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Paypal buyer calls my local police FBI involved
 

About 4 months ago I sold a Twilight Zone DVD box-set on eBay. The buyer used BUY IT NOW and paid immediately. I later received an e-mail from the guy asking me to ship to a specific address that is in a different state other than the one associated with his Paypal account. I was a newbie then so I figured if that will make him happy fine. I did not anticipate any problems. I shipped the box set PRIORITY mail and of course got a delivery confirmation so we could track the progress of the package. A few days later the item shows up as delivered on the USPS website. So I figure everything is great. About a week or two later I begin receiving e-mails from the buyer. The buyer claims to have not gotten the DVD set. (keep in mind he provided me with a different address other than his PP) I got suspicious and told him I would ship a replacement. I of course never shipped out another one because I have the delivery confirmation. By this time I was frustrated with Paypal for some other reasons and decided not to deal with them anymore so I closed this account completely. Today I get a call from a local police detective about internet fraud. I was basically told by said detective that I would need to pay this guy his $165.00 via money order to "resolute" this situation. Apparently he filed a claim against me after I had already closed my account and of course Paypal would not give him his money back. Thing is I KNOW he is scamming me because I have proof his item was delivered but now I am worried because the detective told me the FBI is involved too. So I am going to be getting a money order after work today and mailing it to him signature required. I will not be selling anything online for a VERY long time! :(

uh, why are u doing this. why didnt u just print out the emails where he told you where to send it and show them the delivery confirmation??? You did nothing wrong. I would not pay it!

yea, they usually wont get involved over $165. It was prolly the guy trying to get the money out of you. You would be surprized what people will do for a lil change. SMH.

Well it is a local police detective. I looked it up and called him back/spoke with him 3 times. It is all completely legit. So I'm not sure why this happened either. He also left a notice at my front door which scared me because this all is a little too extreme for $165.00. The phone number and fax number of the police detective check out but still this all so extreme. Who the hell has the time these days to do this?

i wouldnt pay it. YOU HAVE PROOF! unless you did something wrong that you aren't telling us or the DVD box set was a ⊗⊗⊗⊗.

Yes I am 100% sure! He told me that the report was filed with local police, Internet Fraud and FBI. The buyer is in Wisconsin I am in Illinois and the phone number for the detective is from my local police department! This isn't a joke or anything so that is I am so freaked! I mean I mailed the item to where he requested. I haven't had that Paypal account for 3 months so I do not understand why Paypal didn't just refund him under Buyer protection!

if you sent the package to where he said to send it, and you copied and faxed him the proof that it was delivered to the address he wanted. It is out of your hands. If it was delivered and maybe stolen, he can take it up with paypal and they will refund him. But since you're no long registered, I dont know if they can track it. (maybe they can maybe not, not real sure)

I do not have proof because I do not have the e-mail where the buyer requested Florida delivery. Only the delivery confirmation to Florida. The item itself is not in dispute, the buyer claims he did not receive anything!

Thats what I don't understand about Paypal. I nolonger have the account so I closed it out without anything left unresolved and he waited a long time before filing a Paypal dispute/claim so why wouldn't Paypal just refund him? How was all of this police detective FBI stuff even possible?

Paypal may just dismiss the dispute. In my experience usually when people wait like 3 months to file a dispute on an item they dismiss it. I agree with the dismissal, why wouldnt you dispute it as soon as you noticed something wrong, why wait months later?

LoL, the FBI involved for an item purchased off the internet not being received. That makes me laugh.

I remember shortly before I closed my account I had a buyer who filed a non-receipt claim two days after ordering the item and because of a glitch the buyer got his money back that day. Before that week was out the item was delivered to the PP address and the buyer had the item and the money. So I just let it go because PP told me that once the buyer is refunded they cannot just take the money from the buyer's account. So I ended up eating that one and closed the account shortly after. The point there is PP advised me to contact the police and FBI about internet fraud as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if PP told this guy the same thing and gave him all the information he needed to nail me to the wall. This all just so nuts! It just doesn't pay to be a seller today.

I mean if you have to get the police/internet fraud/FBI involved because of non-receipt it is almost laughable but this is what happened and I don't know what else I can do besides send him the money order. I even have the police detective's fax number to send the mail order receipt. This is so crazy!

Exactly. It would cost me more in time and maybe contacting a lawyer than to just send the money order and eat the transaction. So thats why I am caving. I am just freaked out at the extremeness of this!

