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Bending over and taking it
 

I just received a DVD returned by customer who wants a replacement. It appears to have been gouged with a blunt image: there is a scratch in it so deep that it nearly comes through the other side. There is no way in hell that he received it in this condition - I can't imagine any kind of factory error that would do this, and the case is undamaged. But if I refuse he files an A-to-Z Claim AND I get bad feedback out of it. SO I swallow the loss and send the f**king thief a replacement.

Again, just venting.

Vent on - I hear your woes bud - pretty crappy what people can get away with but yeah - don't replacement. Cancel the order, refund - I think Amazon won't let him post feedback...but I could be wrong. Once a problem customer, ALWAYS a problem customer.

Amazon will allow feedback to be posted after an order is canceled and after a refund is posted too. Even if you cancel an order before confirming shipment, they can leave feedback. No escape from the utterly one-sided, fraud-inducing Amazon system!

Of course, I admire you simply because you sell DVDs. It's a famous area for arbitrary suspensions by Amazon.

I've had very little bad feedback (and worked hard to keep it that way), but I've gotten a few in cases where I was unable to ship something and even though I apologized profusely the customer filed bad feedback. I don't even think they went out of their way or realized what it meant - just got the automatically generated feedback request letter from Amazon, clicked on, said "Never got my item" and checked "1." (Of course I contacted them to ask if they would consider removing it, and several times they did. But it takes very little bad feedback to screw up your rating.)

I suggest considering using legal threats, especially if the feedback is personal. I've removed two or three negatives this way that would have never gotten removed otherwise. These idiot buyers don't care or understand that a single negative can ruin your account and possibly ruin your life (if you sell full-time). And Amazon doesn't care enough about sellers to remind buyers to be responsible when leaving feedback.

If the feedback is personal it's pretty easy to get it taken down by Amazon. In most cases I don't think it's even intended maliciously - people just don't realize how destructive it can be. And a lot of people just don't read their email, or else assume that an email arriving with the generic headline (which is the only way we can send it because we have to go through the Amazon filter) is just another reminder about their order that they don't need to read.

You don't ever want to threaten someone when it comes to feedback, on any site. That just makes people mad. Best bet is to refund, move on, and sell 100 more.

You don't ever want to threaten someone when it comes to feedback

Believe it or not, it does work when it's framed in a manner in which the buyer is made to see that his/her feedback was libelous & damaging to the seller.

Well in my experiences you just open a can of worms. DVD's are high volume sales anyway. Do you really have the time to send someone threats? Use ebay as an example... they're feedback system is so messed up now you need to beg plead and grovel to get good feedback. Back in the day this worked, but now you have no recourse when someone leaves you a negative.... IT SUCKS. I know Amazon is a bit different...My best advice is to issue the 20 dollar refund and move on. They're super touch with DVD accounts.

With DVD's, I certainly agree. I was actually referring to higher value items, such as the $250+ software I would regularly sell. My bad. DVD sales are a can of worms to begin with, on Amazon.

No amount of money is worth an annoying and angry customer...I have been there many times. You just gotta take the hit and cancel the order.

I would suggest NEVER threatening a buyer on Amazon. It is one thing to try to make your case to them and the customer in a polite way, but threats are really not a good idea.

To MrMondo - I don't know anything about you or about what you sell. So please don't think I am implying you sell counterfeits - I'm not.

I have to say though, that some of these discs coming out of China look like they have come out of a wood chipper. Or else they put the DVD's in a clothes dryer for a couple of hours before they send them. Scratches galore, skipping discs, gouges, chips, broken plastic... Back when I did the DVD thing, my theory was that these were the factory reject discs from the factories producing them for the studios.

But even the BEST factories with the highest quality control standards can let one slip through. So, my point is that the DVD **MAY** have been damaged before it was packaged.

I lasted for almost ten years doing my thing on Amazon, so I think I know a thing or two. Buyers get scared when they carelessly leave negative feedback and you use terms like "libel" and "lawsuit". It doesn't hurt that it has actually happened in the past.

No offense, I don't care what you did ten years ago on Amazon or eBay. It's not even the same site anymore. Bragging about how feedback worked over the last decade is like talking about how Pangaea is the most beautiful continent. The game is different now.

I wasn't on Amazon ten years ago, I was there until a couple weeks ago, just got started on the first stealth account. I've been selling heavily for the past 4 years.

You posted above you lasted for nearly ten years selling on Amazon....

I did. Most of those years were light selling. I sold heavily for the last 4 years or so. I moved from eBay to Amazon as eBay was going bananas. Now I am trying to move some of the business back to eBay as Amazon goes bananas and becomes completely unaccountable.

haha... what makes you think ebay is more accountable? Amazon just has better tracking.

I think they've gotten a little better, honestly. I'd describe Amazon's style as more arbitrary. Most of the bogus rules we slave under are created by so-called category managers who basically have unlimited power to do whatever they like. The only sellers who are free to do whatever on Amazon are the corporate, "featured" sellers.

