PayPal holds - including dreaded 21 Day Hold

[imjustme]

I called PayPal today, both in the US and in Singapore (their headquarters for the Asian region) and both operators I spoke to claim they know nothing about the upcoming (March 2008) 21 days payment hold that eBay has announced. Isn't that strange? Also note how PayPal has not sent any announcement either to their customers about this new policy. Aren't they supposed to announce this at least a month ahead, which would be around today or tomorrow?

[thelizardking]

This thread is about using Paypal holding funds for 21 days to our advantage and other ways to move away from Paypal and get customers away from Paypal. It would be nice if everyone would move away from Paypal but we all know sellers have to accept it as payment and buyers are brainwashed into thinking its the only way to pay.

The idea I had is using this 21 day hold as a way to get customers to pay another way. If this goes into effect March 2008, and im assuming on the 1st, this is something I would send to customers starting in a week or so.

"Paypal now holds money for 21 days to clear. If Paypal is used as payment item will not ship until funds are released (up to 21 days). To pay more easily and securely use Google Checkout with your credit or debit card to receive Same Day Priority Shipping with Tracking Number or send a money order to...."

Nobody wants to wait 3 weeks for their item. What you really want is your customer to email you questions directly, unless they have used your merchant account type before, they will most likely have some questions and concerns. You could use this as a platform to illuminate the buyer on why Paypal sucks but I wouldn't. You don't really wanna draw too much attention to Paypal because a customer might get fearful especially if they ignorantly trust Paypal. I seriously think anti-depressant usage will go up when people find out how ⊗⊗⊗⊗ their sacred Paypal is. Make it be about the 21 days you could say something like "You are welcome to pay via Paypal but your package will not be shipped for 21 days due to their new policy."

Additionally praise your merchant account a little, be proud that you offer a better, faster, and easier way to accept payments. Give them any info about your merchant account that will make it easier for them. A "how to" and maybe include, in a subtle way, a feature your merchant account has that Paypal doesn't. Maybe even offer an incentive to use your merchant account. Shipping discounts, additional items, etc..

What happens if they do pay via Paypal?
Immediately refund them and email them again. If they missed it the first time they won't miss a refund. Make sure that they understand that the item will take up to a month if they resend the payment.

If they still insist on Paypal?
You will most likely have to ship out the item as normal. Even if you told them it will take a month doesn't mean they won't file a claim. Paypal doesn't care what your policies are, only theirs, and you don't want the attention of a claim. I think its after 7 days they can file.

I like the idea being talked about of buying gift cards on ebay using your Paypal funds. You can use a gift card to buy gas, food, cigarettes, beer, pay bills, clothes, anywhere visa or master card is accepted...if your going to the strip club or buying black market Viagra you might want to check out a route to get a card you can pull cash from like Greendot. Read the thread New way to liquidate a paypal account by savahaganda on this forum. I haven't tried this yet but it sounds like a good idea. Luckily tho I wait tables and make tips so buying gift cards is a great way for me.

The idea is to get customers to use Paypal as little as possible. Some are definitely going to. If you only have a few you are withdrawing less from Paypal and cause less suspicion. But im not waiting 21 days each time I withdraw then on top of that take a chance on getting limited on the 20th day. Then waiting 6 months for it to be released. We all know there are customers who make you think “man what an idiot” but in my experience buyers just want the product. In my opinion a merchant account with Google Checkout would be the one to go with. Sellers love it and who doesn't know about Google? I think customers will feel better with the name Google on it. Use it to your advantage.

Please include any way that you use to get buyers to pay with something else. I have gained years of experience in customer service and sales in different jobs so persuading a customer comfortably is a skill I have worked on and am good at. Each customer is different so you have to change it up a little. But I realize some sellers need some advise on how to deal with customers, questions, and concerns so post some tips if you have some. Also post any good excuses you use on customers. Remember if they want to use Paypal they just don't realize whats good for them and secretly us.

Want to find out which merchant account is right for you?
Search the board, there is more than enough info out there or look up aspkins Alternatives To Paypal guide in the members area.

