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Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Sensationalism.

The reality is, the HMRC at this stage, are not going to pursue legal cases against everyone they believe are avoiding various taxes especially not for low under VAT limit levels. Sure they 'may' give you a big old fine if they invest their resources into finding you.

I suspect, with the Police state that Keir wants to create that further down the line there may be increased management and punishments dealt out, but I doubt we won't see that for a while, if ever.

I appreciate you have got yourself very rattled by it and that's half the point of all the press releases, I think many Steathers have been rattled, alongside the tens of thousands airbnbers, etsy sellers, etc...

In reality we know what it will look like for a year or two, and I'll put money on it now we won't see much of anything.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

no one can look into it quickly and accuse someone of tax evasion , this must be investigated

the most likely primary target will be the VAT crowd because VAT is the most important tax and it is owed for turnover regardless of any loss or profit

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

The reality is, you don't know. Nobody does. They have said they have turned over £120k, so that's VAT evasion. HMRC will take that seriously. Do you think HMRC will say "Yeah, it's VAT evasion, but don't worry about it then?" That's just one year as well. How much is it historically?!

I'm not worried at all, because all my accounts are either in mine or my wife's name. Enough things to worry about in life without HMRC being one of them. You want to take the risk go for it mate.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Well they can. If they receive the data from the marketplaces and the turnover is more then the Vat threshold, and they aren't registered for VAT, it's very easy.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

that is the VAT crowd

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

It would appear that you've not read my post correctly.

I have 4 accounts each selling around £30k in sales in 2024. However, they are all 100% Stealth, which means on the report that HMRC receive they'll say £30k, then a few pages down another £30k, another few pages another £30k, etc.

They won't all be lined up right next to each other, so as far as HMRC they're all different people. They'll only investigate me if they suspect all 4 accounts are the same person, and there's not much chance of that.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

no one knows what the chances are but really they would need to hire a lot of new people doing this , I am not sure if a guy having 30K is really worth it , even if they do not pay any taxes they may be charged income tax , national insurance + penalty

from 30K that would not be a lot , it would also be possible to claim expenses , 0% threshold etc. , from 30K I doubt there would be more than 5 to pay

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

After they've dealt with everyone who gave their real NI number, by sending them a letter reminding them they need to complete a self assessment.

Then they'll investigate those people who fail to complete a self assessment, remember this is probably going to be in 2027 at a minimum.

This is the low hanging fruit.

After this they'll start looking at the harder targets, people who mistyped their NI number, and they'll start with the high earners, when they get down to 30k, and matching up multiple bank accounts to one person, we'll probably all be retired.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

I would imagine long before they get to me they'd have to start again with 2025 accounts, then 2026 accounts etc.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Exactly, and as long as you've never lied (ie, you've never mentioned it at all because you didn't know you had to declare your ebay income) then if they ever do write to you, find an accountant and they negotiate a settlement for you.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

I have read it correctly. You have 4 stealth accounts turning over £30K a year. HMRC will see the details you provided are fictitious. Each of your stealth accounts have a bank account on this. If\when HMRC contact your bank they will provide your details. HMRC will then see you have 4 accounts turning over £100K a year.

All this will be automated. Even if you have one account turning over £30K and the details on the account are made up they, they won't just let it fly.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

They don't at all though. All this can easily be automated, and will be. It's 2025 not 1973

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

there are no automated tax bills , it is an urban legend. an automated tax bill may come if there is a clear basis for it , for example you declared a profit in a tax return and this results in an amount to pay or you have a property or car that results in a tax bill

but sending tax bills to people who supposedly received undeclared profits like traffic tickets is not going to work

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

I disagree with so much of what you guys have put, you don't know, and you're looking for answers that make you not worry, but I don't care as it won't effect me.

