Forum

re: address
 

Have a couple questions about address issue.

I'm not clear why the address has to be different to the one associated with suspended account?

My thoughts are:
People move and relocate all the time. Therefore, if its a different name and different IP, at said address, why or how could ebay/pp justify terminating an account merely based on the coincidence of an address matching with someone else who previously lived there and was suspended? That would be penalizing people merely for moving to a certain address, for misdemeanors of other people who lived there previoiusly; surely, that would not be justifiable or reasonable?

Secondly, our IP identify where we live to the street name locality by several meters accuracy. If however, the address we provide is kilometers apart; will that discrepancy not be far more likely to flag up? That would to my own logic be far more reasonable to draw suspicion than the above scenario of the coincidence of someone creating an account where previously someone else had been suspended.

In the guide an example is given of someone being registered in USA but their IP showing them to be in China. That's an obvious incongruence as far as ebay/pp are concerned. Understandably, so. Although, as an aside, don't people have the right to be registered in one place and be operating from another. Do people not travel and do business? In any case i can see why they might become suspicious in that case and be justified to want to call and verify that it is indeed 'them' but just operating from another country (at the moment).

I'm suggesting, or asking, why the same principle doesn't apply if the address is kilometers away from what the IP is indicating? How do they reconcile the discrepancy of an address not matching the IP?

I do have a friend who's address I may, possibly be able to use. However, I do feel reticent asking and would do so only as a last have-to measure. I'd much rather use my own address, which would also make the IP matching straightforward - or congruent.

What are the other possible alternatives, specific to the UK? I've heard about buying PO boxes. If someone could share their positive experience of that? Sounds like yet another expense which ideally I'd do without.

Also anyone use LLC ?

Your answers much appreciated, indeed


-livingdaylight

Re: address
 

do not use you friends address, no need.

you could go for a P.O. box and business account, then it is all yours.

no need for company creation, only useful if you happen to already have one for business reasons.

just make sure your details are different from your banned ones. Ip is easier to do, most
ip is dynamic, but get a new ISP if unsure.

possibly sometimes, you can use the same surname, if all other details different, or you can use a variation of your name. If unsure post your plan here and we will pick at it...it can depend on if you have submitted id before too.

look at it objectively, any links to prior accs, eg. unique goods, cookies, flash, bank card, name, address, pic exif etc etc...

ip can vary, it can pinpoint your road and practically hover above you on the map, or shows your town, or a completely different town, or jump about...

Re: address
 

I've always known for IP to "hover above" as you put it, but, not necessarily so? I would have thought the radius of accuracy would be less than 100 miles as stated in the Stealth Guide. Rather within a mile or so.
In any case I hear that they are therefore obliged to give some allowance for mismatch of address and IP. The question for me remains how much?

As for PO Box, may I ask which you use or are aware of?

Royal Mail charge £244 /year
There are a few others.
MBE.co.uk £216 /year
British Monomarks at £90 / year
My-Uk-Mail £60 /year
They actually look interesting for other reasons too.

Also, the cheapest I've found so far. Nevertheless, its not an insignificant cost, when just starting out. More than what it used to, when I paid nothing!

Any other names and alternatives?

Still not sure why I can't be a different person at the same address. As I said, in my original question: people move out new people move in. They must account for that and can't incriminate people merely on association with an address with someone else?

As for PO Boxes does one in that case need to setup a new PO Box for each different stealth account? That really would add up.

Re: address
 

just looked at My UK Mail - Your Own UK Mailing Address, Better than a PO Box! Receive all types of mail at your own UK street address. mail forwarding service, uk mail forwarding service, Your mail is forwarded on to you, international mail forwarding, internation but monthly subs are £22.00 when u click
join now ,.... or £70 a year anyone else use them for documents scanning?

Re: address
 

eBay can link the accounts from the same address, and eBay could decide that its too much of a risk for them even though you seem to be a new person. That is why no information should match. They can close accounts because they feel like it, best way to avoid this is to give them no reason to feel like closing your account.

Creating a stealth does cost money, but it should be easily made back selling on eBay.

The police can track an IP address back to your exact location, eBay cannot. They get an approximate location, which can be off by a long way (mine at the moment is off by 6 miles, earlier today a different IP was off by 4 miles)

You can get mail rental boxes in the UK for less than £10 a month or so. Just do some research into it and you will find them.

Re: address
 

JamesNorth101 spot on!

Re: address
 

Thank you for further clarifying.
Yes, it does cost money, I'm finding out.

So, for each stealth account people are spending money on a dedicated po box?
Would one not run out of addresses?

