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Paypal can find out who you are even in Stealth
 

I have just lost 5 X stealth accounts with paypal.

The reason: They searched my credit file based on the bank account details used.

They linked 5 X stealth PP accounts to me and shut them down. They sent me an email to tell me they had done this

So it seems they can search your credit file based on your bank account details alone. I am annoyed at the moment and considering what to do.

Maybe need a bank account in a friends name.

What a royal pain in the ass this is.

Also they seem to wait until I have a healthy balance in the PP account before they limit it.

for goodness sake, please tell me this is not life...

ya how this happening...not good not good at all!!!!

im no expert on credit checks but i would think they would need your name first and then trace it that way...but who knows...jeez

Cross reference iwht your bank account details?

It is possible if Paypal does a deposit to your bank and asks for receipt....if your bank is dumb enough to provide name for the receipt then...i can see it.

Dont know a ton about the UK though - shrug. But man, rough to hear - someone at Paypal, and i'm guessing i know what kind of personnel, might have been smart to start analyzing

ya maybe a uk thing or something or could be that one bank nice thinking rsot...idk but damn damn god damn the pusher man (ebay)

WOW thats not good :(

Wonder what the legalities of this are, in the UK whenever you apply for any kind of credit you have to give the company your permission to perform a credit check, I dont recall any such terms in paypals TOS??

Dont know how you would challenge it though probably under data protection I presume though probably not worth it under the circumstances :(

Bar stewards!!!!!!!!!!

You could have a look at a prepaid account I suppose such as secure trust or card one is it? Being prepaid Im sure these will probably not share info with credit reference agencies.

Or get your partner to open a few in their name maybe?

You must be gutted my sympathies are with you ;)

Have you ever tried prepaid cards? This is kind of wierd maybe they are linking if the same or similar products are being sold. I'm thinking maybe a prepaid card would work because they only collect your information it's not on your credit report.

When I deposit cash or cks in my bank there is no name on the receipt. Maybe they linked you some other way but they don't want to give it up.

Plus I don't think credit reports put bank #s or names in there. Don't you have to have someones SS# to get it a report?

First of all, crap.:rolleyes:

Right, where these stealth accounts made before or after your last problem?
Secondly, was the one bank involved? By that I mean one sort code & different account numbers.
Thirdly, have you checked your own credit file as of yesterday or today?

I dont doubt you are annoyed. But I'm anxious to have more info of the circumstances. It's too generalized at the moment for me:peace:

Not in the UK we dont use our ssn (our equivelant would be national insurance number I think??) on any kind of credit just for certain savings accounts that are linked to our income tax system (ISA) and for anything to do with our gret (NOT) Inland revenue...............................

Not sure about bank account number on credit reports though I know the bank lists their name on their I should imagine account numbers would be listed not 100% on that though?

Are you sure this is the way they got you? Seems a bit "dodgy" to me as said in my previous post in the UK you have to give your permission for any organisation to credit check you and I do not recall any such things mentioned in paypal TOS............

Agree with GreenBean on this one more info would be great :)

ALso if it is this way then the prepaid account from cardone or in the UK secure trust bank may be a valid option, with them being "guaranteed" they do not even perform a credit check so the chances of them sharing info with credit reference agencies would be slim.

On a side note has anyone used these kind of accounts for paypal verification ?

I hope this aint the case. Not as i'm just starting.

I'll start selling on a new stealth account on monday hopefully so if anything like this happens i will let you guys know.

Hey get this: Got this email from Paypal:

Dear Neo,

As part of our security measures, we regularly screen activity in the
PayPal system. While going over your account, it has come to our
attention you have another PayPal account with the email address:
@gmail.com. This other account was negative $1,404.97. Because there was
indisputable evidence the other account and this account were owned by
the same person, we have moved the $565.59 from your @gmail.com to
resolve part of the balance on the other account.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok so I assumed this money was now gone from Paypal. Had this on aother Paypal account and the balance had been transfered out.

Anyway I check 3 days ago and the full balance is in Paypal and I get this email.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your PayPal funds are now eligible for withdrawal.

To withdraw funds from your account, please log in to PayPal.
As a reminder, access to your account will remain limited until you perform the steps required to lift the limitation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I log in and transfer out the money! £565.69.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go figure! They tell me they took it and its still there.

Silver lining.

Sounds like a phishing email. I recently got hacked into three of my gmail accounts with a cluster of ⊗⊗⊗⊗ PP/ebay emails asking me questions! Don't log in through that email!

Plus from last I heard google doesn't give any info on the (owner) of a gmail acc. if there is such a thing. All they have is what you put down when you made it. Gmail knows where and when it was made. But I saw a show where AOL openly gives up info to the authorities with a court order. But it's got to be big.

