Amazon automatically sharing info with HMRC from Jan

[chris100]

As with other online platforms Amazon is due to start sharing info with HMRC from Jan.

BBC article here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67855872

Notice they will be sharing tax ID. Does this mean an end to stealth sole trader accounts?
Note sole traders have to provide a unique tax reference to Amazon (private companies do not).

Even if your tax is in order HMRC could come back to Amazon and say the tax reference is false. Account closed. Worse, HMRC may view it as fraud.

Would you risk UK sole trader accounts now? Interesting to see if HMRC are only interested in correct tax being paid (as I understand it) or whether they would have a problem with creative tax details used to open Amazon accounts.

[Freakzilla]

Dude, we have been talking about this for ages.

[chris100]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

Dude, we have been talking about this for ages.

I remember some a while back. Nothing recent on the Amazon discussion.

Any consensus? Anyone going to make UK sole trader accounts after Jan?

[degsey69]

The likelihood of the tax ID not being recognized is significant, however as in the USA there are ways around it which I can not divulge, just think of an imaginative solution.

[Freakzilla]

I think the fact that many of sellers are made up is the bigger issue.

Originally Posted by degsey69

The likelihood of the tax ID not being recognized is significant, however as in the USA there are ways around it which I can not divulge, just think of an imaginative solution.

[Freakzilla]

There has been loads of discussion about it on here mate.

Originally Posted by chris100

I remember some a while back. Nothing recent on the Amazon discussion.

Any consensus? Anyone going to make UK sole trader accounts after Jan?

[chris100]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

I think the fact that many of sellers are made up is the bigger issue.

HMRC won't care if the right tax is paid. They may care about ⊗⊗⊗⊗ tax number and document manipulation.

They may also revert back to Amazon to say the tax number doesn't check out.

[Freakzilla]

I think HMRC will want the right tax paid, and to know why the people don't exist who the marketplaces are supplying them info of.

I'd be more worried of HMRC then Amazon.

Originally Posted by chris100

HMRC won't care if the right tax is paid. They may care about ⊗⊗⊗⊗ tax number and document manipulation.

They may also revert back to Amazon to say the tax number doesn't check out.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

I think HMRC will want the right tax paid, and to know why the people don't exist who the marketplaces are supplying them info of.

I'd be more worried of HMRC then Amazon.

I think they will be looking at turnover first and foremost

and after high turnover sellers have been selected they will be looking at their tax returns

ebay and amazon databases have been open to HMRC for many years , it is actually the smaller marketplaces whose data were not available so that I would not be surprised if they start looking there first

[Freakzilla]

Will they care if the details are stealth if they can see tax has been paid on the earnings? Is this a mechanism to check if a tax return is accurate? Hoe far will they investigate if the details are stealth? Who knows, and we won't know for another year. This is going to be a massive task for them to undertake.

[murdered_by_ebay]

it is possible to investigate anything but eventually there must be a relationship between time/money spent and the potential result

investigating 1000 big sellers is more promising than 100.000 small sellers each of whom have little cashflow und likely small profits with no liability for VAT

[chris100]

I'm sure there will be quite a few people underpaying tax who will be caught.

I'm not sure how many stealthers are actually out there? Maybe quite a few using relatives ID but can't see many people making creative documents.

[jak]

Originally Posted by chris100

HMRC won't care if the right tax is paid. They may care about ⊗⊗⊗⊗ tax number and document manipulation.

They may also revert back to Amazon to say the tax number doesn't check out.

No, They DO care that tax is paid, it is called usury been around for a few thousand years.

They want more CONTROL over people, so you have LESS freedoms such as feudal system. That is why USA is the only FREEDOM in the world!

[degsey69]

So long as a persons ID is not stolen, it is not illegal to have a stealth account, it is against the law not to pay tax, so HMRC will want their money first and foremost from whoever.

[chris100]

Originally Posted by jak

No, They DO care that tax is paid, it is called usury been around for a few thousand years.

They want more CONTROL over people, so you have LESS freedoms such as feudal system. That is why USA is the only FREEDOM in the world!

I think my quote was misinterpreted.

"HMRC don't care if the right tax is paid".... should be read as HMRC don't care as long as the right tax is paid.

[Freakzilla]

Is this correct? Would like to see that stand up in court.

Originally Posted by degsey69

So long as a persons ID is not stolen, it is not illegal to have a stealth account, it is against the law not to pay tax, so HMRC will want their money first and foremost from whoever.

[chris100]

I may be in a position to confirm this in a few weeks. Assisting HMRC at the moment with my tax affairs.
I will report back to say whether they are only interested in tax.

[Mr_Blue_Sky]

What do we do if selling platforms start managing their 'returns' to HMRC via National Insurance numbers as suggested on another thread?

Seems to me that, going forward, private sellers and sole traders are going to be on thin ice if they try to create true stealth accounts. I actually think it's going to be pretty much impossible if you want to sell in any meaningful volume. I ain't stealing an NI number and bogus ones will surely be detected in time.

I wonder if HMRC will employ a small army of new recruits to manage all this new custom like is happening in America.

Seems to me that low volume stealthers might slip under the radar, but that's not what most stealthers want to achieve.

IMO, and I appreciate I'm only throwing ideas into the air like everyone else, id that you either provide a real NI number and the person who owns it is in on the deal and happy to potentially pay your tax (madness if you ask me) or you look at the Limited Company route and keep personal taxation out of the equation.

One thing is for sure, it's a huge task for all platforms (not just selling) to collect NI numbers if true in a mere 12 months or so. Will they suspend those who don't?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of ebay/Amazon/etsy/Airbnb etc as they mull over what to do next?

Treat your existing accounts well, getting another could become very hard indeed.

[Freakzilla]

The guidance states National Insurance have to be supplied with the data in January 2025

[Freakzilla]

Are you going to ask them if it's ok to have stealth accounts in made up names as long as you pay the tax on it?

Originally Posted by chris100

I may be in a position to confirm this in a few weeks. Assisting HMRC at the moment with my tax affairs.
I will report back to say whether they are only interested in tax.

[chris100]

Originally Posted by Freakzilla

Are you going to ask them if it's ok to have stealth accounts in made up names as long as you pay the tax on it?

I'll find out if there is a problem.

[mrsalexia]

Amazon seller requires doc verification and selfie verification, so how do you call that a "stealth" if you using real tax number?