Re: address
 

why dont you try with whatsmyip and see the map, it depends on the ISP and type of
connection, your home wifi can be very close, dongle can be 200 miles away, heck I had one years ago that showed up in the middle of the channel....

nobody is going to tell you which boxes they use, depending on their rules, there are ways of making 3 addresses out of 1 pobox, one with real name and address, one with business name and address, one with variation of business name or real name , pobox number and address

using a different person at same address is risky, but maybe if you start as a buying acc and fatten it up, you can then convert it to selling. I know of success with this, but I would say you would need to wait over a year from banishment, maybe best to use it as last resort down the line, when some time has passed.....

Re: address
 

Does LLC exist in UK or is it under different name? Just wondering

Re: address
 

Paypal are a financial organisation so naturally they have risk assessments.

Registering a new account at a banned address with another name will raise eyebrows, especially if its soon after an account got banned.

With IP addresses, Ebay and PP know that people use internet dongles or mobile internet to access their sites so are tolerant. They also appreciate people travel, but they also know peoples accounts get hijacked from overseas, especially from "red flag" countries like I'm in for example.

They think that if in doubt "prove it", limitation and document request.

Re: address
 

LLC exists in UK. Cheap to set up. (£15)

There is also Limited Liability Partnership.

I'm not knowledgeable in either to know the differences.

In the context Stealth account how would LLC come into play?
We can give our LLC any name? attach it to a PO Box?

If someone could flesh out the strategy and reasoning behind it, please?

Re: address
 

in USA they have ssn requirements and can use business id instead. not relevant for UK issues.

No need to set up a business, in fact counterproductive in some ways, as the directors are in public domain and can be looked up.

have you submitted id before?

Re: address
 

Submitted ID to PayPal?

I believe I would have done at some point during verification. So many years ago, I can't say for sure what I did provide.

Re: address
 

stealth can mean staying yourself but still not getting linked, so it matters what you provided in the past, if you gave them drivers licence before then you can submit your passport and utility bill/bank statement for a different address eg business one, on a future account.

Re: address
 

ebay bots may find discrepancies in spacing, but they do not detect non-existant addresses on a real street - fact. A manual review may detect this
though, but if you have received tracked goods to this address it is seen as a real one, now this is tricky and not everyone knows how to or can manage it.

addresses can be fluid, havent you noticed not all addresses are on dropdown when mailing goods on your courier or other site? particularly business name or house name addresses change all the time and are not databased or up to date.

You just need to know how to do it, and it should not look too silly eg. flat 1, in office 2, in cupboard 3, in basement behind spidersweb, real rd, UK.

Re: address
 

I want to start 2 new stealth accounts so cant use my own address so what do i use?
will I need access to it ?
can I use a mates address with my own bank account and a stealth name?
or is that not necessary? :confused:
I will need a new mobile number so is it best to get a giffgaff sim and a cheap phone?

Re: address
 

Have a look at rentable mail boxes.

Really best to avoid using friends or relatives info. It can just lead to issues later on sometimes.

A new sim card will do the job nicely. I use Vodafone myself.

Re: address
 

so ebay and paypal except mailboxes?

Re: address
 

they do for business accs. better to put office or suite than P.O.Box

Re: address
 

Was going to go ahead with My Uk Mail but found out that they only provide address for Basingstoke.
I need an address in London.
Anyone know/recommend the cheapest po box service?
I've found £12/month but that feels pricey to me.

Re: address
 

£12 a month is a decent price.

Why does it need to be a London address?

Re: address
 

Because, I'm in London, and want the address to be in range of the IP.

British Monomarks = £90/year
Will call them tomorrow.

If anyone knows any other alternative, please, let me know

Re: address
 

No real need for this.

So long as its a UK IP you will be fine with an address anywhere in the the UK.

My IP rarely shows as local to me

Re: address
 

I'd be curious to know where you live.
I'm in London and my IP is always hovering right over my address. If it points to a couple miles down the road fine; but, Basingstoke, half-way down the M3? hrmm... then we're in the suspicion-raising scenario of someone registered in NY showing up in China, principle.

At least that's what I'd fear. But, then what do I know. I am noob to this. Perhaps, too eager to get it right.

But, if there are two postal addresses one near me and another far away I'd choose the one nearer. It's just that in this case nearer means £30 more, unless I find something cheaper than £90/year.

Re: address
 

Your 'virtual' address can be anywhere in the UK, IP location makes no difference as long as it is also in the UK.

It can be hundreds of miles away and will not cause any issues.

Re: address
 

Agree with NoneOther - Just needs to be UK IP, not a local IP.

Re: address
 

Thank you, NoneOther & JamesNorth101
That surprises me, but I trust you are talking from experience so, thank you for confirming this assertion.

Re: address
 

But going back to the earlier question you raised livingdaylight, i do know of a postal rental for £15 a year (has its limited but its workable with a stealth account) which gives a London (inner) address.

So they can be found if you do a good search!

