In serious trouble. Legal letter!!

Fizzy_Vimto · #23 06-19-2010

yeah i see where you're coming from. Im not exactly a legal expert, although i have got a law degree! Anyway. In england for sure they are a lot more lenient and less strict than the american legal system. What do you propose would be the worst outcome if i just play daft that yes i did it but promise not do do it again seeing as it's only a very small amount

jeffweico · #24 06-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzy_Vimto

yeah i see where you're coming from. Im not exactly a legal expert, although i have got a law degree! Anyway. In england for sure they are a lot more lenient and less strict than the american legal system. What do you propose would be the worst outcome if i just play daft that yes i did it but promise not do do it again seeing as it's only a very small amount

That was the reasoning behind my original suggestion. Make them know you are a very tiny fish in a very big pond - that they have bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

One thing, though... If your parents DO receive a call or a visit from the police, or any other UK law enforcement agency (which I HIGHLY DOUBT will happen), then GET AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY! At that point, you really would need legal representation.

oompaloompa · #25 06-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzy_Vimto

yeah i see where you're coming from. Im not exactly a legal expert, although i have got a law degree! Anyway. In england for sure they are a lot more lenient and less strict than the american legal system. What do you propose would be the worst outcome if i just play daft that yes i did it but promise not do do it again seeing as it's only a very small amount

Ignorance of law is no defence, selling just one is illegal, what is it you DONT understand, youve got a law degree, well so have millions of others they dish them out like sweeties nowadays, when I was at uni you had to be really clever to get in, DO NOT reply, if your dad wants to call them and say it was you, whatever, if YOU dont say anything YOU wont be admitting to anything.....if you call them and start saying I wont do it again blah blah they might make an example of you, unlikely in UK as you said, but if you admit to it, you will deserve everything you get, Jeffs advice is incorrect, the other contributors are correct in this instance..

MtnDew · #26 06-19-2010

ya first thing a lawyer would tell you is to say nothing...soooo best to say nothing.

teedon · #27 06-19-2010

Rosetta Stone, p90x, Insanity,zumba are not allowed to sell on ebay now,please be careful if you want to list them on ebay.And the beatles also can not list on ebay any more.

slapped · #28 06-19-2010

I wil say it again, They WILL NOT procecute you for 4 Peices I Have Dealt with these guys MORE Than Once, The Biggest MISTAKE I EVER Made in reguards to VERO Was that the first time it Happened to me for p90x I hired a Lawyer, cost me over 3 grand and all he did was send a couple of E-mails, since then I have been through it a least 12 times for different Items--Re Read my post above--NOTHING will Happen to you

jbluntz · #29 06-19-2010

Now that's what I'm talking about!!! Slapped knows his stuff!!! I like that ****!!!

optioner · #30 06-19-2010

@ Slapped

GreenBean · #31 06-19-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffweico

Just a quick idea...

It seems to me that a lot of people could be spared a lot of grief if there was a post in the Subsrcibers FAQ area that listed products to avoid like the plague!

Rosetta Stone, X90, Insanity, etc.

Just a thought...

dont sell VeRo covers everything. No list is being made. The forum does not condone selling phakes.
Ya'll know it. Ya'll push boundaries

Here's a little waffle about
it http://www.aspkin.com/forums/subscri...ner-items.html

Use the SEARCH function & find 50 mentions...none of which are favorable to the selling of insanity.

#32 06-19-2010

My general advice in support of post #31:

For those who do not have experience keeping VeRO under the radar, leave it alone. If you don't already know exactly what to do and if you haven't got the nadz to stand up to the eventual accusations, OH WELL.

Advice to the OP: Make no comment to anyone. Not parents, not manufacturer. Neither confirm or deny. If your parents rat you out, it's no big deal. Unless they have proof you were in possession, they can be challenged as witnesses. If they make statements against you, they deserve to be publicly smeared. If my dad ever took sides specifically against me, he'd be needing a new pair of knee joints. So tell your 'rents to zip it shut.

To everyone, the OP is the best example of why I always tell people NOT to use any info that belongs to somebody who knows you. Even the ones who consent will revoke that consent if they get scary letters from the big bad shyster.

I have no sympathy, but I do hope you get your business worked out, Fizzy Vimto.

Fizzy_Vimto · #33 06-20-2010

ok, i also asked an actual solicitor what to do and he said even though contact had already been made, that i should ignore the letter and make no contact.

One last question which i didn't really ask in the begining is:

If i do ignore the letter and not phone back as i probably wont bother now. it says if i do not respond within 5 days that i have ceased distribution then the case will be handed to the appropriate authorities. Even though the solicitor advised me it would cost more to take me to court than it's worth for the amount i sold, with them handing it over to the police is it not then a criminal matter and i could be taken to court by them?

I think all they are really asking for is information on where i got the items from and a letter to say i have ceased selling. perhaps if i just send an email to that effect, that would be the end of the matter?

GreenBean · #34 06-20-2010

Do NOTHING. Say NOTHING and more importantly COMMUNICATE nothing even by email.

Do the oldies know the solicitor? Is he a friend? At the least he could tell your oldies it's nothing to be concerned about given your actions now.

Fizzy_Vimto · #35 06-20-2010

I went on a legal website and paid roughly £10 for an answer to my question, he was fully qualified with a masters in law and 5 years practising, he had 132, 100% positive feedback for helping others so i guess it's pretty accurate advice he's given me!!

