4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked

[mshamazon]

On a similar train of thought, I've considered the inconsistency of Amazon's linking quite a bit and came to a little bit of a realization that has slightly modified the way I view it.

As most of you would probably assume, Amazon's linking system probably works almost EXACTLY like a spam catching algorithm. I bet it uses a points system that adds points based on several risk factors and several linking factors. Similar to your own email filter, they probably turn the 'spam filter' of sorts to "high" before the holidays and appear to really 'crack down' on small sellers with VERO notices and just general shaking up so the strong (legit) ones stay.

With that said, I bet these are risk factors (and my estimate of their respective scores):
1) IP address SOURCE. Almost every cell phone/dongle/VPN/VPS/proxy/residential service etc has an IP address that is registered to a data center of some sort. While there are certainly some legitimate reasons an account may have an ip from a non-residential datacenter (just like some people probably have legitimate reasons to receive emails about their erectile dysfunction and spam shouldn't filter it... lol). But because all it takes is an AUTOMATIC whois search, I bet Amazon has the dns registration in their system locally so they KNOW when we are using anything that is not a Residential IP. My guess:
-10/10 risk for same IP as previously suspended individual
-9/10 for tor browser or hide my ass or other idiot obvious services
-7/10 for basic proxies that come from common IP pools but are purchased (so they're less common)
-4/10 for a good VPN/VPS from a low key data center
-2/10 for an account that only accesses via a mobile IP address (assigned by Verizon, Sprint etc) - because you're using a mobile IP and NEVER requesting the mobile version of the site (in other words, it isn't a temporary tether and they never see you log in from any other IP but a phone... I bet they see that as at least a SMALL factor)


2) Phone number SOURCE (can be tracked by public registration databases as well so they know where the number was sourced from)
-10/10 risk for apps that have databases of phone numbers Amazon can easily access
-8/10 for google voice or free throw away numbers
-6/10 for bandwidth.com numbers (fly number, sometimes google voice)
-4 or 5/10 for paid VOIP registrations (vonage ONSIP or something)
-2 or 3/10 for prepaid phone registrations (number is registered to tracfone etc)


3) Inventory similarity
-10/10 every item same
etc etc etcc

The reason I think they are doing this is primarily the following: It's what I would do if I were in charge lol and it's really not hard to implement. So I think instead of us saying an idea or service is "approved" it's more like "it's less risky" or "it's more risky, so if you have other high risk factors, you might get tagged".

Interesting thought anyway.

[imboxsy]

great post. I'm starting to turn against phone forwarding sites since they are basically abused and reused over and over. I think tracfones are a must imo

[imboxsy]

i wonder if the VM software glitched or something. Where it didn't end the session of one of your stealth's and you had cookies and whatnot carry over to the session you thought you were in.

Also, i think you can disregard timing. I have 3 AMZ accounts in shipstation that refresh at the same time automatically dozens of times a day.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by imboxsy

i wonder if the VM software glitched or something. Where it didn't end the session of one of your stealth's and you had cookies and whatnot carry over to the session you thought you were in.

Also, i think you can disregard timing. I have 3 AMZ accounts in shipstation that refresh at the same time automatically dozens of times a day.

Interesting idea about VM

[TonyAlmeida]

Originally Posted by imboxsy

i wonder if the VM software glitched or something. Where it didn't end the session of one of your stealth's and you had cookies and whatnot carry over to the session you thought you were in.

Also, i think you can disregard timing. I have 3 AMZ accounts in shipstation that refresh at the same time automatically dozens of times a day.

Which VMware, all the image are totally different (like different pc) and you can run more than 1 at the same time with no problem.

[TonyAlmeida]

I do respond via gmail, but it uses smtp for the outlook ones and gmail's server is the same for ALL email accounts so it isn't linking through that

Respond via gmail.com is safe and everyone know that. But I'm not sure it's the same for using outlook with their smtp server.

Also, do you have all your email account (outlook and gmail) setup in the same outlook?

* the outlook you refer above is the Outlook app in the Microsoft Office and not outlook.com right?

[amazonp]

@mshamazon you are great you make money even in student. let's find how amazon detect this and how well amazon develop this skill.

[mshamazon]

Originally Posted by TonyAlmeida

Which VMware, all the image are totally different (like different pc) and you can run more than 1 at the same time with no problem.

Originally Posted by TonyAlmeida

Respond via gmail.com is safe and everyone know that. But I'm not sure it's the same for using outlook with their smtp server.

Also, do you have all your email account (outlook and gmail) setup in the same outlook?

* the outlook you refer above is the Outlook app in the Microsoft Office and not outlook.com right?

As TonyAlmeida said, VM Ware machines are kept entirely separate so if there was data corruption, it wouldn't be in the form of bleeding through virtual machines - it would be in the form of BSOD lol.

