Probable scam using paypal

[Cmoon]

Hi all.
Last month, I sold a 9ct gold chain for £950 paid via Paypal and sent the chain off to the buyer. 3 days later I got a chargeback for the full £950 leaving my paypal account £530 in the red. I had proof of delivery signed by the buyer in his own name. I found out later he also had another name on ebay.

I was advised by PayPal to call Action Fraud which I did to report the internet theft and they started an investigation. I also found in the following week, at least another five sellers who had been targeted by this same fraudster. All this information I sent to the Fraud police and to PayPal. Since that time, Paypal has refunded me £530, but nothing since. I have had no explanation and after writing to them several times, I am getting nowhere. Even though they have proof of this person's fraudulent activity, they are doing nothing!

What the scammer does is to contact eBay sellers asking them to sell their gold items on a buy it now basis. He then pays directly. You think, "this must be safe, he's already paid, then you send him the item to his designated address 'Special Delivery' and obtain a signed receipt." A week or so later, it is found that he or his cohorts are hacking into PayPal account holders to pay for these items, and pushing to seller to send items before the PayPal account victim discovers what has happened. They then open a claim for "unauthorised access to their PayPal account" and the seller's account is suspended until PayPal fully refund the buyer. So, the seller has lost. First the money, then the gold chain. Someone please tell us what we can do further. Paypal still owe us £420 which is a lot of momey to us.

I'd welcome any questions or help that anyone might have.
Thanks for listening
Simon.

[they_screwed_me_too]

hi simon

sorry am i missing something here

your story is exactly like the OP's thread

buyer bought the item and you sent it

you have proof of delivery

seller protection will cover you

or is there more too it ?

define "chargeback" did he open an item not recieved case or an "unauthorised payment" from his card ?

call paypal and get them onto it, dont mess around writing and emailling

speak to someone higher up the ladder than the usual paypal cannon fodder

[rsot]

Originally Posted by Cmoon

What the scammer does is to contact eBay sellers asking them to sell their gold items on a buy it now basis. He then pays directly. You think, "this must be safe, he's already paid, then you send him the item to his designated address 'Special Delivery' and obtain a signed receipt." A week or so later, it is found that he or his cohorts are hacking into PayPal account holders to pay for these items, and pushing to seller to send items before the PayPal account victim discovers what has happened. They then open a claim for "unauthorised access to their PayPal account" and the seller's account is suspended until PayPal fully refund the buyer. So, the seller has lost. First the money, then the gold chain. Someone please tell us what we can do further. Paypal still owe us £420 which is a lot of momey to us.

I'd welcome any questions or help that anyone might have.
Thanks for listening
Simon.

Not much you can do - keep pushing. PP is a tough cookie when it comes to chargeback decisions

[danshan]

the chargeback does not matter. if you have sig confirm and delivery to the address on the payment you are covered under seller protection

[Cmoon]

Hi, & thanks for your reply.
There are slight differences.
1: The buyer was not the person who paid via paypal

2: The payment was made as a gift, therefore according to paypal it is not covered under their protection policy.

3: Chargeback. Papal froze my account after having taken the cost of the gold chain out, which left my account £530 in the red.

4: The person who's paypal account was used to make this payment complained to paypal that someone had made an "unauthorized payment" from his paypal account.

5: I have spoken to paypal but as you say I must go higher up the chain

The really odd part in all this is Paypal later unfrose my account returning the balance back to zero. In effect they had refunded me part of the £950 but not all of it. This still leaves me 420 worse off.

[Cmoon]

Part of me is worried that they will reverse the part payment and make me pay the whole lot (£950) back to them.

[igotsuspended]

Originally Posted by Cmoon

Hi, & thanks for your reply.

2: The payment was made as a gift, therefore according to papal it is not covered under their protection policy.

This is your big mistake.
Never sell things by payment without shipping address unless you know and trust your buyer.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by Cmoon

Part of me is worried that they will reverse the part payment and make me pay the whole lot (£950) back to them.

It's sad but there is really nothing that we can do to assure - PP is kind of a weird beast - you did get partial settlement...I have not seen cases of PP reversing a partial decision and taking all money back...but then again, PP has been changing...only time will tell.

In the meantime, perhaps consider closing the bank account while you fight for the remaining balance

[JamesNorth101]

The problem here is that you received the money as a gift.

[danshan]

You are screwed you lose. You have no protection. Accept the loss and move on

[Cmoon]

I did receive the money as a gift yes. Oh well, I've been on ebay for 9 years and have never been scammed. Just goes to show there's always a first time. I got complacent, dropped my guard for a few minutes.......That's all it took. Just a pain that it was was the most expensive thing I've ever sold on ebay. Thanks all you guys for your help & comments, I really do appreciate it. Auction stealth, here I come!

[Cmoon]

Before I wrap this one up I have to say this. Paypal advertises on tv as a means of being a very safe way to give and to receive money. I didn't class my experience as being safe.
Thanks again guys.

[danshan]

Originally Posted by Cmoon

I did receive the money as a gift yes. Oh well, I've been on ebay for 9 years and have never been scammed. Just goes to show there's always a first time. I got complacent, dropped my guard for a few minutes.......That's all it took. Just a pain that it was was the most expensive thing I've ever sold on ebay. Thanks all you guys for your help & comments, I really do appreciate it. Auction stealth, here I come!

The issue is if you are going to sell and big numbers please read the policies. You need to know what you are doing and DONT believe the hype learn the rules and policies and do not believe ebay and paypal flunkies they do not know the rules and will say anything to get off the phone.

[rsot]

Oh wow - money as a gift...that is going to be rough to fight on TOP of the chargeback - you got some money back...I would learn from it and move on...not worth wasting a lot of time over.

[jeffweico]

The lesson here is never accept any order where the buyer asks you to ship to an address other than the one confirmed by PayPal, and not to receive the money as a gift.

We can only speculate as to who may or may not have been involved. Be aware that a large illegal market for stolen PayPal accounts exists, just like for credit cards. Sellers have to follow PayPal's rules to be covered under seller protection.