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Why waste your time with Vero?
 

I, like many of you used to waste my time with Vero listings. It was a race between my listing ending 'naturally' and ebay shutting them down. I was constantly getting my accounts deleted, frozen, limited or suspended. I would end up with hundreds of dollars worth of inventory that I can't sell. Hell, I still have a **** load of un opened box set's, flat irons and chanel purses (from years ago) , nike shoes and lacoste shirts (i started wearing them lol) I used to find new vero items, do the research and figure I could sell 100 in the next month making me $20,000 easily.. well, after buying 50 units, and listing 5 of them...suspened.. oh yay.. the never ending battle continued... and i got sick and tired of being stressed at never knowing what the heck was gonig to happen the next day.

About a year to a year and a half ago, I had enough.. I went on a quest to find products that I could sell that were non-vero and still had a good enough margin to make me a few thousand a month.

What I have discovered is that it is NOT hard to find niches that you can compete in non vero and do well.


What I do is find a niche, find a manufacturer (someone who can actually make the product customized for me) and then resell it on ebay.

That's what I've been doing, and that's what works. Last year I claimed 36k from ebay alone, this will be more for sure.

Of course, every now and then I get the random supplier email with the latest and greatest bootlegs, and it's kinda fun to go through no and then, almost like an old addiction i'm fighting.. but at the end of the day, i know it won't last and it will only leave me hanging.

So my question and challenge is to someof you guys who have a well established risky vero business going on.. why don't you try to venture off vero and going legit? The amount of time you put into vero can be used a better way..

Hitch

Define how you are applying the term 'VERO'.

I have a feeling, you already know. But just incase you don't... selling boot leg, knockoffs, selling copyrighted crap without the permission of the copyright owner.

Then you are misusing the term. VERO is NOT a synonym for imitation.

VERO is selling the real thing when that real thing is protected by licensing.

A person could be a registered seller of VERO and list items without penalty.

Selling VERO goods without authorization can lead to complications.

Selling artificial is NOT vero and IS problematic.

Okay my friend, on this board, the term "selling vero" can be synonymous with selling copies, I'm sure you're aware of that.. arent you?

I'm pretty sure that a very overwhelmingly high majority of the people on this board are here due to what goods they sold.:suspicious:

Selling vero as in dvd boxsets is not pointless- it's the easiest way to make money on ebay by far. Other vero items like shoes ans stuff im would never touch, but as for selling dvd's you could easily make £200 - £300 part time. Yes it's high risk and i wouldn't be searching/posting on these forums if it weren't due to previous suspensiobn to ebay, but if your selling the genuine product and it's offical the profit margain can be huge..

the reason why people sell branded/vero products because they are popular, advertised madly.

Most people here seem to be unaware that VERO is a term specific to ebay. The term specifically indicates any genuine product which is protected by a copyright or a trademark - that product being represented by a member of ebays "Verified Right Owner" program.

A genuine product without a representative is not a VeRO item. An imitation of a represented product is not VeRO. Only authentic merchandise represented by a member of VeRO would properly be called a VeRO item. VeRO is not a word, it is an acronym only applicaple on ebay - not anywhere else. It does not designate goods, it designates a person that has been delegated to representing a brand name. VeRO is a person. VeRO Item is the merchandise.

Just because many people misuse a term - does NOT make it correct or proper.

Some of us DO know what VERO means, so when others misuse the term when asking a question, expect to get a wrong answer. I'm growing a bit tired of having to ask people what they mean when they use the term. So, I will always assume the correct definition and if the person asking happens to be misusing the term and gets an answer from me that doesn't fit their situation - too bad.

Is your Ford Taurus a motorcycle? If 90 people called it a motorcycle, does that mean you own a motorcycle? If I keep calling it an automobile, does that make me wrong? My perspective is that I'd be the one-eyed king in a village full of blind nimrods.

Being an authorized VERO seller is profitable. Being unauthorized is profitable but sporadic. Selling imitation cut-rate goods will generate an immediate income but likely end up costing more than was gained, due to refunds, lost merchandise, and down-time.

Selling imitation is NOT VERO.

"Selling vero" is not synonymous with selling copies. If you mean to say "selling copies" - then say "selling copies". If you say vero, mean it.

Vero means one thing only. It is misused by most here and erroneous. I'm aware of the error and the misuse. I'm aware that when I have answered questions relating to vero (me answering based on the true definition and askers using the word wrong) prompts some people to become upset when they misunderstand and/or misapply my answers.

Perhaps people using the term 'vero' improperly could start using the term 'vake' instead?

I have never heard better explanation of what Vero is! Good job Vic!:thumb:

The OP (Hitch) makes some VERY GOOD points.

