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4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Keeping in mind that I'm having issues on Amazon :boink: (never eBay - they are easy and never link accounts), please take a seat and skim through this ridiculous mess of a first post. Amazon has been stepping up their game the last month and I've had a few accounts linked - but one just today that REALLY surprised me :confused: (the 2nd account was linked to the first account, then the 3rd account in this 'set' was just linked today). I still have others, but I'm definitely concerned. Please don't feel inclined to read all this, but before you say I need to do something, just use CTRL+F and make sure I didn't already address it (I'm not new, but I clearly still need to learn if I'm getting linked). :noidea:

I have 3 accounts that were linked (although not linked to any previous suspended accounts - they were linked to the earliest account of the 3, it's as if from that account on, they noticed a certain trend). Each account was bringing in around $250 profit per week by the time they were suspended, so nothing insane but obviously enough to get the accounts reviewed (which I typically pass... I've just noticed more of my accounts than ever are being linked). The accounts that were linked haven't been suspended - I just had to stop listing on the two others and I'm paid as per my schedule. I'm all legit btw, 100% feedback, 100% delivery etc so it's not a performance issue.

Just so you know, I can't do the router trick because of my living situation (others uses Amazon/eBay extensively) - also I am told Amazon actually tracks if you are coming from a different IP every time and they will review you just for not logging in from the same place each time (so a dongle isn't ideal for Amazon either - so I've heard anyway). The best option I've found is (private) VPNs from different companies on like page 5 of google that I check through RBL databases for abuse (the best I can do to determine if there's a chance Amazon has flagged them before).

Also, I'm definitely new here, but I'm not a noob to stealth. I just bought my first home this year because of stealth (774 credit score FTW!! but that's another topic...) and I make almost 6 figures working part time doing this. I know that's not a ton to a lot of these guys, but since I can barely drink legally and am also studying full time to get my Computer Engineering degree - I'm happier than most of my peers. So it's not like I've never made a successful stealth account lol

Here is my setup for AMAZON:
• Virtual machines for each user so I can run them all at one time
-VPNs from all different companies (I know there can be an issue with bad IPs, but I always check them on RBL lists and request new ones until there aren't any hits - and none of them were linked until about a month in on the first one, and a month and a week on the second so it wouldn't be that others got caught on these IPs)


-As an aside (coming from a Computer Engineer in my last year of school), there is literally NO difference between a VPS and a VPN. I've read a lot of stuff on here about how "VPNs have been more abused so if you get a solid VPS it's less likely that someone's abused it". The reality is that a VPS may use an IP address that was used by a VPN the month before. IP address is the only thing Amazon or eBay can see (if you're doing your job right haha), so I see no merit to the VPS vs VPN debate - it's about whether or not the IP address is clean. A VPS is literally just a virtual machine that basically uses a "VPN-like system" to access an IP address that was bought by the same company that recycles them for VPN usage. A virtual machine with a VPN is pretty much the same thing as a VPS (if they're both dedicated obviously). I run all my IPs through RBL databases to check for recent abuse (the best I can do since Amazon doesn't post a blacklist xP lol). Even if it were to be the VPN as the culprit, why would it take a month after all 3 accounts are active to link one, and why would it not link them to my other accounts that have been running longer on the same VPN, but instead link it to other accounts on different VPNs? Also, the VPNs are all on different companies (one of which is 24vc here on aspkin), so it's not like they were linked by similar IP pool.