[LongMan]

Some great ideas here, the problem I see is that eBay may pull your listing for including a phrase like "You are welcome to pay via Paypal but your package will not be shipped for 21 days due to their new policy".

AND if you don't include it and tell a buyer afterwards of it, some might go mental and neg you right there and then...

[ebayhateluv]

Fantastic Post, Lizard!
-- I tell my customers, 'I have a Regular RETAIL Merchant Account", like Walmart, Sears, and NOT a Personal Paypal acct..
* This always gets them for me.. Currently I'm forcing them to ccnow, so with Google, they already trust it, I dont think you"ll have the hurdle i do...

[thelizardking]

Originally Posted by LongMan

Some great ideas here, the problem I see is that eBay may pull your listing for including a phrase like "You are welcome to pay via Paypal but your package will not be shipped for 21 days due to their new policy".

AND if you don't include it and tell a buyer afterwards of it, some might go mental and neg you right there and then...

Yeah thats the tricky part, I would definately not add it to the listing, but you can put "Shipping could take up to 3 weeks in some cases. Email for details."

Something like that but I wouldn't use that phrase in a listing only for an email. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[aspkin]

Good post, lots of good info here. Thanks Lizard King!

[aspkin]

Where is this information located? I'd like to check it out.

[Ballsack]

Is this hold on funds, a hold on the ability to withdraw or a complete freeze of your funds??

[sycore]

That can not possibly be on every account, probably just new or high volume problem accounts. If it is for everyone, just put in your ad, "Since paypal now holds funds for 21 days, items will not ship until payment is released."

Like I said, it would kill ebay, if they did that, so i doubt it is for many accounts.

[ebayhateluv]

I understand it to be merely a New Fraud Preventative Issue.. They will hold the funds, as ccnow does, and some card issuers until they build trust in you + you getting your goods out..
--- It will not really affect me, (Im used to a 15-45 day wait with ccnow)--
* My kids just wont get New tennies every week, they'l have to get them every 3 weeks )

[Chris Hanson]

Originally Posted by sycore

That can not possibly be on every account, probably just new or high volume problem accounts. If it is for everyone, just put in your ad, "Since paypal now holds funds for 21 days, items will not ship until payment is released."

Like I said, it would kill ebay, if they did that, so i doubt it is for many accounts.

I heard its on accounts with 100 or less feedback

[Jonas]

Couldn't one of the third party services that let you funnel paypal through them let you bypass the 21 days?

[ebayhateluv]

Never thought about that.. Good idea, Jonas..
But, the only one I'm aware of is ccnow, and their min is 15 days, unless you get the ship dates/pay dates down pat...
You can manipulate to a certain extent...

[Ballsack]

Well then that's a killer because everyone starts off with zero feedback. I wonder if it still applies if you send payment requests under 'goods'.

[imjustme]

Yeah, they say unless your account is 6+ months old AND you have 100+ feedback, they may hold the money. Usually in PayPal's terms "may" means "will".

What I find funny is that they claim that less than 5% of sellers are affected, therefor they are saying that less than 5% of sellers have less than 100 feedback? And 95% of sellers have 100+ feedback? That's BULL POOP.

If they do indeed hold everyone's funds that has less than 100 feedback, they will be in big trouble. Complaints will come from everywhere and their grandma's arse.

[thelizardking]

I guess I was assuming with ccnow it would be the 21 days + 45 days at first then 21 days + 15 days after that.

[koalawash]

Doesn't Paypal charge you a fee to send refunds?

[sycore]

I guess we will all know very soon, but if they go through with it, it changes the very foundation of ebay's clear out your garage and make a few buck origins, and changed it to the only sellers left are the huge Chinese resellers.

[Ballsack]

No way. I'm still wondering if "hold" means paypal completely freezes your funds or it just means they prevent from withdrawing to a bank.

[ebayhateluv]

Hi:
I'm Thinking they place a temporary freeze on those funds associated with the item in Question,
--sorta like the bank when they place a hold on an out of state check...
(just my thoughts)

[imjustme]

If after the 21 days you can withdraw the funds WITHOUT being limited, that is a great change. However if after 21 days you have $1000 in the account, try to withdraw $800 and still get limited, that just sucks.