And I don't think the issue of his thread was meant to be the definition of the word "VeRO".

He is just pointing out there are ways to make money on eBay without take-down worries. I think this is a good thread topic and gives some of us something to think about.

Maybe the title should have been...

Why waste your time with VeRO take-down worries.

Been considering changing the thread title myself. Inclined to go with 'Why choose take-down items to sell?'

Both the OP & vicvelcro have valid info. Agree with Hitch on what one can pick to sell. Think that the definition by vic' is great too :thumb:

That would be proper title for this thread GB!, thanks! I agree, OP's point of view could open eyes for some....Sometimes we don't see "a tree from the forest". It's in human nature.

I agree with selling certain items where the Vero Members on ebay go nuts and violate everyone. A seller has been in that situation before. Receiving 200PCs and after selling the 5th one, BOOM MC0019. It was a fight to get rid of them all.

Another alternative is to find items where there are no Vero Members that report and go all out with them. And or contacting the REAL owners and starting up an account with them. It usually requires a Business ID number. Most of us already have them though.

To defeat an enemy or surmount an obstacle, one must understand who and what the enemy is or the nature of the obstacle.



Back to the main topic, though.

I wasn't trying to put hitch down in any way. I only wanted to be clear about what VeRO is before the thread went 2 different directions inobviously. Hitch, if you had the impression you were being 'pressed', I apologize. That wasn't my intention at all.

I think the original topic as intended is worth posting/discussing and at the same time, I think the thread would be pretty much self-explanatory if the proper definitions were applied. The OP meant one thing but was saying another thing entirely. The choice of words was based on misinterpretation mainly caused by the rampant misuse of verbiage. No blame to hitch. Was only trying to understand exactly what we would be discussing here. It turned into a bit of another discussion.

[REAL VeRO Items]
Why would somebody be interested in selling VeRO items? The free advertising and the pre-existing market demand.

[VAKE]
I have no idea why most people pursue this angle. Some sellers (small %) are proficient at all the technique and tricks to make it work profitably. Most fail repeatedly (huge %), but continue to succumb to the lure of 'easy money' (huge %). --- doesn't exactly look easy to me and isn't for the faint of heart. My advice is for anyone that has failed after two attempts: give up. My words to those who have pulled it off successfully: congratulations and good luck.

In my experience listing vero, or even pake items is like trading FOREX (on the foreign exchange market - selling/buying money, etc.) If you want to survive you have to study the markets for days on end, studying selling, takedown, and competitor listing rates per hour/day/week/month, etc. To excel well in this field you must be able to analyse when and where to make your move, enter the market, make your profit, and get out at the right time; simply guessing when to list, where, and how is not enough. You must also study demand in proportion to risk (of takedown), and choose which items/areas to list, and wisely. So obviously if you want to pursue this path you have to decide if you want to put in the effort...

With trading FOREX more than 90% (maybe stats have changed) fail as they lack disciple and control. This is similar to eBay where new sellers are overwhelmed or allured by their underwhelming greed that spawns from vero items, and moreover pakes; and their eye-popping prospective profit margins attached to them.

I don't know why I used FOREX trading as an analogy, but the recurring truth is that when dealing with VERO items or pakes, for a short period of time you could be as happy as a one legged lezo on a pogo stick, but ultimately there is the underlying risk of you suffering SIGNIFICANT LOSSES even the very next day; without warning of course, due to the unpredictability of the market, your competitors, and vero members and their takedown times.

E.g. You sell a few of a certain item, you make bank. Thinking wisely (or greedily for that matter) you decide to invest a large portion of your money into that same item or field. But there is always the risk of: What if I get suspended tommorrow? What can I do with all this stock? If I get suspended/restricted, etc. will I be able to shift these items easily, and in a reasonable timeframe? Despite the obvious ability to create stealth accounts, they obvious require further investment and maintenance (financially), and having to relist and reword your listing AFTER you have waited 30 or so days after the account creation is both time consuming, and depressing, especially when eBay stabs that same dagger in your heart when you get them pulled down again, causing you to repeat the process over and over again until you shift all your stock. Even then greed might take over again as you get used to stealth account usage, but with VERO and obvious pake items, that underlying risk is always there, and it will never go away. Generally your market/niche will never cooldown, decrease in competitors, or vero takedowns, in fact the opposite usually occurs, as more competitors notice your niche and enter it, attracting more heat from vero members, and thus more takedowns.

Here in Australia, many days I see obvious past-eBay sellers desperately attempting to offload their 'goods' on liquidator, wholesale, or low-exposure auction site alternatives, or even local ad sites. (Haha Craigslist....=) You got to think of the depressing, 'what if' situations too..'