If you think HMRC are gonna sit back and do nothing about this when the country is in such a bad state financially, you're in for a shock. What's the point in implementing legislation and then not using it. I can't be bothered to comment on these posts any more.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

no one said that HMRC is going to sit back , the problem is with your logic because you are arguing that it is possible to send some kind of automated bills to everyone and check everyone's bank accounts

this is not only not the case but it is technically not doable otherwise that would have been done already. each case needs an investigation which has to be done by someone , the only real exception is VAT

this is not even UK legislation , it was decided abroad and forced upon all countries to implement

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

The only way forward is to declare to the HMRC.

You shouldn't be using stealth accounts to avoid tax.

Using stealth accounts on eBay isn't illegal. Avoiding tax is.

Declare your earnings and keep records. HMRC doesn't give a crap or need to know if you're running a stealth account. They only care that tax is getting paid.

Maybe write in your NI number with a single typo if you want to put more safety in place.

Stealth accounts are no longer going to last more than a few months at a time. Make sure you have 2-3 in place at different stages of their life (1 month old, 2 month old, 3 month old) so when one dies you don't lose your income.

Good luck!

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

One thing I do know having read between the lines, the golden days are over. I wasn't around back in those days. I bet a lot of people became multi millionaires using stealth.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Basically this.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

I don't think they're implying in any way that they can send an automated bill to everyone, clearly that's a ridiculous idea.

Nobody knows what HMRC will do, but what you're missing with your 'they would have been doing it already' argument is currently they have to trawl marketplaces to find their victims, very soon they will have potential customers handed to them on a plate. Sales figure, NI numbers, bank details etc. Surely you can see with even the most basic of algorithms then cherry-picking a few prime candidates for investigation will be considerably easier requiring a fraction of the manpower than it does now.

A clever algorithm, one we may not even consider possible, could link bank accounts for those who claim they're 100% stealth. They ain't, and they're kidding themselves if they think they are.

Anyway, it's every man for himself very soon. True stealth is dead so just do what you think you can get away with and whatever shall be, shall be.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Indeed, so stop scaremongering with Trump style sensationalism.

You don't know the users bank setup nor the details provided to eBay, so you have no idea if it could all be linked anyway, least of all by a massively underfunded office that struggles to even manage legitimate taxation concerns.

You're on a Stealth website, where you will have committed all sorts of identity fraud like us all when establishing our selling accounts and parading yourself around like a hero because you *think* you have your accounts now *safe*, which you don't know for sure you don't , as what came before you made these changes, still exist.

So just chill with the sensationalism.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Actually you'll find provided ⊗⊗⊗⊗ details to a financial entity which eBay now is, is illegal. Deception, providing false information, theres loads of laws this would fall into.

Everything Stealth is,in the UK at least, illegal. I find it comical that some are making out a hierarchy of whose being more illegal than another lol.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

stealth account can only be illegal on paper but no one cares as long as no crimes are committed with it

there is only one country that I know of that actually cares about this stuff , that country is germany , down there it is called manipulation of electronic data

my sincere condolences to germans that have not immigrated yet

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

It's all about resources. Slowly the UK is being made into a Police state, and the next few years will show how far it's going to go and how they are going to handle it all.

Funnily, this new 'reporting law' is putting a lot of people into giving up selling and moving the claim Universal Credit, so it's going to end up costing the State more ££ in the long run. Rich people like most politicians don't understand how many people survive on the bit on the side they don't necessarily pay tax on to survive.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

that is a very dramatic view of things , I am sure that smaller sellers will just continue selling , they would only stop if there should be large waves of cases against them or people like them from HMRC

I also find the assumption adventurous that a british police state would hunt down poor suckers who were suspended many times and are trying to survive using stealth accounts. I would rather expect , if such a state were to exist , it
would be hunting down other poor suckers , those writing comments on various platforms and mass ambushing drivers violating traffic rules

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

It's actually the opposite, I actually doubt anything is going to happen in regards to the HMRC, at least not for a few years. I was merely pointing out that all the sensationalism regarding the tax dodge, which let face it, 90% of people that use this forum do, and probably some of those that claim they don't, is just that. Obviously an opinion, but some posters write like its 'fact' while knowing no one knows, yet.