The only question is why would the FBI be involved over 165.00 do you think the detective was just telling me all of this as a scare tactic to get me to pay immediately?

WHAT?? I can almost bet you that call you got was from the buyer and not the FBI. the FBI will not get involved on anything that small ,especially $165. you've been dupped. and if you have delivery confirmation why would you even send the money order?? Seems like your not telling the whole story there.

And yes even if that was the detective he was just trying to scare you. Dont mail and tell him to press charges if he wants. you have all the evidence you need. Trust me. I had my run ins with detectives and they like to scare you. tell them NO

Phone number from your local police department? You sure he didnt spoof the number and trick you. i wouldnt give the buyer anything.

i got an email from the local police department once about an item that wasnt delivered. the buyer made a complaint on whatever the fbis website is for fraud. the email came about 6-8 months after the complaint was filed. a $40 item i think. by this time the buyer had been suspended on ebay and i just told them that and gave the delivery confirmation number that showed it as being delivered.

i dont know much about laws but i would imagine you would have to go to court over this and they would have to find in favor of the buyer. the cops arent just going to call you and be like "you have to pay" cause that isnt what they do. they would turn the case over to the legal system.

assuming youre telling the truth the thing on your door would indeed freak me out a little. even if its some big ruse i wouldnt want anyone like that near me haha.

Well I got the money order and plan to mail it tomorrow signature required delivery. Also, I will be faxing a copy of the money order receipt to the police detective. I truly hope that none of you skeptics have to go through anything like this. It is a terrible feeling and it proves that the internet is just not a safe place for sellers anymore.

Raul4510, did you put your real info in your paypal and/or ebay account? Or did the police track you down despite it? Basically explain to the detective the buyer frauded you and prove it.

yes it is my real info. I don't know how to prove it.

Couple of points : Keep every email you exchange when a request is out of the usual, in this case, shipping to a different address. Make sure you are prepared for any fight you may have to keep hold of your own money. No use to say months later, 'I do not have that email'.
As for FBI being involved, I strongly suspect that your local detective is not telling you the truth, pay the money BUT to cover yourself, get the FBI file number for this matter as well. Always keep your back covered.I have
the impression that you are in fact being bullied.

I strongly believe it is a bullying tactic as well but I faxed a copy of the money order to the detective and tried to reach him again this morning but he is out of the office right now. So I will be calling him before I leave work this evening to make sure there is nothing else he needs from me. Also, I will remember to ask him for an FBI case #.

The FBI does not get involved for $165. In fact, they will hang up the phone or not even answer your emails if you email them about something like that.

What I would recommend doing is contact your local police department and ask them if there was anything filed against you. Either way you'll know for sure by then.

If your local police didn't call you about it, tell them that you got a call from someone impersonating a police officer and threatening you with the FBI and that you suspect the buyer. That'll give him a nice holiday in US-controlled Cuba.

The police doesn't even get involved in internet fraud for amounts below $1,000 or even $5,000....I can't remember the exact amount, but it surely is over $1,000.

It has been established that this really is my local police department. However, the only thing I am not sure of is the FBI's involvement. The detective told me that the Illinois Internet Crimes Division and The FBI passed the case on to him locally. He says the case is on file with all 3 places. The next time I talk with him I will be requesting an FBI case #. I think he was just telling me this to get me to pay and if that is the truth I will find out soon enough.

Call "INternal Affairs".. :)

yeah it sounds to me like this is similar to what happened to me. only instead of an email you got a phone call. theres a website that people can file

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | File a Complaint

this one i think. the "fbi" then forwards the complaint to the local police to investigate. what you probably should have done is told him that you did deliver the item and dont owe the buyer anything. i dont think theres really anything they can do. nonetheless for peace of mind maybe $165 payment is worth it.

Do not pay the person. Paying is an admission of guilt and if you do, it can be used against you in a court of law. Police are known to lie to get convicts and the detective already lied about the FBI so if you pay $165 then you might be in more trouble by doing so. The detective called you instead of going to your home and bringing you to the police office for questioning so that could mean he doubts you are guilty.

Also PayPal always claims to offer buyers complete protection so it's possible the buyer got the money from paypal and if not then that's PayPal frauding the buyer through false advertising -- make sure the detective knows both of these things.