So after all that, I think a reasonable conclusion is to avoid VERO; in particular high-priced goods, or low-priced but high quantity goods. Also of course avoid pakes as eventually your empire will crumble as you will penultimately deal with that select few who specialise in pake detection, or decide to chase the warranty or returns policy with the pake item's respective manufacturer/dealer, only to discover it being pake.

But if you sell VERO, or even pake for that matter, my only obvious tip I can give is to ebay search the brand AND the specific item you wish to sell over a reasonable period of a day/week/month? depending on the popularity or heat (vero member monitoring level) on the item, and obviously if there are little to no listings, or its always new listings, then you're entering a high risk zone, and needlessly throwing away your policy compliancy second chance cards.

Hehe, my 2 cents. Peace.

Well said. One thing you and I both have neglected to mention:

The predatorial buyers who watch for sellers of certain goods so that they can make a purchase then claim SNAD or other issue which they can use to justify a dispute leading to a refund AND keep the goods.

Quite a few here have felt that pain but never seem to learn a lesson, which creates a stealth-user-reboot-loop (I just now made up that term). The lure draws them back like a bad gambling habit. They wash-out then come back for more, always hoping this time will be the time it goes over without a catch. But it never changes.

For some small few who are savvy enough and crafty enough, their successes mislead many to believe they have what it takes too.

Yay for people that are proficient in what they do. Boo to those who never wise up and keep repeating a failure. Some just never figure out that not everyone is good at everything. Each of us sucks bad at something. Each one of us should try to recognize what our respective something is, and be wise enough to leave it alone.

the vero items you sold i would never touch,,there are quite a few vero items that are pretty good..how does one expect to last long selling purses? or ****ty flat irons? all depends what you sell and how greedy the person is

greedy + vero = not goin to last long

Okay, I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you Vicvelcro, it's not really worth my time. However, I find it funny how several other people, even one that you praised, use the term "vero" synonymous with selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ crap.


I sold purses back in 2005/2006.. I had about a 1 1/2 month run selling them, made several G's then I got a phone call from Chanel USA, how they got my personal phone number still boggles me.

In terms of the flat irons, I wouldnt call them ****ty.. as my GF still uses one and it works just about the same as her authentic one.


The point of this thread is very simple and flipstardirect said it best in his post.

If you want to survive you have to study the markets for days on end, studying selling, takedown, and competitor listing rates per hour/day/week/month, etc. To excel well in this field you must be able to analyse when and where to make your move, enter the market, make your profit, and get out at the right time; simply guessing when to list, where, and how is not enough. You must also study demand in proportion to risk (of takedown), and choose which items/areas to list, and wisely. So obviously if you want to pursue this path you have to decide if you want to put in the effort...

You can apply that strategy, and build a bullet proof business in which you won't have to worry about ebay , paypal , copyright owners coming after you. Trust me, I know what it takes to sell ⊗⊗⊗⊗ **** successfully.. You name it, I've sold it.. or contemplated on selling it.

However, when I decided to shift my focus from selling crap that was going to risk my accounts to focusing on building an actual busienss that ensured longevity, my stress went down and my profit margin stayed about the same. Not to mention, I've been using the same account now for months with zero issues.

There was no pissing contest and probably won't be. Read post 14 just below the quote box.

I can respect anyone, even if they misuse a term. At the same time, I can attempt to correct a misuse of verbiage. I do it to my 16 year old brother all the time, and he's one of the coolest people I know. There is no contradiction.

I like most everything YOU say and have respect for you in general. I think it's sorta kindergardenish for somebody to be clearly apprised of an error yet they INSIST on continuing to make the error, mostly because of EGO. Whenever you or anyone else misuses the term, I'll just read what you say as though you were smart and I'll provide smart answers. If you translate my info based on your misuse, oh well.

I'm completely with you as regards people migrating from VaKE goods to authentic items and/or non-VeRO items. There's plenty of stuff out there to work with. I'm also in favor of people becoming authorized sellers of VeRO items.

I can't imagine HOW you've misunderstood what I have been saying. Perhaps you might re-read my posts WITHOUT your attitude being turned on full blast.

the next person who mentions the meaning of vero will get a smacked bottom and be sent to bed....I mean it..

agreed, its a real stress selling counterfeit goods, even to people who know what they are and want them cos of the price...

moving to other types of goods can be just as lucrative, its just harder and takes longer to research, trial and error and the financial outlay initially is alot more...Im proud to say Ive almost completely ditched the u know whats now, I started with them because fashion was something I knew about to start off with...

people, especially youngsters want these goods though and I have no problem with those that sell them, apart from when they price them very high or actually put in the listing they are authentic or make receipts etc, I thought about doing this at one stage and decided that was not fair...If you leave it up to the buyer to decide and compare they usually know what they are getting, and if they dont they are stupid, something that is priced at a too good to be true price usually is, especially if you compare and shop around...

