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Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Hi all,

I recently closed a PayPal account after 12 months of use. All financial information was removed before the closure and the account status was clean without a limitation in place.

2 months on and I received a rather strange email from PayPal UK explaining that the account has raised some serious security concerns and have recovered the account from the previous closure to help them understand these concerns.

Thinking I wouldn't be able to login, as the account was supposed to be 'closed' on their system, to my surprise I was logged into the account successfully.

What became even stranger was that all deleted financial information, both my bank account and debit card, were back in my Wallet and couldn't be removed due to a new limitation they've placed.

I've never known this in 7 years of using PayPal. Although they retained account records and fragments of finance data, they've now started taking random snapshots of our accounts, allowing them to restore back to that state and reverse any changes to its information like removing a card.

There was one step to appeal the limitation, which is to send various bits of documentation to "address our concerns" regarding the account's use.

Has anyone else encountered this yet? Are account closures and removal of finance data becoming as less secure as keeping it on the account in the first place?

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

PayPal never really delete information.

I have not come across them re-adding bank accounts and cards before nor clsing an account only to be able to log in a few months alter again, but its always been the case that just because you delete information off PayPal doesn't mean that its actually removed from their system

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Over the past few months they've been upgrading their service. From a brand new Resolution Center to an improved login interface.

It seems that they've also upgraded their anti-fraud system. They will now continuously block any transactions outgoing for days until a human reviews the risk and marks it as authorized or unauthorized access. This is how most limitations are placed, so I close accounts when this happens before they have a chance to shoot me metaphorically.

According to their support service, PayPal reserve the right to retain; restore or otherwise distribute, in accordance with their User Agreement, most account information in the prevention of fraud and high-risk use of PayPal.

Whilst they never delete records, this occurrence could be a new feature for their security processes.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Apparently the Interpol database is also being used to verify authenticity of documents, confirmed via account specialist in escalations. Not sure if that's true but if so huge upgrade...

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Oh please....:doh:

Nothing new is really happening at all. They have always been able to keep your personal data for 6 years plus. There is no actual legal time frame to how long a company can keep personal data, under the Data Protection Act. However the 'guidelines' are 'no longer than necessary'. Now since Ebay and Paypal both chase for debts owed, and the statute barred time limit under the Limitation Act is 6 years from the time the debt is marked as a default, then you are looking realistically at 6 - 8 years they can quite legally keep all your personal data for.

No need to panic, nothing has changed regarded what they know about you.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Er...actually if what Zamzam said about verifying documents is true, then things have changed drastically and no stealth account is safe - even if it previously passed checks. This would explain the recent rise in number of accounts people have reported being limited. I think common sense dictates at some point they would have to start verifying customer data as things were pretty haphazard in past.

As always with stealth proceed with caution to limit any losses that can easily be incurred.

Regarding them retaining your card and bank details, if you're paranoid about them keeping them on their system, report the card as lost and get a new card number issued. Obviously not so easy with bank but, since no good for paypal anymore maybe close account. I have to admit I'm not happy about them keeping my bank details in dormant paypal accounts either.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

GET REAL! What Zamzam says is completely unfounded and untrue.

Interpol now working for paypal to confirm documents?:pound:

You do understand interpol doesn't actually have any agents and all it is, is a liason system between signed up members? Each member country will nominate people from their own law enforcement agencies to act with equivilant others, if a trans national investigation is required.

There is no sudden rise in accounts limited at all. No more from 6 months ago, no more than a year ago, no more than 3 or 5 years ago.

People (stealthers) always think this but it is always proved as rubbish. Human nature predicts we put more empathisis on more recent actions and memories. So if you have had recent accounts close or read about a lot of closures then that is the memory most at the forefront of your mind. Paypal and ebay have always worked in cycles where they can have above average account closures and plunders that can last 3 or more months at a time.

And why would you report a card lost or stolen? Any card you have attached should be a virtual card if you add one at all, not a real one in your name. There are only very specific ways it is even possible to add a 'real' card in your own name in stealth, so rare you will hardly ever see it mentioned on here because if operating like this you wouldn't be '100% stealth'.