Call the police department, not the detective if it's some private detective or ⊗⊗⊗⊗, and try to contact the department or detective through it. If the detective does not exist, then inform them of the ⊗⊗⊗⊗ detective as it could even be some debt collector posing as a detective. Else contact the detective. Either way, explain your story and how the buyer scammed you, even if no proof, give your story and try to get the detective to investigate the buyer. It's possible the buyer scammed others and try to persuade the detective to investigate the buyer.

Buyer paid paypal, then said don't ship to my confirmed address but elsewhere.
You did so and have tracking.
Buyer filed fraudulent paypal dispute.
Buyer filed fraudulent police report, which is probably a felony or some such.

At the very least the buyer can go to jail for the fraudulent police report or get probation at the very least. Also, the police can get the details of who owns the address you shipped to even if it's a PO Box as long as it is in the USA and see if it does in fact belong to the buyer as if so that is evidence.

The detective claims Paypal will not give the buyer back his money because my Paypal account is closed.

paypal's buyer protection has nothing to do with whether or not the account is open or closed. the fact is that at the time of the transaction your account was open, therefore the buyer was eligible for paypal buyer protection, and that doesn't just go away if you closed your account.

Something's fishy here..

How do you know the buyer didn't already get back his money through PayPal, then wants his money back through you ...AND got the items free of charge on top?

Very fishy none of it makes any sense to me. I mailed the money order and I guess the buyer wasn't around to sign for it because here is usps.com tracking info: Label/Receipt Number: 7006 2150 0001 5502 0879
Status: Notice Left

We attempted to deliver your item at 9:08 AM on August 9, 2008 in SCHOFIELD, WI 54476 and a notice was left. It can be redelivered or picked up at the Post Office. If the item is unclaimed, it will be returned to the sender. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later

I have been trying to get a hold of the police detective since I mailed the money order on 8/7/2008 and he is NEVER in. I left three voice mails for him to get back to me. I am really getting angry about this because I faxed him a copy of the money order and the post office receipts. Plus the tracking information. So I do not know why he hasn't called me back to confirm anything or let me know that this is all taken care of? It's as if he didn't expect me to follow through when I told him I would send the buyer his money back. He goes through all the trouble of talking tough and mentioning Internet Crimes Division and mail fraud, and the FBI and then when I do what he and the buyer wanted, the detective just disappears.

The other thing I was thinking is what if Paypal did eventually refund the buyer and the detective just got around to calling me on 8/6 making the entire thing pointless? If Paypal refunded him he had no reason to file a police report/internet fraud report anyway. All of these things have me convinced 100% that the buyer is a complete scam artist. There really is no way for me to know! So I paid and now I am being ignored. Not sure if that is good or bad? When I called the police department they told me the only person I can speak to about this is the detective handling the case. So if he is never in or he is just ignoring me I will not find out anything. Does anybody know what else I can do to get some answers?

I know a good bit about how the bureau operates and in no way would they be involved other than to pass the info off to a local police department. They have monetary loss levels that must be reached in order for them to bother with it any further than taking the report and passing it on. They will, however, take a report on anything that might even remotely falls under federal jurisdiction but that in no way means they will be involved in the investigations or prosecution of whatever someone was complaining about.
This detective, or whoever he is, just implied the bureau's involvement, which I suppose if the initial report was filed with them or the original complaint made through their system is actually accurate, to a very limited point.
This is $165 bucks people. Come on. I, personally, would never have sent the money order. Last time I checked, one is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. ..

Also, if this detective is not returning your calls you need to make a concerted effort to speak to his supervisor. Something just isn't right about this whole thing...

The tracking info still says that the money order was not claimed and that bothers me! The buyer went far enough to file a police report so now he needs to do me the courtesy of signing for has money back. Also still no luck in reaching the detective. I called the police department directly to express my displeasure with him not returning my calls and two different operators told me: "I don't know his schedule." So I'm not sure who to contact next. I'm really thinking about calling the FBI to see if there really is a file over this measly $165.00 or if the detective lied. I just want the detective to return my calls!

Just go down to the police station and stop messing around and see this jackA** in person.

They are yanking your chain man!

Yeah you can just go down to the police office and talk to him instead of trying to call. I had to do that for a "fix it ticket" and they were very nice! Not a big deal to go there...

Thats what I finally did yesterday evening and he was there and told me everything is fine now that I paid. Weird.

I see you learned 2 new words today. Is that the reason you gave me 2 infractions. For 1. me being "naive". and 2. for me being "skeptical"?? Discuss