[imjustme]

So eBay is saying they won't hold the payment if you have 20+ feedback AND 4.5 average on the DSR (detailed seller rating). Currently the DSR system has 4 different categories for rating.

They're also saying that they will start introducing a 5th category for rating with the changes. So that means even if you have 5.0 for each of the current 4 categories, when they introduce the 5th, you will have:

5.0
5.0
5.0
5.0
0.0

That sums it up to 20.00, divided by 5 is an average of 4.0, right? That means EVERYONE will have their funds held, because they don't average the over 4.5 needed to have their funds released early.

Am I getting this right?

[Chris Hanson]

^^Yes sirrrr

[hepper65]

You will need at least 20 participants to get a score in the 5th category so I dont think that would be considered

[thelizardking]

Originally Posted by imjustme

If after the 21 days you can withdraw the funds WITHOUT being limited

That would be vey nice.

[simogold]

hi:
i am just wondering if any of new seller here has faced this hold or no for the new rule?
i created a new ebay account like 10 days ago and i was able to sell 3 items without PayPal by refunding the payment back and convince the buyer to accept GC. my question is : do you guys (new seller) face any hold on the funds before you try to withdraw your money?
thank you

[mantisinc]

Can't say I have. Aren't the changes coming in may?

[arysmith]

I have noticed that on all my new accounts, PayPal puts some type of hold whether they require phone verification or account limit.

Originally Posted by simogold

hi:
i am just wondering if any of new seller here has faced this hold or no for the new rule?
i created a new ebay account like 10 days ago and i was able to sell 3 items without PayPal by refunding the payment back and convince the buyer to accept GC. my question is : do you guys (new seller) face any hold on the funds before you try to withdraw your money?
thank you

[sdot10]

Just had a new account that i found hadnt been suspended. When I went to list an item put in my ⊗⊗⊗⊗ paypal and such like normal and this time I got a disclaimer that talks about how paypal can hold your funds for 21 days blah blah, that whole thing. I couldnt find any info on the forums through searching so I was trying to see if this has happened to anyone yet. I heard this was supposed to take place in like may or something.

[imjustme]

Never got anything yet..

[mantisinc]

Nope, haven't heard anyone that this has happened to as of yet.

[topazcorp]

What are you selling? They only hold your funds for certain kind of goods...

BTW nice pic imjustme

[TMiles2564]

This 21 day hold is part of the EBAY revisions in Feb. 2008. It only applies to people with less than 100 feedbacks, and only in certain high risk categories. They started this at the same time they changed the feedback policy. Acutionbytes.com has an excellent article about this new procedure and all the specifics as to whom it applies.....

[sdot10]

Yeah its for a laptop. I was actually trying to get all this inventory sold before that stupid date so i was just asking if anyone else has seen it or had it happen. Its not saying it will happen just that it can.

[Ballsack]

I just saw this when I listed an item on ebay. I forsee even further restrictions beyond this.

Because of your limited transaction history on eBay, you must offer PayPal or a merchant credit card as a payment method for this listing. PayPal is the safer, easier way to receive payments on eBay.
Learn more about the eBay Accepted Payments Policy.
Some payments may be held in your account to ensure smooth transactions. PayPal will release the hold after 21 days without a buyer dispute, claim, chargeback or other action. The hold may be released earlier if either of the following occurs:

* Buyer leaves positive Feedback.
* 3 days after PayPal confirms item delivery.

Learn more about PayPal's Holds Policy.

[aspkin]

A dead end but necessary at times when that items requires it...

[TotallyDisgusted]

A friend of mine called me earlier & stated that just received that same 21-day hold. Not sure of all the details because she was on a real good rant about it but did clearly hear that PP will hold her funds for 21-days; she just got done listing her last item. Will get details from her when she is more calm.

[jscan]

ah what a joke

[Jonas]

Does eBay allow you to say "if payment is held 21 days, I don't ship for 21 days. I also offer these other payment options" ???

[ytl]

thats a good idea Jonas. I wonder how long one might get away with saying that