So please tell me why you feel there is a need to phone up the bank to cancel a card in your name?

Why is there an issue with paypal keeping hold on your bank details anyway? If you operate stealth well and use bank accounts how they should with stealth then it should make absolutely no difference at all. Paypal would still have your details whether you shut your account or not, and banks still keep all details of closed accounts on file for years too.

The only thing that should be done with a limited paypal, is if there is an account with an active DD attached, then cancel it. However that is standard basic stealth anyway.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

If you took your time to read what I outlined OP instead of jumping to conclusions, maybe your response would have been of a alternative nature. Either way no one said anything about Interpol working for pp. What was confirmed by one of their account specialist is they have access to the Interpol database and use it to corfirm authenticity of docs occasionally...

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

A-I am not the OP

B- You are talking absolute BS. Paypal do not have access to any such data base. It is bad enough you were told this BS, even worse you believe it.

C- The only database that would be even relevent is the SLTD database, which only Law Enforcement, Customs etc have the power to check. However since ONLY passports etc. that have been reported lost or stolen are on this list, it should be irrelevant to ALL stealthers here, since stealth relies on using fictional details.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Hahahaha interpol? No such database!

Who ever came up with that idea owes me a new keyboard, i just spat my drink i'm laughing that much. Flip sake... can't make this up!

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

So Blobby, you're saying Paypal have no way of checking any docs because only law enforcement have access to check them Lol. How do you think banks and building societies check docs are valid??? Even the post office are running an identity scheme now so I am certain a multi national business such as Paypal has no problem when they do bother to make checks - normally after accounts have been limited.

As for paypal retaining bank and card details, then yes some of us had our real details in Paypal accounts once - which probably remain there to this day. That would be a good reason to report a card as lost.

You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it is inevitable Paypal will be stepping up checks for customers, especially since they seem to be heavily promoting their credit schemes including the monthly payments for ebay items. You must have noticed the option of monthly payments now appearing beside the buy now button on many ebay items. To offer credit to customers they need to check identities, so the more customers they check the more people they can offer credit to = more profit for Paypal.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Read paypals terms and conditions! They hire a third party to check if a document has been edited!

they are not a bank, they don't have the authority to do government checks.

The third party uses a software program to see if a document has been edited. The best edited documents can pass. the ones that are badly done obviously do not.

It's all in paypals terms and conditions if you have the patience to read them.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Again.... a third party offers credit checking on behalf of paypal. not document checking!!!


Also,

there are millions of people out there that don't have a credit profile. that don't have government issued ids. there is no legal requirement to do so.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Never said that at all. I just said what zamzam stated was complete rubbish and Interpol have nothing to do with any process. Only so much paypal can check. That is completely irrelevant to what has been said and payapl have been able to do this for years.


Not on stealth accounts, unless you are a total idiot. Or using for a very rare specific use.


They have always done this. Done these checks and had the potential to use Credit agencies. Nothing has changed. That isn't me burying my head in the sand. That is me reading this forum for enough years to realise that people panic and scaremonger at the slightest little bit of hearsay without any evidence to back it up.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Yes, they obviously have multiple backups of all the data on their systems so in theory even if you did delete it from your particular account the data could reappear at a later date if they restored the system. I believe people have said old addresses have suddenly reappeared again after having been changed months ago.

Plus it is in their interest to retain bank and card details, so they can make sure people never use them again after permanent limitations etc.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

I think you've made your point with this now and it's getting boring with all your nit picking. Lets just drop it now otherwise this will go on ad nauseam.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

I couldn't give a monkeys if you find it boring.

It is important forum members can see the difference between FACT and made up BS which is completely false and pure scaremongering.

If you call that nit picking then so be it. :good:

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

I have spoken with PayPal on the phone about the situation and were also able to query the disputed fact that has been raised here.

Firstly, the PayPal representative mentioned that re-opening an account is an existing (not new) measure taken when there is sufficient evidence that PayPal's exposure to issues with buyers or law enforcement are risk assessed to be highly likely.