Hey oompa ------> VeRO means something. Where's my spanking?

^^^Canned for the moment ;)

oh did I say spanking , I meant spamming....

Years ago (5+) ago I was browsing eBAY to get a sci-fi TV series that is no longer available from the manufacturer - out of print they call it. I did not know this was the case, and thinking price would be a good indication of quality, I browsed collections available. Bought one for 240$, received it at home... it was a horrible product. Screamed bootleg. That's when I got the idea to try an eBay business. Made my own copies of the copies, and tried to sell it. Wow, it worked.

After a few weeks I realized there was a niche for that - but the copies were so horrible, I was surprise not everyone returned them, some even really loved them. Maybe I am difficult (ok, I'm totally anal about video/audio quality, own audiophile earphones, etc...) went on Amazon, bought all original boxsets of the series (costing me 875$), re-designed all covers myself, professionally, and in a sense, manufactured my own high quality bootlegs. I kid you not, they looked so authentic and the quality was so good I could have fooled myself. None in my family would ever have considered it a bootleg unless you inspected the DVD content and knew what to look for. The quality of the audio and video was identical.

So I started selling that series (my version), with a premium of 100$ over the terrible bootleg I had been fooled by. And oh boy, did it work. Even people who knew the series was out of print and knew they'd buy a bootleg, writing me back, saying "I know this is a bootleg, but it's a damn fine one". Unlike the other, where I had a few returns and such, this one earned me quite a bit of money, even repaying all the initial cost of the equipment to make them. At the time I had started this as a necessity to pay tuition and such, and after a few years, I stopped. Not because it wasn't selling well, but because it was time consuming. It takes time to make a quality product, and if you cheap out somewhere, you'll pay the price eventually.

Of course this required some heavy technical expertise to do, but the fact is, Hitch is right: if you look, you CAN find something lucrative stuff to sell. I got the idea by being fooled myself, and then taking the idea someone had, and made it better. The asshole who originally sold me his copies even tried to shut me down once - took him 3 years before he succeeded.

However, in my book, if you don't expect to do some actual work, you cannot expect to make good money. I did good money because I invested hundreds of hours in preparing and designing the best product I could, and taking care in the reproduction process. Buying ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or copies from some wholesale china suppliers and trying to resell them on eBAY might be easy, but it'll get you down eventually. Nobody could shut ME down based on ⊗⊗⊗⊗ accusations - whereas the bootleg -I- had bought were known bootlegs (if you researched), mine had art never before seen, and looked so professional, the believed it was a R3 official release like I said it was... because I took CARE in the making.

Eventually I moved on to other legit things. I felt guilty for selling copies, even if I did my best to offer the best product, a product they could not get anywhere, but even then, I knew it was wrong. Eventually my competitors started to offer the same original bootleg I had bought for even more than what I was selling mine - and buyers still bought their product. Pissed me off at first, but then I realized, after bookmarking all of those sellers - all 9 of them were shutdown eventually, probably due to all those negs they were getting. Try to be TOO greedy and cheap out on your buyers, you WILL pay the price in stress, hours of sleep, money and possibly tears.

The moral of the story:
Don't be lazy. Offer the best customer service you can. You sell copies and someone wants a refund? Don't be an ass, you didn't fool this one. Refund him his money once he returned the product. Not worth the attention or negative feedback.

Above all, do your research correctly, be vigilant, and never bite off more than you can chew.

I will tell you the best ranges I have are things i bought for myself, and then decided to sell...

ive it once and ill say it again..there are quite a few vero items that are good enough to sell,i personally think anyone trying to last long selling purses..clothes and electronics are just not going to last at all

and a bit of advice for someone selling anything vero...have the best customer service as possible and if someone wants a refund,dont argue with them..what i do is ill either offer a full refund or ill offer a partial refund of 30-50%(depending on the item) and they will take this offer most of the time while i still profit

its not like im selling vero for a career or anything,for a year or two is fine,plus if i dont sell certain things,someone else will and with stealth accounts...why the F not

You make it sound easy to find things to sell that are not vero, but it's not that simple. I am not one of those people to make quick and irrational decisions. I research until I'm blue in the face, and then do some more. I still have yet to find something to sell that does not have a registered vero member on ebay. I'm to the point where I will gladly pay for information to successfully start me in the right direction, because the research I do is cutting so much into my family time. I work a regular job during the day so I do my research while my family is wishing I were in the living room with them. It's hard.

