Stealth Gone Wrong? Insane

[BigCJ]

Originally Posted by sdot10

Thats my thing danshan. definitely has me a big nervous. just because we arent scamming people doesnt mean its legal. im still looking into it more. i really HOPE there is more to it that brought the cops aboard.

No need to worry just yet.

Just because its against a websites TOS does not mean that its against the law unless your are BLATANTLY taking/stealing and ebay/paypal is losing money. Many people run different businesses under different names.

Ebay know that if they were to require ID and such for EACH account, stealth or not, they are shooting themselves in the foot with a shotgun.

[danshan]

Originally Posted by BigCJ

No need to worry just yet.

Just because its against a websites TOS does not mean that its against the law unless your are BLATANTLY taking/stealing and ebay/paypal is losing money. Many people run different businesses under different names.

Ebay know that if they were to require ID and such for EACH account, stealth or not, they are shooting themselves in the foot with a shotgun.

According to that statute it does not look legal, stealing or not stealing is not how the law is written.

[yotano211]

Originally Posted by danshan

The question is how is stealth legal? I mean looking at that, it looks as if it absolutely is not. Anybody on here got any legal background or a lawyer cousin?

I already talked to a lawyer about this about a year after I first started selling full time. He said its a gray area.

I told him the complete truth, how I make accounts, what stuff I sell. I told him everything and the complete process of making new accounts. I even made him 1 stealth account of his own. Still has it to this day with over 100fb.

Anyways, He said since I am making up names and using address that I get from MSN whitepages, which is public info, I am not doing any mail fraud. I showed him the process to get the money out, he said I am vioting the Terms of Service with ebay/paypal. Since the bank accounts has to be in my own name. When you sign up for a paypal account, it says to list your legal name. Well my legal name is not Meg Whitman.

After the intial 1 hour mark, the time was up for his paid services but we continued talking for another 35 min. In the end, he told me "continue what you are doing and be sure to ship everything out in time and list only things you have in stock or that you are sure will get to your customers (drop shipping), if not, then that will be considered mail fraud".

Several years later, I am still selling.

[danshan]

Gray area huh, so really just the interpretation of the agency looking into it. A cpa I know said using diff names and addresses could easily be construed as tax fraud. I told him i pay taxes on everything I earn but he said because of llc's and diff names the tax rate can be effected. He also said stating you are one place and doing biz as in that state and not filing and paying taxes in that state depending on the state is evasion. I will call an attorney Tuesday because 110k this guy stole is nothing compared to my sales amounts and they looked at him. I have 36 bank accounts open right now all in my name and ss or llc or ein names. Having banks is not illegal so why did the bank investigators contact the police on this guy? How in the world would the bank know he is stealing?

[yankee]

I always say, If you don't think what your are doing is right, then you should not be doing it.
The vast majority of us are are not scamming, stealing, coning, or ripping people off. That person was.

[danshan]

Right in many instances has nothing to do with legal. A guy rapes my wife, i might and many others think its right to kill him or injure him but you still go to jail. Right is irrelevant.

[yotano211]

Originally Posted by danshan

Gray area huh, so really just the interpretation of the agency looking into it. A cpa I know said using diff names and addresses could easily be construed as tax fraud. I told him i pay taxes on everything I earn but he said because of llc's and diff names the tax rate can be effected. He also said stating you are one place and doing biz as in that state and not filing and paying taxes in that state depending on the state is evasion. I will call an attorney Tuesday because 110k this guy stole is nothing compared to my sales amounts and they looked at him. I have 36 bank accounts open right now all in my name and ss or llc or ein names. Having banks is not illegal so why did the bank investigators contact the police on this guy? How in the world would the bank know he is stealing?

I am wondering too, how did the bank(s) know he was stealing. Or did paypal got a-hold of the bank and talked to them. But isnt there some kind of privacy laws against that.

[danshan]

I would say privacy laws for sure. I tried to find more details on this online and could not.