She said that all previously removed funding sources were restored, in order to ensure that the account's integrity is maintained in case of a situation listed above.

In terms of data retention, PayPal have confirmed that exact processes are not available publicly, but in accordance with the User Agreement, do reserve the right to retain transaction data, finance data and all other data needed to ensure the safe and secure use of the PayPal service for all customers.

Despite originally adding one step to complete to have the limitation reviewed, the representative performed their review over the phone and after the call ended, the account was permanently limited and will remain so with all funding sources attached without expiration, in accordance with the User Agreement.

The exact reason for the limitation was use of the PayPal service that is considered to be high-risk, reckless or otherwise disruptive to the smooth running of the PayPal service. This limitation cannot be appealed nor can the account be closed again - any funds held (which there isn't) would not be released after 180 days without verified Photo ID and proof of address.

Quite a harsh stance - but PayPal are extremely touchy when it comes to using their service to sell account information (not cracked, new and with the customer's details).

In terms of documentation, they did not confirm nor deny that a database updated by the government was used. They said that they use a variety of resources to ensure the validation and approval of documentation for PayPal "Know Your Customer" requirements. They could not release any further information publicly.

I'll have to move on from scratch now.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Let's get something straight here, why would someone BS something a PayPal representative has confirmed unless there nuts? In elaboration to what was mentioned earlier I rang PayPal in regards to a limited account based on docs failing. They wouldn't disclose the exact reason to why this happened, but the account specialist went on to say they have a variety of third party softwares used to confirm authenticity of the docs supplied. One of which is the Interpol database (they cross reference document numbers), not that this happens on all docs but is our last resort...

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Again get your facts straight... who mentioned anything about believing this. That's the last thing you want in your back Pockit. This was only mentioned to get opinions of users who think they know how PP works. Obviously your opinion was based purely on speculation so why don't we just leave it at that shall we?

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

NO we won't.

You are full of Sh*t, a gullible fool who knows SFA if you think paypal use an 'interpol' database, that doesn't even exit.

Now jog on mug.:deadhorse:

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

If a paypal rep has 'confirmed it' they are full of sh*t.

If you believe it, you are a ret*rd.
.
If you then speculate about it on a forum with no basis when people have their livings at stake? Well, simply....see you next Tuesday

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Listen up kid, don't get to personal with me as that's the last thing you'd probably want. Just because our opinions collide doesn't give you any reason to become so harsh with your intelligence. Move on nobody has time for your drama...

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

You have some imagination...
Only driving licenses can be verified by private companies, and only if the driver provides an access code. Interpol has no information on you, and will not be given any, unless you are under investigation for a crime.

Three things appear to have changed in recent years:
1. Paypal has improved their documents verification...and can now catch a lot of forgeries. If your documents are real, there is no problem!
2. Many ISPs are now using ipv6, so your IP is tied to your computer's unique MAC address... rebooting your router will not change the identifier.
3. Paypal probably uses canvas fingerprinting, which will link 2 paypal accounts, even if you are switching user accounts in your computer.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

In regards to canvas fingerprinting, is there any solution to this?

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Of course there is... Just use virtual machines, with different OS installed.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

A less hardcore approach to stopping PayPal from performing canvas fingerprinting is to install an extension into Chrome or equivalent. This hinders the browser functionality required to accurately fingerprint your device to them.

It's important to remember that canvas fingerprinting isn't a verified security measure nor endorsed in their industry and therefore most likely isn't utilized on the PayPal network.

I would see it as more of an extra measure than a necessity when running a stealth account.

Nobody should be allowed to be this nasty and personal on a public forum.

This user has a pattern of abusive behaviour which discredits him/her, which is a shame because he/her has some reasonable opinions.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Says the mug who has been here 10 weeks. Don't like it go elsewhere.

One way or the other, whatever happens, I will ALWAYS be here.:yar:

What a strange, yet predictable creature you are. The more someone criticises you, the fiercer your response.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Please indulge me, though I understand if you can't, and you have my permission to attack me instead.