Moving on...
-All Windows 7 (most common OS currently)
-Different fonts installed (since technically they can track them on firefox, who knows if they do, but might as well let them get a "fingerprint" that they think is me)
-Different screen resolutions (who knows if they use it, but they definitely can track it so why not give them a more unique fingerprint)
-All firefox (still a very common browser), and obviously the VPN is system level so it's impossible to detect original IP address or know it's a re-route
So basically, I'm allowing Amazon to create it's own "fingerprint" of each machine with it's own cookies, resolution, and fonts etc
• Two kinds of credit cards (machine 1 and 2 have the same type, although not number obviously, and machine 3 has a different type)
-Vanilla One cards just as many of you use (purchased myself and from 123 here on aspkin - he uses vanilla one)
-***"My Vanilla" DEBIT cards (which can actually be activated as one time use credit cards to a certain zip code by calling in and special requesting - takes about 60 seconds and I bet few people know about this so I bet this card is never abused - it probably just looks like an actual debit card to them since the first 4 numbers often indicate the type of card)
• Different zip codes all with matching actual billing addresses, IP addresses match that zip code, phone numbers in that zip code (one in St Pete FL, one in Miami FL, one in Los Angeles CA). They are all in smaller cities, just stating cities you'd recognize.
• These 3 all use virtual forwarding numbers - two of which show as bandwith.com on a registration check (so it didn't surprise me they were linked), but the 3rd number (Los Angeles area) is a local business California carrier originally (I do phone number searches to look up the registration, just as Amazon can do - they have the same information we have for this)
• One uses gmail, the other 2 use outlook (including the CA one)
--These all forward to my gmail account along with tons of other seller accounts
--Images blocked, but as you know, gmail saves them on their own servers and forwards to prevent image becaon spying whatever you want to call it
--I do respond via gmail, but it uses smtp for the outlook ones and gmail's server is the same for ALL email accounts so it isn't linking through that
• The 3 accounts were created about a week apart each, give or take a few days. The second account was caught a month in, the 3rd less than a week after.
• Only one of these accounts has had a return, so it isn't matching return addresses (although actually, what I've done for years is send them prepaid return labels as images which Amazon doesn't OCR - gets me good feedback and keeps me from having to deal with freaking PO boxes and UPS ⊗⊗⊗⊗ return addresses in different states than my billing address - but as I said, only one account had a return regardless).
• All of these accounts use Chase FL as the routing number with (obviously) different bank account numbers. I also have Bank of America and will be using that shortly as I now have all 9 free accounts with chase I can use. Interestingly enough, my 3rd account that was linked HAS NO BANK account information yet!

Now, the only similarities I can think of that MAY be (really advanced) links.
1) The timing that I log in. I don't always log in at the same time, but I sometimes log in to one account within 5 minutes of another. I keep them all open at times, close some of them. It's relatively random but you could definitely establish a link IFFF you had enough OTHER reasons to think they were related. Out of thousands of seller accounts, there has to be another link other than "they all logged in during the same hour of the day".
2) The tracking information. My software uses Amazon's shipping system and has the return address as the original billing address. However, it changes the return address on each label before it's printed, so while a label printed in CA is shipped from FL, my actual address is superimposed on top of the stealth one. USPS doesn't care because it's all flat rate anyway. The tracking, however, does still show that it's all coming from the same city which is NOT the originating city of the seller - and probably shows that it was picked up at the same time too. But don't plenty of people use drop shipping or sell from various warehouses? Again, it seems like there must be another link because this might be a 'nail in the coffin' but not enough to awaken the automated Amazon monster.
3) I use a program I designed that downloads the person's order into my database, sends them a message with the estimated delivery based on their location, shipping etc... this program is client side so Amazon sees nothing other than the fact that the orders are processed really f*cking fast. It saves the order page as a text file and interprets the orders, then fills form data using the URL to send them all messages, then downloads their shipping labels through Amazon (obviously the return address is the same as stealth billing address - but on my client machine the program actually overwrites the address to my actual address before it prints it). Each message is unique as it includes different names (buyer and seller), different shipping speeds, different shipping estimates etc but is probably still 80% similar due to the template nature.
4) If there is a way to determine that they are all in virtual machines (I have searched extensively for this and on Firefox, there do not seem to be ANY leaks that would allow this exploit that I am aware of since it would be a security concern and malware could keep itself from activating to prevent companies from finding it easier - firefox prevents this type of check).
5) Inventory is ALL textbooks (I have like $20k of inventory because I've found a lot of original sources, buy in bulk etc - tons of different inventory and I get new inventory in addition to the old whenever I create a new account). The textbooks themselves could be linked to previous accounts since SOME items are similar, but the 3rd account (the one I'm so surprised was linked) is actually selling ALL new items. So there was some other link. I made a bunch of money in sales one summer (sold alarms door to door... no lie) made like $40k and got my online business really going after that so I have plenty of inventory and lots of variance among the items (although they're all the same category).


What am I missing here? I'm still getting half of my accounts caught when I create them, and NONE of them are getting traced to my old suspended accounts - just some active accounts get linked together for no obvious reason. Not a huge deal since the money isn't held (not suspended, just 'warning'), but still annoying as hell and takes a bit of time and money to set up each account.