Re: address
 

Stop teasing me then. :pry:
£15 would be so much better than what everyone else is charging

I did a good google search and found the sites I mentioned are the only one's I've found.

Re: address
 

Good useable virtual addresses are very hard to come by.

It requires lots of research and leg work (literally) to find them hence the reason people are so guarded about the ones they use.

It's not the sort of information that is shared freely, a good address is worth it's weight in gold for building a long term stealth account.

Keep searching and you will come up with the right thing. Once you know exactly what to look for finding others is much easier.

Re: address
 

I'm confused :confused:
Why is there a scarcity? Companies advertising mail addresses would welcome more business.
So, we're not talking of companies advertising mail boxes then? I'm told to search and I'll find it, but, seems I'm looking in the wrong place, if these people are not visible after a google search.

Re: address
 

Not really a scarcity, just that good usable ones were harder to come by but there are lots of them around if you know what to look for.

Companies that advertise their services widely may have been used on e/b before and the address been banned.

Google does not have all the answers, it only shows you what it's being paid to advertise. There are many places that offer this type of service but do not advertise it on Google.

Try walking around your local area, you'll be amazed at what you can find.

Re: address
 

There is information that is readily shared and that which will remain guarded because probably the single most important key to success with stealth is having good clean addresses to link to your accounts.

If you are going to make a real success of stealth you really need to learn to think through problems yourself by using some lateral thinking.

Look and search for information from a different perspective not just the obvious.

Re: address
 

It makes a mockery of the guide and the entire raison d'etre as far as I'm concerned, this cloak and daggers game.

One come to a forum like this or pay for a guide in order to simply be told the 'obvious' On the contrary its to find out what we don't know. If then we have to work it out for ourselves, well... makes no sense to me.


As for thinking the problem through. If I may ask this question, as I don't know anymore what is in the realm of the public and what is secretly and jealously guarded anymore:

How safe are po boxes and virtual addresses, which the guide recommends, still, to use?

I have to assume that PP have come on all these forums and studied every stealth guide in print out there and therefore know how these things work. This is how the game of cat and mouse continually evolves, no?

I imagine that they may have a list of all the po box and virtual addresses out there. So, next time someone declares one of these addresses that would immediately raise a flag of suspicion. If I was running PP that's certainly what I'd do if I was serious about stamping out stealth accounts and maintaining control of the integrity of my company.

As of today the guide does "officially" (still) recommend using po boxes, but, can't help wondering now, whether that's what people are doing in the real world, given that there are alternatives which are clearly being jealously guarded. I can see that this is a king-pin issue.

Re: address
 

The Stealth Guide is just that a guide.

Most things you don't know can be found in the posts on this forum.

Not all information will be shared just because you ask for it. As you say many people read these pages and not all of them are stealthers.

There are reasons why some things are closely guarded by individuals, they have worked hard to find the right options and as you rightly point out sharing those in the public domain quickly makes them unusable.

As the saying goes....."Too many cooks etc.

Re: address
 

The guide is just a guide. It outline how to remain link free.

Its not going to link you to all the rentable mail boxes in the because as soon as it does that none of them will be any use, just like its not going to tell you what to sell, because that item would instantly become unprofitable.

Bare in mind that the guide was written a few years ago, whereas the forum is very current and has all the latest information.

Stealthing does take time to learn, and finding all the best ways to do it takes a lot of research and trial and error. The more time you put in the more you will get out.

Re: address
 

Well, in that case then, I regret purchasing the guide, in the sense that the rough outlines are freely available and logical if one thinks about it. The devil is in the detail and Its the details that matter, and that's what I thought I was buying it for. Esp.also, If whatever updated and relevant information people were willing to share they would do in the forums.

I did notice in the guide that a lot of the information was outdated, but nevertheless it does list banks and cards etc -i.e. which services to use. Why would it render it useless to list these things? The guide may be outdated now you say, but when it was written it was fresh and with all those current recommendations in place, without thinking it would render them useless in the process by listing them

Would listing which po box to use, render it useless for the reason that I mentioned, could be the case? Because PP spies could add them to their list to flag when they come up on applications?

Re: address
 

Banks and cards are generally easier to get and use within a stealth set up, addresses however are not.

As you very rightly point out everything regarding the stealth guidelines is fairly logical and obvious when it's actually pointed out to you in black and white but not many people are able to bring all the elements together themselves at first by merely thinking about it, hence the guide puts people on the right path.

The most successful stealthers are those that can stay ahead of the game as it changes by finding solutions to their own problems, some of which they may or may not share.

Re: address
 

I See!

:ninja:

Re: address
 

Just FYI to those reading do not use the same addresses on lots of stealth account. They will eventually go down like dominoes. Mailboxes are still a very good method. PO boxes on the other hand should be avoided, as has been the case for a fair while.