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got scammed, paypal negative balance, help!
 

Hi guys, i need some help.

I have a stealth paypal/ebay account i bought here year ago and used with care, the ebay account has excellent feedback and top rated seller rating.

Recently i sold a electronic item worth over $3000, and as soon as the buyer received it he filed for paypal claim and want to return it. I checked his ebay accounts "feedback left for others" comments and he is a professional scammer(yes i messed up, should have checked before i shipped).

Many sellers in the past left comment about getting scammed by him, he will return back a different junk electronic and keep the money, paypal doesnt care as long as it gets a tracking number.

However i managed to transfer the money out into my bank account before the claim hit by sheer luck, so now my paypal account has a -$3500+ balance.

I am prepared to lose this paypal account if i lose the claim which most likely will be the case as paypal always side with the buyer.

My question is will my ebay account also be suspended/banned? is there anyway to salvage it? will it help if i delink the paypal account? The ebay account is probably worth more than a few grand as i built a great reputation and have return customers, however i cant stomach the thought of letting this scammer win.

So angry at myself and this scammer, i am thinking about taking a 6 hour flight and have a talk with him face to face.

Is there anything that can be done to save my ebay account?

thank you

No one really knows If the Ebay account will go down. Only ebay knows. I've had Ebay's survive a Paypal Ban.

It is impossible to say for sure, but think about what you are doing by putting a solid account at risk. I would fight the claim and point out to PayPal that he has done this to other sellers in the past.

yes i am definitely going to fight it, but paypal's policy is if buyer files claim they will 100% get their money back if they return the item, and paypal's definition of returning the item is a return tracking #.

this is a pro scammer, he takes full advantage of this, i counted at least a dozen sellers since 2012 who got scammed out of thousands of dollars by him. He will buy cheap stuff and get positive feedback so his feedback page looks great, but if you click on the feedback he left for others it's all red for the expensive $1000+ auctions, and the sellers reply to his negative feedback are all similar that item was sent new he returned back different worthless electronic, scammed.

Does not say much for your pratices that you sold such an item without checking the buyer's feedback.

And the sheer luck of getting your funds out? Amazing.

If you are on the level, the first thing to do is fight with paypal. Do not come here and make statments about what paypal does or does not do.

Fight for your case as hard as you can.
You can not delink the paypal. It is attached forever.

Now here is the rub for you. If you do not fight for that paypal, you might lose that ebay. None of us know for sure.

Do not imagine for one moment a large negative balance like that will not cause issues.
:argue:

Fight the case as much as you can. I hope you sent the item with signature confirmation if it was 3k purchase. I would also point that out to PayPal in the dispute. Show a screen shot of his negative feedback's etc. To prove your point.

Fight it with PayPal pointing out the number of times he has done this.

If he does send something back, I would video record myself opening it

Yes i have the signature confirmation as well as photos of the item before it was sent. I plan to respond today to the claim.

also to clarify i did check his feedback before sending, his feedback was all good since sellers cannot leave negative feedback, and i didnt think much of it. But it's his feedback left for others where you see all the reds, lesson learnt.

DEFINITELY attach a screenshot of the ratings he has left for other sellers.

Can you not open a case against this buyer for trying to De-fraud you?

The more power you have against the buyer, the better chances you have at winning your fight against him.

Collect all this data (as you are doing right now) and present it clearly and logically to PP. You seem to be handling it well

Have to demonstrate clearly to PP this buyer's sad past history...keep pushing OP

If you have all the docs and pics plus feedback proof your going to be fine. I've been down this many times and I always won. Just be calm and respectful when you call paypal to resolve this you will come out ahead. I would also explain that noticing this scammer is why you withdrew all your funds from paypal to ease the process of resolution in your case.

EVEN if PP sides with you (which they don't side with the seller) - the buyer will go to their credit card and you will still have the chargeback - again, even if PP reverses the claim. your PP would be locked until you pay the balance and a ton of paperwork will be asked of you.

if you try to de-link it from ebay - you will have to provide another method of fees.

i de-linked all my paypals from buying and the seller's account wanted a credit card in order to de-link the paypal - and even then, after the fees were paid - EB said 0.99 was still owed for a future month, not yet billed, even tho i had sold nothing and had paid all my fees. so EB would not let that seller acct close.

if you attach another PP to that EB - you would be linked.

the funds are already in your bank and moved out, yes?

I agree that PayPal mostly sides with the buyers. HOWEVER - if a buyer is constantly filing claims and other sellers have been ripped off, then it is not quite so automatic. Yes, they could STILL side with the buyer, but it is NOT a guarantee.

From the information provided by the OP, I believe it pays to fight this particular case.

In the event of a chargeback, I would also advise the bank of the buyer's behavior.

The OP has nothing to lose by fighting this.

If handled correctly given the info above this should be a win for the OP.

Keep us informed.

I would not bet on that.

Recall that thread by boost?
http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...buyer-ftl.html

Lost big time.

OP needs to be persistent and insistent with this issue.

:mad:

Collect all your info and open your package at your local police station and have them as a witness. Then email that report to paypal when he opens a case.

Inform the buyer this will happen and an extra 2-3 days is needed to process a high value return because of the above. Warn the buyer this is for their protection and in the case of fraud you report to their local police/paypal and also ICS and whatever else there is.

Also video tape you opening the package.

If you do the above you will not lose the case. Also point out to paypal his past feedback.

I would even go so far if you could to contact your internet scam department(police) before getting the package...Then I would pay the extra fees(if sent ups/fedex) to have the package rerouted to the detective assigned to the case. Then have him fax a letter to paypal on police letter head when the sucker opens the case.