[Dmshark25]

He had 400 Bank Accounts, I'll Bet he had a lot maybe say 30+ Accounts with one Bank, and all receiving funds in different names, that raises a flag at the Bank and they will Report this Activity to Authorities

And from there it is investigated

[yankee]

not only that but we are talking about 400 PERSONAL bank accounts. Not even a business lol It would look like laundering for sure to any bank

[bananaappeal]

lol @ cooking 400 paypal accounts all to make 100k

rather go back to my trade.

[danshan]

Originally Posted by Dmshark25

He had 400 Bank Accounts, I'll Bet he had a lot maybe say 30+ Accounts with one Bank, and all receiving funds in different names, that raises a flag at the Bank and they will Report this Activity to Authorities

And from there it is investigated

And if it is investigated and the cops come to my house and say who is john doe, who is carl doe, who dave doe what do i tell them?

[rsot]

You tell them to speak to your lawyer - because at that point...you will need one.

[danshan]

Why if stealth is ok as long as your not scamming? Im getting nervous about this stealth stuff for real. I spoke to a lawyer and he laughed and said what do you think. An unauthorized person accessing a computer network or services is a crime is what he said. If ebay banned you from their services you are unauthorized. He said in brick and mortar terms its like trespassing after someone told you to leave their property. The cake names he said is grey because it truly is not a real person unless your really unlucky and somehow make a real match but the trespassing is illegal.

[yankee]

So you are tresspassing on ebays website?

Have you ever received a Criminal Trespass Warrant From Ebay?

[danshan]

Im not getting into a legal word battle wth anyone I do not have the skills to be honest. I am just repeating what the lawyer said. He said if ebay notifies you that you are not authorized to use their services or sites and you still do that is a crime it falls under the federal and somevstates hacking statutes in the usa at least.

[bananaappeal]

Originally Posted by danshan

Why if stealth is ok as long as your not scamming? Im getting nervous about this stealth stuff for real. I spoke to a lawyer and he laughed and said what do you think. An unauthorized person accessing a computer network or services is a crime is what he said. If ebay banned you from their services you are unauthorized. He said in brick and mortar terms its like trespassing after someone told you to leave their property. The cake names he said is grey because it truly is not a real person unless your really unlucky and somehow make a real match but the trespassing is illegal.

Consider yourself a dropshipping agent.

John, Dave, Joe Doe all make sales with whatever platform and they simply pay you directly into your bank and you ship out the items.

[bananaappeal]

[danshan]

Lol is that what i am? I guess federal frat parties makes me paranoid. I also have been for the last couple years like normal running my mouth calling other people scammers and criminals.

[GreenBean]

Originally Posted by yotano211

I am wondering too, how did the bank(s) know he was stealing. Or did paypal got a-hold of the bank and talked to them. But isnt there some kind of privacy laws against that.

Where is this naivety coming from?

If the teams at paypal have an idea that an account or accounts are being run in a manner not acceptable to the T&S of that company, you can not truly think they play nicely to work out everything?

Privacy laws are out the window then. These investigators operate on an network. A call to my buddy in whatever state to find out whatever I might need to know about an account....

Ask jeffweico. There is an ENTIRE industry devoted to tracing people whose financial conduct is not on the level

Privacy laws do not matter. Idiots thinking they are protected need to rethink whatever game they are playing.

[Breakthecycle2]

I'm assuming this might have triggered it:

Warrant Arrested: David E. Grindle, 41, Boise

Warrant Charges: Fraudulent Use of a Financial Transaction Card (F)

The suspect was taken into custody on an outstanding felony warrant for Receiving Stolen Property Saturday.

The arrest warrant stems from an ongoing investigation into the use of a credit card without authorization on January 21st of this year. Evidence indicates the suspect used the credit card without the owners permission to obtain goods and services valued at more than $2,000.00. The crime was reported to Boise Police on January 21st of this year. That investigative information was forwarded to the Ada County Prosecuting Attorney's Office and resulted in the felony warrant.

[oompaloompa]

Originally Posted by pokerpro

This guy is so stupid, I hope he hasn't reproduced.......

these people always reproduce the most...