This letter DOES NOT state how they linked your accounts, to be sure you should go Over your banks "Privacy Statement" THOROUGHLY.

As for a Scam, I do Not think so, I simply think that One of Paypals Departments ordered the withdrawal, and the department responsible for Actually making the withdrawal did Not get around to it yet, You Simply "Beat them to it" this However Does NOT Mean that Paypal will Not Reverse the Transaction, If I were you the Second that the Money Hits the Bank Account I would Withdraw it, until you sort this whole thing out, ---Keep us Posted---

how can they take from one account to cover another delinquent account without proof they are truely linked? And i'm referring to Neo's thread.

How AND why are 'we' trying to interpret what happened with not enough info?

Until Neo gives more info I am waiting

this could be like the My dog is named Spot story :yar: Not enough facts known will lead to misunderstanding:peace:

You mention a healthy PayPal balance; wouldn't this be reason to always transfer balances over $200 into your checking account? Can PayPal get to your funds when it has already transferred into your checking?

Ok to clarify the facts.

I checked my credit file as I do every so often.

I noted that within a two week period Paypal had searched my credit file 6 times. The details were shown of the 6 different searches.

Then what happened was my Paypal accounts stated to die. In that I mean that the good ones that were running got limited. When I rang up all innocent to say "what happened" the rep told me I was linked to other limited Paypal accounts.

All of these accounts are stealth - different name - different address.

The one problem there is no way to get around is the fact that any bank account you take out will always lead back to your credit file. I did think of applying for an account and switching round a digit in my NI number in the hope that this might keep a new account out.

So then the old stealth accounts that I had money in, i started to get the replies abve. They are genuine Paypal emails and not spoof as the money was taken out of my Paypal accounts. It was just one they said they did this and left the money in for withdrawel.

Basically they have searched me based on my bank accounts and would not have used any real details to go with this search as there were none there.

So now I think "ok they did 6 searches, which account were they?" "Which other ones are waiting for the axe to fall.

Basically I am in the **** with this one and am trying to figure out a way round this.

Hope this clarifies.

Also this is all fact. I have studied and thought about this in depth.

This seems to be plausable, however the only information I can locate on it seems to apply to business paypal account rather than individual accounts.

An interesting read..............

I Know that things work a Little differently in the UK, So as I Try to Understand your Situation in the Hope of Comming up with a Potential Workaround, Please Forgive any Ignorance that I Might Display in understanding this Situation.

The First thing I Would Like to Know is What Led Paypal to Search YOUR Credit file?



So are you saying here that all Paypal Needs to do is request some type of "Credit Rating" on the Owner of a Bank Account attached to a Paypal account and the awnser will lead Paypal directly to YOUR Credit File, Because of course you had to open the Bank account initially?



Also are you Saying that the 6 different Inquires into your Credit file made by Paypal Originated from 6 Different stealth accounts?

So unless we are missing something important here, paypal with nothing more than bank account number found out who you are?

From my understanding on any paypal account, real or stealth, paypal cant just get your info from the bank...

So with basically just one piece of info that mattered, your account number, they were able to do a credit report that returned information on who you are??

All of the bank account numbers were different, correct? And all 6 completely separate bank accounts all lead back to your real credit report?

And to repeat - ALL they needed was a bank account number? Nothing more? How can that be enough?

This is bat **** scary

.

I think its illegal in america for banks to give out any personl info to paypal or anyone. Even if paypal was to get info only thing they could get is your name which they cant link just by that. theres no way they could get your ssn legaly any ways.

I think he's saying they did a credit check on his real info account and found accounts that were attatched to stealth accounts.

So you are thinking his downfall was put in motion by having a REAL account amongst the rest? Had all 6 been stealth we would not be having this conversation?
But I still cant understand how they can run a credit check, with a bank account number and bogus names. Credit check should not have shown who he is by account number alone, no?

If you have a real info paypal account and they run a credit check and they see the other bank accounts you have in your real details then they can search their database to see if those other accounts are being used with other paypal accounts. Naturally if they run a credit check on a stealth account nothing will show up. I think they only do that on business accounts with lot's of volume.

Neo,

I'm a financial expert and trade on the CityIndex, so listen to me. This is not possible or legal.

Firstly, any company needs your consent to register a search on your credit files. Was this Experian, Equifax or CallCredit you were looking at? I recommend you contact them to investigate and have the searches removed then contact the Financial Ombudsman Service about this - PayPal as they are not a member of the FSA have to pay $500 just to represent any case you bring to them, so it is easier for them and more likely that they will just give in. I can tell you these companies and the laws they follow are not any different to that in the US.