I would want to read his emails to CS as that could have had a deciding factor in the reps decision.

Nice ideas if the buyer decides to return the item

Even with 'facts' in front of them, both ebay and paypal have made some outrageous decisions. ( for another thread though)

thank you guys for the support, i am just waiting now. Those are the worst kind of scammer, if they out right try to scam you with a chargeback etc..then paypal/ebay can resolve, but those guys act legit and scam the loophole in the claim process.

The problem is this is a stealth account even though i have been a perfect seller. So i cant really do anything outside of ebay/paypal... any kind of police report or filing with bbb requires my real identity which doesnt match against the account. :ban?: i am hoping ebay will look at the seller fees i am paying each invoice ($250+) and take that into consideration since all they care is money, and my perfect feedback over the last year.

i would say best to un-link the ebay account and dont log in the paypal anymore .
i had my paypal suspended luckly it was not attached to ebay so nothing went wrong.
but try that there are no links found between ur ebay and the - paypal account.

Don't hold your breath. I once lost an account - years ago - where I was paying more than $4,000 per month in fees. At that time, featured auctions were $100, and all of my auctions were featured.

$250 in fees is nothing to Ebay, they start to notice you at $10000 a month and even than they will can you because they know there is 50 people taking your place

Well it's a **** show. I provided all the details including photos of the item in its packaging before shipped as well as the ****ing screenshot of the monitoring software showing the hardware working correctly for 2+ weeks nonstop, all of which were part of the auction photos too. I showed them the history of negative feedbacks this douche left for other sellers and the sellers response which is all along the lines of "the item was working correctly you lied.". All stated clearly and concise.

I also provided screenshot of the usps signature confirmation which has the timestamp when he signed and his first response saying nothing is working which he filed wthin 20 mins of signing for the package, I highlighted the timestamps for both, converted to PST for ebay, and stated the 20 min gap and there is no way even a pro can setup this kind of hardware in 20 mins and test it. And this guy was asking me basic questions like how to plug in the power it's not physically possible he actually even tested this.

The case got routed to high value claims in ebay and i got a response from a real person (or so i thought) saying they need a bit time to check which had my hope up, then literally within 5 minutes another email came saying it ruled in the buyers favor. It's all bull**** i am sure they didnt even bother to read anything i wrote and just fed it through their automated system, all the responses are canned copy paste. Those ****ers.

Now the buyer is dragging his feet to send the hardware back, i am sure he's playing around with it until the last day of the 10 day limit to send it with a replaced part or damaged.

It's time like this i wish my account was not stealth, then i can go after this asshole.

@newdude05, you have his address....you get his phone number...you go at it hard if you have the time and power. Sad story to hear but yes, this is the inherent risk of online sales

Lol all these people saying do tnis do that. You cant do anything and you always lose these cases. SNAD is a 100 percent seller loser. Put your video cameras and deputy badges away SNAD is a loser and it sucks!

PP doesn't always rule in buyer's favor in the case of "not as described". But you really have to arm yourself heel to toe if selling those high risk items (electronics value more than $500).

1. First, go get those unique temper proof sticker (with serial number printed) and attach them to the item you are selling. If the buyer tries to remove those, it will fail apart into powder form (same as the one attached to your printer toner).

2. Make sure you have a picture in your eBay listing showing the sticker and the serial number. Make it clear in your listing that you do not accept return if these stickers were removed.

3. Take a picture of the item with sticker right next printed shipping label before dispatch.

4. When the returned package arrive. Don't open it yet! Take your phone camera and record the whole unboxing process!

If you have these evidence available, Paypal is going to rule in your favor almost 100%.

want to update on the latest outcome of this as it may help other who got themselves into a similar situation to know what to expect.

so the guy waited until 3 days before the deadline to send me back the hardware, as expected it's missing 2 main parts ( i guess he needed those as replacement), also one corner of a metal pin was bent, you can clearly see he took a piler and bend it to show physical damage & reason for not as described case - the teeth mark are still visible.

I sent the ebay high value guy an unboxing video along with photos of the physical damage and teeth mark, indicating there is no way a metal pin would get bent and damaged like this during shipping while in full foam protection, also the fact the bent pin doesnt affect the hardware function at all. That the key is 2 parts are missing.

I sent 2 emails, never heard a response back. Instead my ebay and paypal account went into their automatic workflow which says tracking indicate you received package -> refund issued to buyer -> pay your account or we limit you and send to collection agency -> both ebay and paypal account limited -> i am at this stage, i am sure the next step is the collection agency.

Those ****ers at the ebay high value department are the absolute worst assholes, they take no responsibility and just don't care at all, the regular customer service is much better by comparison.

I had a similar experience with their high value dept a few years back, the guy mistakenly closed the case thinking it was a different one, even the closing comment he put is for the wrong case. But he refused to reopen or help, kept yelling on the phone saying decision is final there is no one else you can talk to. Basically once it goes through their system noone can touch it. Of course i was using my real account that time, i filed with BBB and ca's consumer affairs dept. Then got a call from their vp or something. a week or so later ebay sent me a check for the full amount, and a response via email saying they will looking into training their staff better...

Anyway getting sidetracked - bottomline if you use stealth you are pretty much ****ed in item not as described cases (i am not sure if above temper proof seal etc..will work, you can try). But if you are using real account, dont give up, those assholes at high value dept will always try to stonewall you, they wont do anything else but follow the computer process. Instead go file with bbb, consumer affair etc.. you will get your money back.

Re: got scammed, paypal negative balance, help!
 

What does bbb or consumer affairs do about it?