I actually use a single gmail account to manage all of the accounts. Therefore, sending with gmail, the smtp server is the same from every account (the receiving server does not see any distinction between servers just because it's a different email addresses since they're both from gmail). The only accounts that are not gmail are outlook.com accounts (I figure they're less often used for stealth, and they provide free mail forwarding along with smtp login - might as well switch things up just in case).

From the receiving end of an email, you can only see the receiving server (outlook.com), the data in the headers (to my knowledge) contains no information of the original source as that would be a huge security risk. For example, if I use my local computer to send mail through smtp, there's no way someone would be able to look at the headers to determine the actual IP address of my computer as that is a security issue (you could get someone's true IP just by receiving an email from them).

The only thing that is POSSIBLE (although probably pointless), is that gmail or outlook.com could use a different sending server when you use smtp vs logging in directly. But that still can't trace back - all it could do is tell Amazon that you're sending from something that's logging into the server instead of using a web browser. Again, IMO this is unlikely and a non-issue.

Thanks @amazonp. Sorry for the late reply btw, I just saw this email (final exams this week and next so my life has been crazy).

My accounts are running strong and I have not had any issues since. I am sending separate messages and have modified some of my software to randomize interactions just in case they are pattern checking somehow (will do more over christmas break). Could have just been a really lucky catch for them all along (based on a point system and somewhere I bumped over the limit).

[TonyAlmeida]

Are you respond to buyer question from gmail.com or using Outlook software from Microsoft?

[mshamazon]

Originally Posted by TonyAlmeida

Are you respond to buyer question from gmail.com or using Outlook software from Microsoft?

From gmail.com's web browsing application. Sorry if I was unclear.

[Omgoozle]

When your software processes your orders - are the commands coming from different IPs for the different accounts?

Another thought is that, because you're shipping from the wrong address, maybe your shipping times aren't matching up with USPS's guaranteed delivery dates. USPS is trying very hard to meet their 1,2, and 3 day USPS Priority "deadlines" and I have a feeling they are being pushed to make this service guaranteed like USPS Express Mail. Maybe it's possible that your mismatched shipping times are prompting a manual review? Also - when I've done this in the past with USPS, if I follow the USPS tracking I will see the package get shipped back to it's "origin" point before continuing on. So if I'm shipping from Wyoming to California using a Maine-based virtual address, the parcel would ship from Wyoming to Maine before going on to California.

Maybe it's worth checking out.

[Omgoozle]

Originally Posted by mshamazon

From gmail.com's web browsing application. Sorry if I was unclear.

Have you disabled gmail's images so you're not bitten by web bugs?

[mshamazon]

Originally Posted by Omgoozle

Have you disabled gmail's images so you're not bitten by web bugs?

Gmail images do not matter anymore since they are all run through gmail servers and THEN downloaded through your ip address:
How Gmail’s Image Caching Affects Open Tracking | MailChimp Email Marketing Blog

In other words, gmail will see your ip address and Amazon/ebay/paypal will see gmail's servers (gmail hides you behind it).

Also, Amazon does not use beacons of any kind anyway (or didn't since the last time I looked at the source files of their emails).

[mshamazon]

Originally Posted by Omgoozle

When your software processes your orders - are the commands coming from different IPs for the different accounts?

Another thought is that, because you're shipping from the wrong address, maybe your shipping times aren't matching up with USPS's guaranteed delivery dates. USPS is trying very hard to meet their 1,2, and 3 day USPS Priority "deadlines" and I have a feeling they are being pushed to make this service guaranteed like USPS Express Mail. Maybe it's possible that your mismatched shipping times are prompting a manual review? Also - when I've done this in the past with USPS, if I follow the USPS tracking I will see the package get shipped back to it's "origin" point before continuing on. So if I'm shipping from Wyoming to California using a Maine-based virtual address, the parcel would ship from Wyoming to Maine before going on to California.

Maybe it's worth checking out.

The programs are run inside the virtual machines (which are covered in their entirety behind VPNs). Also, I wrote it so that it goes through the regular browser same as if you're using it normally (so it doesn't look like a program to Amazon other than the fact that it processes so quickly). It's like a really really complex macro (with a bunch of window control specific commands and url form fills etc).

Also, I noticed exactly what you mean. I now have something written that superimposes my actual address and return zip code onto the labels just before they're printed. I'm not sure if they're entering the zip code manually or if USPS has just caught on that people ship from various places, but it doesn't seem to do the loop around anymore. I haven't seen it in a couple months anyway.

All packages are delivered early (no lates). Most prominent thing on my feedback. So it's not a "timing" issue - if anything, Amazon could be smart enough to see that the "Ships From" zip code on Amazon doesn't match where USPS tracking shows it's coming from - that's the only thing I can think of related to shipping.