Feel free to scold me if anything I said was just totally off - I'm going off personal experience and my knowledge of computers and the internet. If you guys know that one of my assumptions is wrong for some reason, I'm definitely more than willing to learn

Now, I could, lol I could literally go one by one and test each thing over the course of the next year (since they never catch them immediately). I could create a new account with Windows XP, new fonts, internet explorer, a new VPN, not use any of my programming, make it from my original city, get a cricket (AT&T) phone so they see major carrier, and then see if I still have issues (meaning it's either VPN somehow or Virtual Machine). But I'd rather see if you guys full of wisdom have any thoughts for someone who has read almost every post here and has never actually posted... until now -__-

Thanks guys, sorry for the long post, I just didn't want to have someone say "well did you change the billing address"?

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

amazon look for similiarities.

That is enough to link you.


Make accounts that are totally unique


:welcome;

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Hey GreenBean - I've followed your posts more than almost ANYONE else's. Honored to have you lol

What specifically would you recommend in my situation? I realize that Amazon has a much more complex algorithm than eBay and I've noticed them link me for the most incredible things - but I'm very experienced in stealth and have done this for years, but lately have had more accounts linked. Any specific suggestions that could help? I know my post was really long... thanks for your input.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

So since one got linked without bank information, its easy to say that you can eliminate banking stealth practices as the culprit.

Do you use any third party apps like shipstation?

I honestly think its the VPN. I'm not experienced enough to say for sure, but I play poker, and when the US player base was cut out of pokerstars (a very popular poker European site), US customers were using VPNs to continue playing, but pokerstars would catch you using this method 100% of the time (even if the VPN was based in Canada, a country that was allowed).

Which makes me believe that advances in security might give amazon the ability to determine if you are using a VPN or something.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Hey imboxsy - I've seen your posts before too! Thanks for getting on!

Right, it wouldn't be bank account, it's likely not phone numbers (since the registration shows up differently), it's probably not inventory (all different, although same category), not credit cards (two different types)..... so yea VPN is definitely one of the options. The thing is - I know for a 100% fact that it is technologically impossible for them to determine if it's a VPN or not... the only way is by looking at IP address registration or by checking against a blacklist.

The 3rd account that was linked (so surprisingly), was a VPN that was from a very reputable seller here on aspkin (I think it was 123 if I'm not mistaken) - I was referred to 24vc for the VPN. I did IP checks on it and everything cleared, registration looks totally benign etc.

But here's the thing that makes me think it ISN'T THAT:
• The accounts were explicitly linked. In other words, I got an email on account 2 saying "we know you have account 1, stop your selling on this one or we will suspend you - you bad bad boy." And then a week later, I got another email on account 3 saying the same thing. Since I've used VPN on tons of accounts and only recently used 24vc - even if they figured out that it was a VPN using a blacklist or IP registration, how would they specifically link it to the first account ONLY!? I've had TONS of accounts through various IPs and VPNs, but it didn't link to any suspended accounts or my other active accounts - only the first account on a totally different VPN server. See what I mean??

Any other thoughts imboxsy?? I think you're on my exact train of thought though - that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for!!!

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Also, what is the LockBox section and what determines which posts go here? Still learning this forum, thanks for your patience guys!!

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

aspkin created a dedicated part of the forum for subscribers like yourself.

Post like yours are ideal for there. They involve in depth talk about stealth.....

Read over this part of the forum. Lots of juicy bits to help in your learning curve are here.

:yar:

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Must say overall your setup sounds solid, if I was to nitpick I'd say dont use forwarding numbers, get a cheap tracfone instead. Especially considering how many probs people been having with using forwarding numbers on ebay, and we all know how much harder amazon is.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Thanks for your response 123 - I was really hoping you would end up on here. That's what I have been most afraid of. I've been lazy not going the Tracfone route. Especially because Amazon never calls (and I mean NEVER - I've "tried"). They only need a clean number for verification. I've looked at ways to buy previous carrier numbers and port them (all that Amazon can see is registration), but frankly that is a pretty small niche lol not a lot of companies selling that xP

My issue with thinking it's the phone numbers is that the 3rd one pulled a different registration (wasn't bandwidth.com), and even if they DID realize it was a VOIP (and therefore suspicious) number, how does that allow them to link directly to another SPECIFIC account? When I have several other active and old suspended accounts that did not get matched? In other words, even if that could serve as an initial flag, there must be another similarity between the accounts that is being tracked right?

I just wanted to see if there were any other connections anyone sees so I don't have to go back to having a bunch of phones in a drawer like I'm dealing something fierce.

