation, mailed out her envelope. Tracking shows it is in transit. When should I post the conf. # on the paypal page? Should I wait until it shows received?????? So that she cant track it and plan an attack? Or do I have to post the tracking number before it arrives? It will be received at her end prior to my deadline to post a tracking number....thanks!

Post the tracking number now. At Paypal a real person WILL check the info, so if you post the tracking number now then at some stage someone will check it and then the dispute should be decided in your favour.

The only thing that might happen is that the person rejects the item and it comes back to you. If this were the case I would ring Paypal and let them know.

Otherwise you should get your money back!

Ok Everybody............posted the tracking info the other day.....it was delivered today....and I got my full refund from paypal today! I didnt receive any email from the seller about the empty envelope and I dont know what is going on with that...maybe she realized she got what she deserved....dont know...but I know that the funds ARE back in my paypal account so I am a little happy camper now.....hopefully that will be the end of that. Thanks to all for your help! Could not have done it without you guys! Thanks again! :)

Glad it all worked out for you. You did it all right so you got your money back. A lot of the scammers tricks are not very clever and are easily counter-acted.

The good thing is aswell that you will know what to do if there is a next time and you have experienced the process first hand and that is always the best way to learn.

Also others that experience the same problem as you will maybe find this thread and they will benefit aswell.

Well done, Im glad it worked out for you!

in empty envelope or brick return scenario, the postal carrier who takes your signature, can be envoked to witness you opening it and sign something to say what they saw, if they refuse then you refuse to sign, and have it returned to depot untouched, where you can see manager and ask same thing...

Just read through this thread since oompaloompa bumped it up.
Wow.
Its because crap like this with scam sellers that we are fooling around trying to stay alive.

Sure. I've been slow to ship because I meet some girls on the beach, yes.
I've been rude to buyers because they ordered on Monday and they asked why it wasn't there on Wednesday, yup
I've even flavored up the ad to make a turd look pretty... But an empty envelope with tracking? From a power seller? No wonder its so bloody hard these days. Me, $500 or $5, someone sends me an empty envelope with tracking and I'm taking them down. Full on war.

I've been burned by sellers with bad service or a crap item. But this is just low budget

LOL! I agree with you! I have been on ebay for YEARS so I am used to the norm. If I order something from my same country and even 2 weeks go by, I dont freak out yet. If I need something immedietly, I dont go to ebay to get it because I dont expect to have it within a few days. That makes for the times that I do get my items in a few days a nice experience! But anyhow.....if someone ever is in the same situation that happened to me (and yes I am sure something similar will or has happened to alot of us). The steps in short are as follows: try and contact the seller via ebay email a few times, then request their phone number through the ebay request member info option and give them a call, if none of this proves success, then do a not received dispute because it could be an honest mistake, family issue, loss of internet etc. and I would give anybody the benefit of the doubt with good feedback. If you are faced with the "empty envenlope" trick, wait about a week and the option to change the dispute will show up. Then you can return their lovely gift to you and paypal will give you your money back. Although it is a process, it is one with a good ending, so it is worth it! Thanks again to EVERYONE for their help. The only way I was able to have success with this is because of the people who helped! Thanks! :)

I do miss customers like that. I so do :)

Not a chance would I give a week. One day at most. Not talking about damage or a normal mistake. An empty envelope, with tracking, and the tracking is big deal, is all scam. I am all forgiving. We have all screwed up. But an empty envelope? No way. Ok, 48 hours. I have only had to do a couple chargebacks in 8 years. I go way out of my way to work it out. I know the damage it does so its not a light issue. I never use my balance. Always CC. Always. Then paypal can kiss my ass on "allowing" me to change back. Visa will, no matter what paypal says. Hell 4 5 months later with a phone call... Period, done.

If I read correctly, that is the only way it worked for you. Sounds like seller had no plan to do anything and just lost. So congrats!

I have often wondered if competitors do this. Its a cut throat world we live in. We know what gets us burned. Easy to burn others. Kinda scary really.
Scary

yes, actually the conversation got side tracked a bit, the OP got an emply envelope...

then we started talking about if you return the emply envelope and the seller is clever and gets a witness.....

or maybe if you think you will get an empty envelope/brick, eg a return from a scammer buyer..

scammers are tricky, its good to know how to handle them if you can with these methods, youve listed alot of good ones and play them at there own game, dont say anything by email, just remember tracking is the key............

I wouldnt personally start making accounts in their name etc, thats them victimizing you more, by wasting your time.........

When I said "wait about a week....." I was referring to the fact that it takes about a week for the "change reason for dispute" option to show up. See when you open an NOT RECEIVED dispute, and the seller sends ANYTHING with confirmation, once the DC shows delivered paypal gives them their money and closes the dispute THE SAME DAY. Pretty much END OF STORY....however in about a week, there will be an option that shows up saying "change reason for dispute" in which case you can now change it to "not as described" and return their oh-so-lovely-try gift back to them and now what happened to you will happen to them.....DC shows delivered and you get YOUR funds back SAME DAY. I only suggested waiting the week for the option to change because I am so careful as to actually contacting ebay/paypal for anything. I dont want any physical person actually checking out my stealth account for my own sanity reasons,lol!