Another keeper add to the knowledge... You guys are great!

I'm in this boat

I just simply can't find non-copied items to sell on eBay without having $50-100g in startup for inventory from suppliers

Ya'll should have known ebayhateluv. She had 6 kids & did very very well with ebay. The words 'can not' were not in her vocabularty :peace:

She must have left just about the time I signed on, so I am sorry I didn't get the chance to get to know her better... but I did read and benefit from some of her posts. I hope she considers coming back one day. I know people here miss her.

And youll usually sell them better than most because you know more about the product. There was another post around saying that sellers who knew what they were talking about when selling sold for a good percentage more than other sellers who just put the item up with a paragraph description.

A seller was looking to do legitimate wholesale business when stuck in a low paying job. The seller couldnt get out of the job for at least a few years so they beared it out.

The seller then did some research and ordered products that had an amazing resale value. They couldn't believe how lucky they were to find such a resource for low prices items.

While the item was in transit, they did a little more research and found out the items that were on their way were probably ⊗⊗⊗⊗. The seller at the time would never have thought they would even copy items like that. *Boy have times changed on that thought now*

So the sellers mind frame had to change to get these items sold. The seller found this site not too long after. And things have been moving great since. Vero opened the sellers eyes to a lot of things. It has helped the seller quite a lot. Found a lot of new hobbies, and have had a lot of fun in the process.

vero copy items;
pros ; typically 100% - 1000% profit, lower outlay, easy to source.

cons ;takedowns, refunds from buyers, customs issues, suspensions and accounts waiting until alert has passed, risk of legal action.

non vero items are more like 20%-80% profit, the outlay is usually high, but I disagree that you have to spend thousands..start with x 2 samples and see if they sell well and the profit is worth it, then you can make an order for double that and sell and so on..never risk more than you can afford to lose...
doesnt mean though that you escape competitors or paypal limitation clutches, thats a delight that everyone has to endure..

the reason I am selling things originally bought for myself, is purely that I hate to take a risk or waste money, so on a few occasions I saw something that i would like to own, bought it, tested it and tried to sell it, knowing that if it sold, I would buy another for myself, plus a few extra to sell again. If it didnt sell for what I wanted, no biggie I would keep it for myself plus I knew it wasnt a good product to sell, cant lose that way..

Why not do research on the items before you decide to purchase and sell on ebay? That way there isn't much of a risk at all. No need to purchase samples, etc...

Use the completed listings tool in ebay, does wonders. When you use that tool, check to see who purchased the item and see if they have some feedback or not. If they do, more than likely they paid for it. But if they have 0 feedback, they may not have paid for it.

Hopefully this helps!

yes, I mean I wouldnt bother selling anything that I didnt think would sell for a good profit. I look at what others sell and their feedback. What I am trying to say is that I havent ever bought stuff just to sell, I have always known that if it didnt sell as successfully as I planned, I wanted item anyway, and this has worked for me and made it a more relaxing experience..

I like your ways Ooompa, as that is how I started selling on Ebay myself and it worked for me most of the times. I would be scared on filling up my garage with tons of stock items I wouldn't know if and when they sell.. I favor few more expencive items with couple of hundred profit each over dozens of auctions with 20-100 in profits...Cuts down on number of auctions as well....but thats just me.

I've been thinking the same thing but still vero is one of the best ways to come up with some quick start up cash. I was making a killing dropshipping box sets just got my powerseller status and then boom banned from 2 ebay accounts and 2 paypal. At least I managed to snag it all out of the ATM except I was 10 min. too slow to get the last $500. Now I'm up and running again should have over 100 feedback by next week buying under a dollar ebooks. Once I get enough to make myself comfortable I'll be looking for something more legit but I have a feeling the desire to sell this stuff will always be there.

Hi:

Would you happen to know if there is a list somewhere of items that would be subject to a takedown right away even if the item is 100% legitimate? I've heard that some companies will take down ebay listings even if they are legitimate & noninfringing because they don't want their stuff being sold on eBay.

Thanks

I don't think there is a list you just have to learn with experience, if a listing gets removed you can just simply switch to another account and try another item for awhile or reword the listing. As for me I've been selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ everyday on the same stealth account for over a month and haven't had a single listing removed and have %100 positive feedback also have other accounts with over 10 feedback, over 30 days old just waiting for me to switch over when the time comes.

there is no such list, but there are more heavy active rights owners out there, or their reporters, plus it varies from site to site, on my European accounts, there are brands I cannot sell or they will come down instantly, but I can sell them in UK, weird.