Amazon Confiscated Gift Card - My Legal Viewpoint

[futbolplayer]

I highly doubt Amazon would have any legal grounding should someone pursue the legal avenue regarding their confiscated gift card balances. I would go further and sue in small claims court and ask the magistrate for treble damages as relief as a part of most State's Civil Theft Statue. Amazon has no right to steal your gift card balance for whatever reason, despite what their terms and conditions say. For example, If you lost $500.00 in gift cards for a purchase, I would ask for $1,500.00 from the magistrate as relief.

This is just my legal opinion but I believe it to be highly accurate. Amazon has no way of proving "fraud" or "resale activity" to a court. Amazon has a legal case they cannot prove. Additionally, you are not legally required to give out your personal information while shopping online. It is a valid reason to shop stealth for privacy. This is just my opinion..

[DocumentRequest]

So do something about it. 99.9% are all talk. Most large companies dont even send someone to small claims to fight it.

[rsot]

Good luck futbolplayer - post the update as you go along

[futbolplayer]

Fraud? What types of fraud do people on here commit?

[phaz0rz]

Originally Posted by futbolplayer

Fraud? What types of fraud do people on here commit?

- Identity theft
- Tax related
- Retail (either stealing and reselling, selling phakes, or buying legit items from stores then returning a phake and selling the legit one)
- Mail (above items shipped in mail)
- Wire (fraudulent info transmitted electronically)

I'm not involved in any of those things but it's pretty obvious that parts of the forum are. Probably a few more types of fraud too.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by tinsoldier

You must be having a giraffe!

Even those who aren't committing fraud will almost certainly be acting against Amazons (Prime) terms and conditions. Tax evasion is another gimme.

I'll have a wager with you (you do like a wager don't you) that nobody here, including you, will take amazon to court over a frozen gift card.

I think this is the problem. It's not criminal or fraudulent, its that Amazon has terms of service being violated. In those terms it states that cards being bought and used for anything other than personal use or your prime accounts being used to ship as part of a business transaction are violating the amazon agreement. You'd lose the case just due to your violating of Amazon terms.

So, when some users here get judgmental about gift cards or using amazon as a supplier for their business, technically every here is violating Amazon's terms of service just by the very concept of stealth accounts.

[futbolplayer]

Breaking terms of conditions not does allow for a company to steal your money — not a valid legal defense

[futbolplayer]

Amazon has every right to terminate your account. They do not have that same luxury when it comes to your gift cards. First, gift cards never expire. Second, Amazon can never prove fraud or resale activity. Third, you are not required to shop online in your real name. As such, Amazon will lose a case like this and be forced to pay you back should you take the time and effort to pursue legally. I am not a lawyer but a lawyer could not give you a definite answer and I have read a lot on this topic.

[futbolplayer]

This is a legal grey area that Amazon is taking advantage of b/c they can. I view it as follows. If Amazon wants to steal money from me, I feel no obligation to abide by their terms. They will break the law and steal, why would I ever follow their terms after such an event. Amazons offense is much more serious than mine. Finally, many judges claim users never agree to terms and conditions conditionally, rather they user must have opt in via a checkbox for terms to be binding.

Amazon states you cannot scrape their website in their terms. This is a load of bs and Amazon knows they cannot enforce it. Just because it’s in terms doesn’t mean it’s legally binding or LEGAL in the first place.

[futbolplayer]

No, someone made the assertion that since you violated terms Amazon is in their right to steal. False, there is so much wrong with this logic. I am telling people their rights in case they want to get their money back. I will sue and report back once I lose sufficient gift card balance.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by futbolplayer

Amazon has every right to terminate your account. They do not have that same luxury when it comes to your gift cards. First, gift cards never expire. Second, Amazon can never prove fraud or resale activity. Third, you are not required to shop online in your real name. As such, Amazon will lose a case like this and be forced to pay you back should you take the time and effort to pursue legally. I am not a lawyer but a lawyer could not give you a definite answer and I have read a lot on this topic.

I understand what you mean and I am inclined to agree with you. Actually pressing the matter may be difficult. Does it matter if the gift cards say they are invalidated by being bought 3rd party or pre-scratched?

[munkron]

The problem is even if you were legitimate when Amazon steals your money you have little recourse. You can sue them, but taking them to court over small amounts will cost you more in time and money.