What does the length of time I've been registered to this forum have to do with understanding/acceptance of normal social responses?

As a further observation, which you may acknowledge or not as you see fit, you have been on this forum for a fraction of the time of some members whom you abuse.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Well said, but there's no point in giving this kid any attention. He's had a harsh upbringing and just wants some attention. :ballchain:

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Go to the Experian website and read up on the different ways they can verify documents to prove a persons identity, in particular 'Document verification with AutoDoc-ID' which uses a simple picture of the document emailed to them for verification. There are many such companies offering these services so I think some posters on this forum need to stop insisting only government agencies and law enforcement can verify passports and driving licences.

Ok in the OP Interpol was mentioned which seems to have started a firestorm of debate Lol. However just because a paypal operative mentioned Interpol it doesn't mean they actually use them, he or she was probably just exaggerating but, never the less, they have plenty of other options at their disposal to verify any documents sent to them.

All the petty arguing and name calling going on in here over this subject would be better left in the school playground where it belongs. This is supposed to be a place for discussion not for bragging about how long people have been posting on here, as if that entitles them to act like idiots.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

LOL, listen up kid go back to your sloppy porridge!

Users hate your childish remarks and comments. Your better off posting on one of them arcade websites for under 12's.... :pound:

Ignore him/her.

Reading the threads he/she posts in, almost every other user does. The senior members literally ignore him/her. Must have blocked them.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Its a shame people like him are on this forum. It brings it down to the chav 'leakforums' level.

To alert the moderators use the report button on his posts - the little esclamation mark.

I fear he has had some really bad things happen to him in his life and he feels the need to be aggresive and abusive to 'be heard'. In a previous job i worked with victims of infant sexual abuse and his behaviours echoes theres - so its pribably not his direct fault he is the way he is, he needs some help and probably just some love.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Don't be paranoid!
Yes there are many companies offering document verification, but it's all about speeding up the process.
1. They try to automatically match the photo of the ID/Passport to the selfie some companies require (PayPal doesn't).
2. They use OCR (optical character reader) technology to read the text from the ID documents and Bills or Bank statements.
If the details match...you are verified fast! If they don't, you may get blocked and/or go in a list to be re-examined by a human.

Now... Experian can also do a credit check on you, BUT
1. A credit record has to exist (young people, or EU migrants, will not have one).
2. A new, previously unused address will not produce a match.
3. Credit records only go back 6 years.
4. It will only work in some countries (UK, Ireland, and USA as far as I know).
5. It is illegal to access credit records without permission. They have to ask you first!

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

Read my post properly before posting, I was referring to Experian Document Verification not credit checking. So in that case they need no permission to consult any database as customer has already willingly sent them his (or her) documents for verification. Plus I think you'll find Paypal terms and conditions state they may need to consult a credit reference agency or otherwise confirm a customers identity under the KYC rules to prevent money laundering.

In your comprehensive list above you missed out the importance of document Barcodes on utility bills and bank statements and the role they play in verification but I'm not going into details of that on here.

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

This will work, but could be a possible red-flag placed on your account. I prefer to have a browser which appears to be normal.
This works very well for me, and I currently have PP accounts which are 6+ years old. I actually use different computers for each one. Cheap £50 used netbooks I bought from eBay. I only use them for PayPal LOL!

Re: Account Snapshot System - NEW PayPal Security
 

I explained that all they do is matching the photo ID to the selfie (paypal doesn't require this), and the OCR read details to the ones provided by the user. That's all they do. They also check for known forgeries (wrong fonts is one example) and signs of photo editing (file metadata, pixel patterns, etc). If everything is OK, which will be if you are careful, the verification will go through.

I know all about the utility bill bar-codes, but they are nothing special. The one next to the address is basically the origin and destination postcodes, and sometimes there is another one (QR code) which is a website link. These should also match, as a precaution.

Bottom line is...there is no need to be paranoid, just pay attention to the detail and do things right! There are nearly 600,000 births every year in the UK, which also means the same number of new adults every year. These people will not have any address or credit history, so it is not that uncommon...is it?