Food for thought, thanks!!! This is how we get better! lol

[amazonp]

Originally Posted by mshamazon

@123 - You are awesome, thank you for going through and reading the details of my mess of a post. The software IS one of the things I think could be a really advanced link. I designed it so that it acts just like a user in that all the request are sent through the browser. So the only differentiation Amazon has between a user and the software is 1) It's very fast, 2) It probably takes about the same amount of time every order (i.e. sign of a computer), and 3) The message contents are 80% the same from account to account. HOWEVER, they still vary within those accounts based on shipping speeds, delivery times, names etc

My thought is I can run it through a random seed within certain restraints (say, have each order take 2 to 5 seconds randomly), and I can have it send totally unique message templates for each and every account. The thing is, it's an order confirmation message and it's pretty short - there are 5 or 6 variations of it per account AND each variation has its own variables (Amazon's estimated delivery is between [ARR1]October 30th and [ARR2]November 10th, but I'm actually [SHIP TIME] "sending it first thing tomorrow morning" so your delivery is actually scheduled for [SCHEDULE]"THIS Monday" by USPS. I went ahead and [UPGRADE-Y/N]upgraded the shipping to [TYPE]"Second Day"... see where I'm going with that? Each variable has information that is replaced by the software. So it's definitely pretty varied, so idk - I guess I would just want to meet the engineer that programmed for that kind of similarity without also including THOUSANDS of other legit sellers in the mix lol

Also, good note about VMWare - I did a ton of research to figure out if you can show that you're in a virtual machine (you can't on the latest version of every major browser since it's a security risk because malware could stop misbehaving on virtual machine test machines). I also looked at full clones vs linked and whether or not the fact that the OS would have the same product key (and serial) would make a difference - but again, this is impossible to read server side due to the security risk. Literally they have access to fonts, screen resolution, cookies, java/flash giveaways (I don't have either installed in firefox anyway) - they can't tell a virtual machine. I don't like user accounts because I have 4 monitors and I keep my accounts open at once and work on school and stuff too - it would be a PITA to constantly switch user accounts to process orders.

If they can not get any info about OS and computer registry, why use VM? i guess it is just for easy to access account in same time right?
so i can just use more account on same pc without VM by just use different browser( i think most computer will have same font because many user do not setup any new font ?)
thanks.

[amazonp]

also, maybe your VPN disconnected for short time if you set it auto reconnect, you will not know this happen.

[mshamazon]

VM is for the following reasons, some of which can be done with other methods but are easiest accomplished this way:
1) Access all of the accounts at the same time
2) Create machines with different operating systems, browsers, fonts, plugins etc - create a "fingerprint" for each machine to reduce the amount of similarity (i.e. two accounts that sell really similar things in a similar manner will have a less chance of getting linked if they seem to be two completely legitimate systems with totally different setups and nothing technically connecting them)
3) VPN - On the off chance that a browser allows some type of plugin to leak the system IP address to Amazon/ebay (flash, java, html5 leak etc) vs the browser IP, they will match up perfectly since the entire system is under the VPN
4) My software can run on all VMs simultaneously. This would have to be totally redesigned and would be potentially dangerous to run on a single machine (ONE error and you send URL commands to the wrong IP, you're done).

As far as the VPN being disconnected - I actually have the system set up where the internet connection is disabled altogether (and is also set to route through a proxy that doesn't exist) by default and then I have the VPN set up so that it overrides those settings when it's running, so even if the VPN goes down and drops the connection (which happens every so often) - the computer has no connection and if it somehow turns the connection on, it's not routing through a valid DNS server so it can't load anything. I definitely don't have a risk of an IP leak through the VPN lol

[elmo]

Are you using Dedicated VPNs with static IPs?

Are the items being sold in the same category but different? Or different category all together?

I've had 50+ Amazon Stealth accounts for a while and never had a linked account

[imboxsy]

Originally Posted by elmono

Are you using Dedicated VPNs with static IPs?

Are the items being sold in the same category but different? Or different category all together?

I've had 50+ Amazon Stealth accounts for a while and never had a linked account

you have 50 LLCs? Seems like a tax nightmare

[elmo]

Originally Posted by imboxsy

you have 50 LLCs? Seems like a tax nightmare

I have a tax professional that deals with all that busy work :P

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by imboxsy

you have 50 LLCs? Seems like a tax nightmare

I can barely keep track of my eBay Stealth's. I couldn't imagine Amazon with the LLC and the Mac Address issues. Crazy.

[vogeltron]

Originally Posted by elmono

I have a tax professional that deals with all that busy work :P

If you truely make that work you are the man. If I had 50 EINs/LLCs I would be audited a MILLION times over.