Thanks all

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Yeah the fact that your accounts are getting linked considering your setup is very interesting, even though your software is client side do you think it could potentially cause amazon to pick up some similarities? When your using vmware do you make full clones of each image or copies?

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

@123 - You are awesome, thank you for going through and reading the details of my mess of a post. The software IS one of the things I think could be a really advanced link. I designed it so that it acts just like a user in that all the request are sent through the browser. So the only differentiation Amazon has between a user and the software is 1) It's very fast, 2) It probably takes about the same amount of time every order (i.e. sign of a computer), and 3) The message contents are 80% the same from account to account. HOWEVER, they still vary within those accounts based on shipping speeds, delivery times, names etc

My thought is I can run it through a random seed within certain restraints (say, have each order take 2 to 5 seconds randomly), and I can have it send totally unique message templates for each and every account. The thing is, it's an order confirmation message and it's pretty short - there are 5 or 6 variations of it per account AND each variation has its own variables (Amazon's estimated delivery is between [ARR1]October 30th and [ARR2]November 10th, but I'm actually [SHIP TIME] "sending it first thing tomorrow morning" so your delivery is actually scheduled for [SCHEDULE]"THIS Monday" by USPS. I went ahead and [UPGRADE-Y/N]upgraded the shipping to [TYPE]"Second Day"... see where I'm going with that? Each variable has information that is replaced by the software. So it's definitely pretty varied, so idk - I guess I would just want to meet the engineer that programmed for that kind of similarity without also including THOUSANDS of other legit sellers in the mix lol

Also, good note about VMWare - I did a ton of research to figure out if you can show that you're in a virtual machine (you can't on the latest version of every major browser since it's a security risk because malware could stop misbehaving on virtual machine test machines). I also looked at full clones vs linked and whether or not the fact that the OS would have the same product key (and serial) would make a difference - but again, this is impossible to read server side due to the security risk. Literally they have access to fonts, screen resolution, cookies, java/flash giveaways (I don't have either installed in firefox anyway) - they can't tell a virtual machine. I don't like user accounts because I have 4 monitors and I keep my accounts open at once and work on school and stuff too - it would be a PITA to constantly switch user accounts to process orders.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

This may sound dumb, but when you list your product on Amazon, do you use an established listing to piggy back on their UPC code or do you start a new one? And if it's a new one, are you including images? Are the images uploaded directly from your computer or are they hosted with a url supplied to Amazon via say an Excel spreadsheet? The reason I ask this question is because when I upload a product spreadsheet to amazon, I place the images in a folder on one of my websites (which happens to be hosted at go daddy). Now all the websites have private registration so they cannot see who owns them. However, because they are all on the same hosting account, they all technically have the same IP address (which could then link them all to one account regardless of who owns them). Now I have no idea if Amazon goes that far, but in creating new stealth accounts for Amazon, I was thinking that if I wanted to host my own images, then I'd better have different hosting accounts from godaddy or xyz hosting just to make sure the images are not coming from the same IP address on the server.

Once again, you may not be doing this at all… but it's a thought.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

You're exactly right - Amazon DOES track that kind of thing. That's the only part of the process that isn't automated for me (sucks). I put up listings manually when I create new accounts (and I do that slowly). I buy new products and put up new stuff (and a bunch of ASIN that is priced slightly too high to sell, but high enough that if I did sell it - I'd order it somewhere else and send it to them to maintain a good account). I only list on previous Amazon listings, I do not upload images (which can also have tags associated with them - i.e. if 4 different sellers all have pictures taken from a MotoX with the owner name 'getdatpu$$Y69'... that could be a link haha same for all the images coming from one IP Address that NO other sellers use. Amazon is notoriously anal about almost everything you could possibly think of -_-

Thanks for coming from a different angle though - that's what I need... I gotta think outside the box to solve this one!

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

GreenBean - I know this is dumb but I just figured out how to quote. This is literally my first time ever posting in ANY forum so this is all new to me :confused:

I really have gone through hundreds of your posts and I know you deal on Amazon a lot (I've followed most of your suggestions already), so I would really be curious if you had any other thoughts for this specific situation! Thanks!!