#36 06-20-2010

The 'proper authories' does not necessarily mean the police. If they do in fact pursue this as a civil matter, it is not criminal - therefore, no police. If they pursue it as a criminal allegation, you would be charged criminally, possibly a letter in the mail from the magistrate's clerk instead of a visit from the men with the chrome bracelets.

Ask yourself: does the overburdened criminal justice system have the time to even blink at something like this? Would they be likely to expend ANY resources pursuing a case? Would they be inclined to not even open a case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzy_Vimto

ok, i also asked an actual solicitor what to do and he said even though contact had already been made, that i should ignore the letter and make no contact.

One last question which i didn't really ask in the begining is:

If i do ignore the letter and not phone back as i probably wont bother now. it says if i do not respond within 5 days that i have ceased distribution then the case will be handed to the appropriate authorities. Even though the solicitor advised me it would cost more to take me to court than it's worth for the amount i sold, with them handing it over to the police is it not then a criminal matter and i could be taken to court by them?

I think all they are really asking for is information on where i got the items from and a letter to say i have ceased selling. perhaps if i just send an email to that effect, that would be the end of the matter?

oompaloompa · #37 06-20-2010

so even though a solicitor and all of us have said dont contact them, you are still asking whether you should email them and give them some info, because that might be the end of the matter????

ok, Ive changed my mind - you and your parents deserve each other, seems that in terms of intelligence the apple doesnt fall far from the tree...

Fizzy_Vimto · #38 06-20-2010

Yes i know, no need to be so rude. I have recently just graduated from university with an LLB in law and even though yes, ignoring the letters seems to be the way forward, it certainly is not impossible that they could pursue the matter further. As for apple not falling far from the tree. Both my parents and step-father are university educated with graduate, high paying jobs, so you can see their concern....

#39 06-20-2010

I don't see their concern, if they are educated enough to comprehend strategy and psychology. The communication you received is nothing more serious than a spooky campfire story. Booga Wooga, I say.

If you have background education in law, you already know the answer. You are nervous about the voices in your head. Turn up the volume of your HiFi.

If you acknowledge the contact by sending any reply, you imply culpability.

I think that should be sufficient to let this thread rest. Not much else can be achieved. The only possible further posting would be needless discussion.

slapped · #40 06-20-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzy_Vimto

....Yes i know, no need to be so rude. I have recently just graduated from university with an LLB in law.....

I Can't tell

If that were the Case, that you have an LLB in law, then you would KNOW that you cannot Awnser them.

You KNOW that if you Provide them with your Supplier's Contact information, the rest of your Unsold inventory, and everything else they ask for Then you KNOW that you just Provided them with ALL THE EVIDENCE to GUARANTEE a CONVICTION against both YOU and your SUPPLIER.

By providing the requested material you will take a Case that has NO CHANCE of EVER getting into the court system, to a Case that is GUARANTEED to get BOTH, Into the Court System and CONVICTIONS all around.

Go Ahead and Contact them, give what they want, you KNOW what will happen.

MtnDew · #41 06-21-2010

Fizzy best thing to do is say nothing nothing at all!!!! Case closed dont send any email or letter or....anything!

IMO they were not being rude above but that said a few here have no sympathy for us "counterfeiters" lol they never ever ever never sold it to get started they have all 100% genuine goods and always have. thats why they are here they got "suspended" for selling genuine.

forummember · #42 06-21-2010

I've had one of these recently. Basically I gather they want you to sign what is called an undertakings, make sure you do not sign anything. They will need a court order to start looking through your eBay and PayPal. This is a long and lengthy process which they wont bother with. Do they ask you in anyway to cover any costs of the letter etc?

forummember · #43 06-21-2010

If you have replied admitting more or less to selling infringing products regardless of ignorance (which doesn't excuse you in this case) then stop communicating from now on. Do not sign anything, most of these letters come with an 'undertakings' which is a contract which is worded in a way to make it sound that your just signing to say you wont sell again however they can land costs on you, pursue the case further (because of your admittance) on to the appropriate law enforcements.

Chances are they don't have any of the products that you sold, so in the eyes of the law you haven't committed an offense because there is no evidence of the items which they claim to be infringing products. They send out these letters in mass amounts, usually to those registered as business sellers on eBay because their address, email and telephone number can be found under 'contact details' and then will send them out accordingly. Sometimes it can be months after your item was pulled off. At the end of the day all you have to remember is these three things:
1. Do NOT admit to anything, if need be write on the envelope 'Not Known At This Address' and put it back in the postbox.
2. Never SIGN anything, this can cause a lot of problems and you are basically leading yourself open to all sorts of issues.
3. Check out the people you sold the items to, a simple Google search will do and after their name put things like 'trading standards', 'the companies name' etc. and see if they have ever bought one of the items off of you.

Hercules · #44 06-21-2010

Proof. Even if they bought from you and used that as proof that won't work. I could buy a f@ke anywhere and say the seller sold it to me all day long. Proof means they come to your house and find it there or in your car. That's the cops I'm saying, not some cheesy lawyer or a rosetta stone employee. If you keep selling on that account they have to trace you to your supply and connect the two in physical form. Even if you admit to it they have to have proof. I can go to the police station and say I sell crack and they won't bust me until they find dope on me.