Second, if you look closely at your credit accounts on your credit file, if and where it shows your account number (it doesn't always) under the Data Protection Act you will never see the whole account number, only see the last four digits of the account number if that, e.g. XXXX5344

If that's not enough, credit reports cannot be searched by account number, only by personal or business identity.

If your theory is that they have run these account numbers of yours through a CRA and arrived at your identity on your credit reports then you are incorrect. You have been linked by another method. Had PayPal achieved this, they would have breached 3 Acts under civil law and be liable to be fined many millions.

Okay, that's all from me.

Account numbers are not even a criteria that the credit bureaus accept for input (when running a credit report). Name, address, SSN, DOB - that's it.

The UK, however, may be different.

The one thing I could think of is:

If credit reports in the UK show bank account information (I have NEVER seen this in the US, and I have read THOUSANDS of credit reports over the last 13 years) then when he opened the account, the bank would report his account number to the credit bureau. If PayPal ran a credit report and found that he banks at Barclays and his checking account number is 123456789, then PayPal could look at THEIR OWN data and match the account number and bank name to the bogus account. But this is a longshot.

I was told by a Trans-Union rep a couple of years ago that they were trying to get legislation passed that would allow the bureaus to list bank account information to help businesses comply with the Patriot Act, but I don't think anything ever came of it. Since a checking account is, by definition, not an extension of credit it could only be reported as a writeoff if it was in default.

My theory above is just a THEORY. I know that UK banking law is stricter than US law, so maybe they have this?

When you view your credit report the information that you have regarding what information a company like Paypal had to search your credit file is very slim.

All you see is that they did in fact search the credit file.

The 6 searches have been performed and I am saying that I created more than 6 totally independant stealth accounts with different names and addresses,

I have found out from callin them and the emails I have received that they have linked all these accounts which are now limited plus I am on ternderhooks thinking when the others are going to fall.

To perform so many searches they would have access to all my bank account and credit card details. Not the full numbers but the last 4 digits.

I thought it was odd that they could search based on the bank account and credit card number, but they have no real address to use for the basis of a search only the stealth addresses.

I'm a financial expert and trade on the CityIndex, so listen to me.

That statement right there says it all lol, you could live an entire life off of that statement alone lol.

Have separate user accounts - usually change IP when using each ebay - and paypal account.

Stealth details are totally different including name.

On what other basis could they perform so many searches?

ffs, do me a favour and answer the questions in my 1st post in the thread. You're being slippery. :peace:

'Just' means what...4 days ago, 4 weeks ago OR longer.

But not always?


Typematic rate, voiceprinting (if you've talked to them on the phone), spies, snitches, exif tags, syntax analysis... ad nauseum.

to clarify a few questions - what prompted this search was a delinquent paypal account in real details from years back. As we know all bank accounts and cards are taken out in our own real details, so what OP is saying is therefore if you input a real name/dob etc, you will come up with a list of bank accs and card, just last few digits but thats all you need to link it all up.
Paypal probably wont do a search like this unless you run away from substantial fees..money thats the bottom line

Right, so you've had 6 searches on your credit report by paypal. Banks and other financial institutions that know what they're doing search and register correctly, not least because they are regulated to do so. To put it bluntly, idiot companies like paypal have idiots working for them who don't so much know what they're doing and make mistakes like this because they don't know how to search and register properly and efficiently. I'll bet some of these searches were in a very short space of time, some even perhaps on the same day. This is the result of untrained idiots at paypal who don't know what they're doing.

You're now thinking that they've pulled your credit reports 6 times and cross referenced with the last 4 digits of the accounts? This is nonsense, the number of accounts with the same last 4 digits outnumbers just yours by a long way, they would quickly run out of unique account numbers to link and everybody who entered an account would be linked. They couldn't even do it if they had the entire account number, without the routing number the number of accounts still outnumber, and credit reports do not reveal the routing number.

In the US credit reports are searched by SSN, in the UK it's by electoral register.

I've spoken to fraud investigators and heads of fraud departments at all the major banks alike time and time again to glean some first rate information. You don't even need to mention paypal to them, there is rarely a day that goes by for any of them where there is not some fraud with paypal involved. Nearly always, paypal will be out of pocket on this. Due to this, as we've all experienced paypal's fraud screening gets ever more stringent, and with that in mind I'm sure paypal has some elaborate and convoluted methods of linking accounts that have not been mentioned or possibly even thought about by anyone on these forums. This is probably what linked your accounts

As I say follow the steps I outlined before, request an investigation by Equifax, Experian or CallCredit, whichever CRA it was, then take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service. They take their time because they're buried with work, and favour some scenarios over others, but they HATE paypal, and like I said before paypal will usually give in right away to them. It costs you nothing, and it's unlikely that without a court order paypal would choose or be forced to reveal the commercial basis behind the workings of their decision to link your accounts, but it'll resolve your problems.