However, you must not be in the UK nor keep up with the new governments (that started with the previous one) development of snooping laws, and the creation of a Police state, because it is very much happening. The new 'we can look into your bank account anytime we want' law trying to be passed will be a huge part of that.

The Police rarely look at mitigating circumstances they are very 'black and white' , if they see a crime, and say its a junior PC wanting to make their mark, they are like a dog with a bone.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

stealth accounts are not a case for police though. I recall the time about 15 years ago it was a hot topic , many letters from HMRC were arriving , thousands of letters. it did not really change much at the end

when they want to change things they should act like germans , just prosecuting / persecuting people out of principle but even germans have problems , their justice system is half dead half alive

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Oh those letters still arrive, but they don't seem to follow up on them. And these are ones to legitimate accounts, let alone Stealth accounts. When a ftiend got one, and didn't even sell online, she contacted HMRC and was told they are just circular letters and they could not even look into the reason she recieved one as it 'came from a different department'. All very silly.

Obnviously now, the goal posts have moved with the Police State coming into force, but I personally think people will be safe for a few years till they get better at managing all the data and creating laws to fine. I doubt anyone is going to get prosecuted, there just isn't the resources for that.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

police state and ebay are not related in this matter , HMRC and police have little in common most of the time

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

A Police State does not directly mean 'Police' lol. The Police State certainly is related, because that is exactly where the snooping laws and HMRC control is from.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

the snooping laws are needed to control the population

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

= Police State.

You do come back with some contradictory statements, its very odd!

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Whilst I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote, let's just say I have first hand experience of dealing with all of this above and whilst I can't or won't go into detail for various reasons, you're only going to get prosecuted for dodging/evading tax. Stealth accounts will just be used against you in aid of the dodging/evading.

You will not end up in a cell if you declare your income and you have used stealth accounts. They only care for numbers and payments.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

no contradiction , control over the population is not the same as taking control of taxes. they will be primarily directed at people opposing the state that is why they have already started hunting people down for "thought crimes", tightening of taxation I have not seen so far

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

All depends on the prosecutor imo...if an eager detective uncovers something they think will 'put them on the map' then they will certainly go after everything and try to make it a big expose of it. No journalist has really touched Stealth accounts and the methods used to operate them, but it will happen eventually and then the door will be wide open.

Obviously, everything is speculation.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

It is EXACTLY the same as taking control of taxes.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

they already have control of taxes , in western countries the tax system works a lot stricter than the rest , for example you are guilty until you prove that you are innocent has been a major feature for many years

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

They don't, otherwise they wouldn't be taking measures such as what they are doing with online sales.

I agree, in the UK, we are very much guilty until proven innocent, thats why it only takes someone to suggest you've done something with no proof, and the Police will come and take you away in cuffs. It's only going to get worse as the Police State prevails.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

They might come and take you away in cuffs if your're rude to someone on twitter. Stealth account, not so much.

All the more reason to keep your stealth game tight.

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

Well racism, prejudism and fascist rhetoric should be cuffed, which is what we see people being arrested for for their online hate speil...although, admittedly they don't like anyone opposing the Labour Police State and its genocidal political standings..

I see it more of a problem than not paying tax of a pack of party balloons you may have sold on eBay, but then again, I am a socialist :)

Re: HMRC effects £1740 limit
 

taxes are just a small part of the puzzle , in reality HMRC has had authoriterian powers over taxes for years , it is more a question of what should be enforced

investigating small tax payers only makes sense for intimidation but it is a losing business , they can not pay much and many who get a high bill would not be able to pay anyway. most people do not even have meaningful savings so it would need to be investigated and settlement would be offered which still may not be paid due to lack of funds

it is really like shooting with cannons at pigeons , that is not the pigeons that are gonna run out but the ammo for cannons