I've spoken to many people who specialize in Amazon arbitration, and under $10k it's not even worth it. They win 99% of the time, but when you are owed $5k, and gotta pay $13k in fee's, whose gonna take Amazon to court.

[futbolplayer]

Who are these people who specialized in arbitration? Citation of sources please. Small claims court cost $50

[futbolplayer]

So long as you have receipts to prove ownership in court you will have a strong case. I also recommend people start doing chargeback claims when they bought their own GCs w/ CC. Amazon is such an incredibly greedy corporation, people should not put up with their malfeasance.

[WEI]

101% not gonna happen, sadly.

[treyallover]

Educate yourself. Get off of this site and start with the company's terms of service.

DISPUTES
Any dispute or claim relating in any way to your use of any Amazon Service, or to any products or services sold or distributed by Amazon or through Amazon.com will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement.

There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award on an individual basis the same damages and relief as a court (including injunctive and declaratory relief or statutory damages), and must follow the terms of these Conditions of Use as a court would.

To begin an arbitration proceeding, you must send a letter requesting arbitration and describing your claim to our registered agent Corporation Service Company, 300 Deschutes Way SW, Suite 304, Tumwater, WA 98501. The arbitration will be conducted by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) under its rules, including the AAA's Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes. The AAA's rules are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879. Payment of all filing, administration and arbitrator fees will be governed by the AAA's rules. We will reimburse those fees for claims totaling less than $10,000 unless the arbitrator determines the claims are frivolous. Likewise, Amazon will not seek attorneys' fees and costs in arbitration unless the arbitrator determines the claims are frivolous. You may choose to have the arbitration conducted by telephone, based on written submissions, or in person in the county where you live or at another mutually agreed location.

We each agree that any dispute resolution proceedings will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, consolidated or representative action. If for any reason a claim proceeds in court rather than in arbitration we each waive any right to a jury trial. We also both agree that you or we may bring suit in court to enjoin infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by futbolplayer

So long as you have receipts to prove ownership in court you will have a strong case. I also recommend people start doing chargeback claims when they bought their own GCs w/ CC. Amazon is such an incredibly greedy corporation, people should not put up with their malfeasance.

Proof in the pudding

[munkron]

Originally Posted by treyallover

Educate yourself. Get off of this site and start with the company's terms of service.

DISPUTES
Any dispute or claim relating in any way to your use of any Amazon Service, or to any products or services sold or distributed by Amazon or through Amazon.com will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except that you may assert claims in small claims court if your claims qualify. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement.

There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award on an individual basis the same damages and relief as a court (including injunctive and declaratory relief or statutory damages), and must follow the terms of these Conditions of Use as a court would.

To begin an arbitration proceeding, you must send a letter requesting arbitration and describing your claim to our registered agent Corporation Service Company, 300 Deschutes Way SW, Suite 304, Tumwater, WA 98501. The arbitration will be conducted by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) under its rules, including the AAA's Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes. The AAA's rules are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879. Payment of all filing, administration and arbitrator fees will be governed by the AAA's rules. We will reimburse those fees for claims totaling less than $10,000 unless the arbitrator determines the claims are frivolous. Likewise, Amazon will not seek attorneys' fees and costs in arbitration unless the arbitrator determines the claims are frivolous. You may choose to have the arbitration conducted by telephone, based on written submissions, or in person in the county where you live or at another mutually agreed location.

We each agree that any dispute resolution proceedings will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, consolidated or representative action. If for any reason a claim proceeds in court rather than in arbitration we each waive any right to a jury trial. We also both agree that you or we may bring suit in court to enjoin infringement or other misuse of intellectual property rights.

It's not so simple. Arbitration costs add up, filing fee's, arbitrator fee's, and potentially lawyer fee's.

They claim you get reimbursed if they deem it frivolous, but I've spoken to plenty of lawyers who said a very very small % of the time they force Amazon to pay. Most of the time, you are gonna eat the cost, and Amazon loves it because how many people take them to arbitration. If it was free, everyone would do it.

[munkron]

Originally Posted by futbolplayer

Who are these people who specialized in arbitration? Citation of sources please. Small claims court cost $50

Arbitration and small claims court are different things.

If it's under $10k, small claims is generally recommended.