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PayPal leaves phone ON hook (i catch them discussing me)
 

Ok, long story short. Payment for 500$, got my account limited, i ring paypal discuss in detail what the payment was for, the persron over the phone seemed nice everyone was cool. She says it will be reviewed and i will get an answer within the next 72 hours. When we say our goodbyes, she forgets to hang up the phone. I then hear her speaking to an irish lad (might of been her manager) discussing what i said over the phone.

As she was discussing it, he was counting up numbers which he said are "Risk Factors". The guy then says "His business model sucks, give me his id number and emailand i'll just ban him".

JUST LIKE THAT!

Morale of the story, It takes paypal 1 minute to decide that they dont want you. The transaction was actually legitimate for server space. I rang back and gave the guy a earful, telling him i heard exactly what the guy said, and to prove it, i even quoted his name.

See what happens from here, as i still havent actually been officially banned yet.

Dunno if it helps, but the woman was also counting 'Risk Points' as if you hit a certain load, your account is ****ed.

Hope you have a nice follow-up on this - sucks to hear but yeah, I figure pp can be like this.

Maybe it's time for something like this

http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CGYQ8wIwAg

interesting story...do want to know more

@OP, Please keep us in the loop, this is an extremely important thing you just found. Hope your situation goes from bad to good.

Good Luck.

If you had recorded him on the phone, oh boy...o :laugh:

Exactly! If you could of got this recorded you would probably be in great shape "If my account is ever banned or limited I will go to the media with this" Game, set, match!!"

Na but really this isn't surprising at all to me. they don't care about us seller. sad thing is sellers are the only reason ebay is still alive, Amazon is kicking them

I will do. The phone operator who i rang for the 3rd time was really shocked, and stuttering his words.

Although i admit to selling vero items on other accounts, this account was relatively new, and the transaction was 100% legit.

It took them 10 seconds to decide my 'business' model wasn't right.

If you have a "real" business stay away from Paypal and use a merchants account.

Ditto.

Could be interesting.

My account has been unlimited!. Strange that the guy was sure i was banned, then when i rang up and put it on them that i knew what they had discussed, and that they took know time into the matter they had overturned there decision


:clap:

Interesting. Wonder if catching them in the act played a big role. Or if account was just on the fence. I always assumed whatever point system they use to label you as a risk is pretty much a done deal if it crosses whatever barrier they have, right or wrong... I dont see them spending any time if they are in the mindset that there is a risk. Interesting

amazing story... not surprising to know the way they ban people in a matter of minutes, but still must be bizarre and shocking to hear it actually happen to you off record there and then in seconds.... ^^ i agree would be so interesting to know just to what extent the catching them out changed your fortunes... i have a funny feeling if you had left it after the inital phone call in the OP, they would have done what they said almost immediately and just banned the whole acct.

Thanks for sharing, this IS important.

However, it is not complete (I am not complaining, don't take it the wrong way).

In order for all of us to benefit, we would need to know what the risk factors are, how many points are assigned to each risk factor, and what the total number of points needed for a limitation or ban are.

Most business decisioning systems operate the same way. And there can be hundreds of factors involved, depending on how complicated they want to make it.

Pretty much why I posted the book above, that way you can at least get a basic understanding of risk factors and business modeling then use that to run some tests on paypal.

Beyond the ability of some to comprehend.:violin:
they think 'their' business has no risks.

Very sensible to have a business plan paying attention to 'risk' factors.

Sorry, I agree with nothing of the above regarding risk factors etc.

Roughly about 2 years ago, my original PP that I had from 2006 before I knew about this site I was selling lots of vero items (wrongly I admit). I sold £8500 worth of clothing in 7 days!!
Now yes you are right in thinking that I got limited. However, I must of built up LOADS of risk points to the point where my account should NEVER be unlimited.

Guess what!?

Wrote a letter explaining I was new etc and didnt know that I couldnt process that many transactions on a personal account etcetc was told it would never be reinstated due to 'RISK'.

I had a call about 12 weeks later saying HI, Mr.... we have looked into your account and we feel that we can reinstate your account.

Selling that much VERO in such a short amount of time must of taken me over the barrier for risk points beyond repair... so theres my story!

How do you not agree with it if you don't know what they are :P.

My personal opinion is that i think the factors are based around common sense. Yours probably wasn't limited because like you said you had been around since 2006. If i sold 8500 on a brand new acc, no doubt it would be suspended indefinitely

Nobody does. We follow a shopping list of rules that help. But they are just a mere fraction of whats factored in. They lose an insane amount of money from fraud so you can bet your ass the system they use is crazy complex and incredibly detailed. They almost certainly track 100s of various factors to decide whats good or bad

Its very interesting post though.... Major credit card companies take HUGE hits from fraud, yet they do not treat everyone like a criminal....

Just reading through this..
What exactly is a merchant account?

google merchant inc, it is like paypal, but not as restrictive, it takes debit and cc securely (can use it on ebay), also takes paypal.

Man if you would of gotten it recorded and sent it to the news media paypal could face big changes. Wish that dude would of been fired!

You really are a shadow. ;)

hahahahahahahhahaha "his business model sucks" that just cracked me up....

But.... if it does suck im guessing they ban you for not making them enough money????

But.... if you sell too much and still receive all good feedback from people they ban you for making them too much money?????

These risk factors will be really hard to find out.....

Is this really surprising news to anyone? We have known for years the the killbots on both ebay and paypal look for risk factor anomalies. You raise a certain number of flags you get human review and the banned or limited. That is why one person can be violate the risk factors exactly like you, but not get banned because they are only tripping one flag instead of several.

To the poster above me:

I guess it's surprising to me because I always thought the risk factor suspended/banned issue was automated. I didn't think there was a living, breathing human that would actually determine it in a few seconds.

Great post. Are there any more details you can tell us like any points he said? Or is it too personal?

I'm dying to know at least a couple things he point out on why your "business model sucked". :lol:

I'm guessing "business model" is some kind of buzzword for ebay and paypal reps that has a special meaning to them that includes specific criteria they learn about in their training classes, and isn't the same as a layperson's definition of a business model.

Reminds me of a post I read on here about someone who had an account for 45 minutes and listed one low-risk item, got restricted and EBay said they didn't like their business model... what business model? lol

Oh I totally agree. Well, at least, I'm making the same assumption as you. I bet they have a list of checkpoints that they refer to as a "business model".

But I would call how they classify what a business model is as more laymen than what the word actually means.

They use "business model" so they dont have to say "untrustworthy" out loud. Nothing more

Hi,
Id like to add a point regarding 'business models' and how ebay/Paypal view them- There are loads (and i mean loads) of obviously pirated DVDs on ebay, i dont understand (or mind) why they cant see those as vero items or 'poor business models' yet decide that other ones are?

Next time send them a business plan and a powerpoint!

Was this just for buying? same thing happened to me. I had my pp limited (just a buying account) because i bought concert tickets. next thing i know theyve banned me and when i asked why they gave me some crap like they couldnt discuss with me risk factors involved. they are such w**kers!

I know of one Risk Factor..

1) Number of refunds completed.

To get around this ...if a customer wants a refund, i send them the money using "Send Money" option rather than "Issue Refund".

wow thats really interesting to hear man..definetely keep us updating on this i'd love to hear more

i think paypal asses your ebay account too

see if your selling naughty items

breaches

negative feedback

if you drive a yellow car or not etc

this is just my thoughts...not fact

^^ i agree with GTB there

Does it count if you issue refunds for postage?
Because if my buyer overpays on postage ( regardless of the amount) I refund the difference.