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

The thing I find strange in all this they have not suspended you for linked accounts. Linking and counterfeit are the number one reason for suspending and deleting account. Can you copy and paste the email they sent you.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Hi Mickey - I agree! Here is the trend I've noticed after a few years though: If they link you to an ACTIVE account in GOOD standing that is NOT under review - you will simply receive a warning and will be asked to remove the listings under the 2nd account (the earliest one stays, regardless of volume). If you are linked to a previously suspended account - you are suspended immediately (90 day hold). I've never had money taken on counterfeit claims (other than the wayward buyer every thousands of transactions) so I can't comment on that.

Here are the emails for this particular one (in order):

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

[To Second Account]
Hello,

We are writing because it has come to our attention that you are operating more than one selling account on our site. As per our Community Rules, sellers must limit their selling activity to one account.




In accordance with this policy, please cancel all listings on your "[Second Account]" account, and limit your selling activities to your "[First Account]' (interestingly enough, this was literally just a string of numbers - wasn't even a name mentioned... a response from my follow up indicated it was the First account) account.

Please note that failure to comply with this request may result in the blocking of all of your selling accounts.

We appreciate your cooperation in this important matter.

Regards,

Seller Performance Team
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com




[To Third Account A Week Later]
Hello,

We are writing because you may be violating our policies by operating multiple accounts.

Our policies prohibit operating and maintaining multiple seller accounts. For more information on this policy, search on "Prohibited Seller Activities and Actions" in seller Help.

${Insert which acct seller should cancel listings from & which acct seller should continue selling from}

**Action Required: Within 48 hours of this notice, please cancel all listings on your [Third Account] account, and limit your selling activities to your [First Account] account.

Failure to comply with this request may result in the removal of your selling privileges.

We appreciate your cooperation and thank you for selling on Amazon.com.

Regards,

Seller Performance Team
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com


[One Day Later on First Account Because I Hadn't Canceled Yet]
Hello,

We are writing because it has come to our attention that you are operating multiple merchant accounts.

This activity is in violation of our policies, which state that "operating and maintaining multiple seller accounts is prohibited."

${Insert which acct seller should cancel listings from & which acct seller should continue selling from}

In accordance with this policy, please cancel all listings on your [Third Account] account, and limit your selling activities to your [First Account] account.

Please note that failure to comply with this request may result in the blocking of all of your selling accounts.

We appreciate your cooperation in this important matter.

Regards,

Seller Performance Team
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Also, in case someone reading this hasn't gone through my entire first post (understandably), I have other accounts using this same set up that are not linked and continue to pay out without issue. That's one reason the "link" (to the third account especially!), has become very difficult for me place.

EDIT: Also, the accounts that were linked are all on the exact same pay schedules as before (as is my previous experience). They will pay out weekly until there's no more money and then the [First Account] will continue to both sell and pay out. So it's not like I have thousands tied up for several months - it's not TOO horrible, it's just that I like to spread out my risk and get feedback/payment from several accounts so if one gets reviewed, I don't have to keep taking advantage of American Express' 0% kindness until the end of next year lol

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Thanks for the posting, I was just a little curious why they were not suspended. You upload your stocks manually and automatically I assume. You have the ASIN,UPC and your seller SKU. Do you change the seller SKU for each account as this will cause a link.

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

Any updates? I wonder if the messages being sent is the culprit. You're basically sending the same template between the accounts just with a few variables changed. I have read that they have bots that pick up things in messages to customers (most likely to prevent fraud)

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

They don't suspend if your linked with your active account, just send you warning as stated earlier. Same thing happened to me beginning of this year. BTW both acc r dead now:hail::doh:

Re: 4 Years Stealth - 6 Figures Annually - Still Getting Linked
 

My other accounts have not been linked. Also, the accounts that WERE linked have since paid out fully since it has been 28 days (rolling reserve payments totaling about 4k - not a ton because they were new and never were actually suspended so I kept getting paid). It's strange, because upon logging in, I actually get a message up top encouraging me to put listings up since I don't have any. They are both fully active and ready to list (I just took the listings down 'voluntarily' to avoid suspension and holding of funds). They are still both on a 28 day rolling reserve while they are 'reviewed', but it doesn't appear that they plan to suspend them and they have no funds left to disperse at this point.

I did change the message I use but have not yet made them unique to each account. I'm going to go ahead and modify my software to just use a different template for each account (change up the order and the way I say things).

Also, I have another new account that has been running low sales (building it up) since I posted last and still no issues (no other changes except I'm using Chrome). So definitely an interesting little anomaly.

Still selling strong otherwise.