For example, the category manager in software may decide that Windows XP Pro SP2 (and this is a real situation) may only be sold in the "used, very good" condition by non-corporate big box sellers. Or they may decide to limit sales of Adobe CS2, CS4, and CS5 products to corporate sellers only. I had 100% feedback and no complaints, but my application to sell against some of these listings were denied off the bat.

I'm not that kind of seller. Strictly legit dealer in hard to find and out of print movies. I've been dealing in DVDs and VHS for many years, and I'm 99% sure this disk did not come from the factory this way. Fortunately it wasn't an expensive one - I just hate letting a thief get away with it so blatantly.

Nothing you can do. Amazon is totally about the buyer, mostly because they are a bunch of corporate cowards. Expect more detail when I launch my Amazon website in about two weeks. Hope to bring their feet closer to the fire.

Amazon website? do tell

Knowing Amazon's cowardice, I will be launching a boycott Amazon website with the intent of exposing their seller abuse and fraud. If successful, we may get some concessions to make selling a little more fair. I plan to run exposes on sellers who sold honestly on Amazon but were thrown off for BS, arbitrary reasons.

I personally think that would just drive traffic to Amazon.

A customer recently told me he received TWO of these reminders from Amazon to leave feedback.

I personally think that would just drive traffic to Amazon.

Maybe, but the only thing that matters is what Amazon thinks about it, not what actually happens.

Yep that's what I would do. I always refund them even for buyers remorse, well except this one, we'll see....

I just had a buyer not only demand a refund, but make all of these accusations that I sent him a used item that it has labels ripped off and all kinds of stuff. He demanded I pay for his return shipping of the product also. Not sure what I am going to do, he is a real criminal in my opinion. Ignoring all my emails inquiring if the package appeared opened etc..even sent him pics of the product so he can't say much

I know I have an obligation to send him to A-Z so it will be on record but I honestly think they will even deny him by the way he treats me. He said thank you when I agreed to refund him but betcha that he won't send the item back to me. If it goes to A-Z and Amazon refunds him, i will take him to small claims court (he lives like an hour and a half away)

They are not required to send the item back. It's in the small print in the returns section of Amazon's guidelines. Yes, it really is there; go see for yourself.

Yes, I've read that on here before. I ask them the send it back when they are being difficult, only twice otherwise they just keep it

I sent him $20 and he sent it back to me priority mail with del. confirmation and it arrived opened. He opened it! which is why he ignores my inquiries of how it was pilfered with, how did the box look etc..

I am sure he wants a refund but my account is on a review so I can't do it.

They didn't tell me how long it is on review but it has no negatives, a 4% late rate which is not my fault (their computer problems) no chargebacks or a-z, all 5 stars with 25% of my customers leaving feedback at 85 transactions. I appealed but forgot to include tracking numbers.

So I don't know when they will let me have my money to refund him, no way do I have it now right before Xmas.

And don't trust him to send him anything in the mail, he'll likely say he didn't get it. I may need to kiss this account with my real info goodbye...:violin:

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Do they usually avoid leaving bad feedback if you refund them?

Do they usually avoid leaving bad feedback if you refund them?
Honestly, no. be sure you hammer that out before issuing a refund. Making the customer feel a tad bit guilty is the key.

I can't recall a specific instance of getting bad feedback after giving a buying a refund, but I don't want to say it has never happened. In general they don't. But I'm sure there are cases where a buyer gets the Amazon form letter asking for feedback on a specific purchase (the one that most buyers ignore); they read it and because they're bored click it on and leave what they consider an appropriate feedback - "product was received damaged, 3 stars." They have no idea that such a rating is incredibly damaging and will have real consequences to a real person.

Couldn't have put it better, Mr Mondo. "Careless" is the one word to describe Amazon buyers all right.

I don't really blame the buyers. A sensible system would allow for recognition of the occasional slip or poor performance on a seller's part without taking down their businesses entirely (or at least knocking a big hole in it). The way Amazon has it set up, you really only get a score of plus or minus (or 5 is plus, 1, 2 and 3 are all minus). Therefore every seller either has a rating of 95+ or is out of business. (Buyers are equally to blame here in that they only tend to vote 5 or 1.) In a better system very few sellers would rate 100%.

You forgot one part of Amazon's philosophy. The 95%+ system only applies to small sellers. Amazon loves corporate c*ck; the corporate sellers are exempt from these same requirements. I know this for a fact.

You are SOOOOOOOOOO right here on this one. I sell these corporate sellers with 75% feedback with a lot of negatives and nothing happens to them. If that was any of us we would be gone along time ago.

So I'm looking to get some advice from this group. Made a sale 3 months ago on Amazon and now the customer is looking for a refund claiming that the item they received is damaged. I know that Amazon's return policy is 30 days correct? I'm just concerned that since they haven't left me a feedback, they're going to leave something negative. Do you guys know if they can still open an A-Z Claim?

What would you guys do?

TIA!

I believe the policy is 60 days for feedback and 90 days for A to Z. You're in the clear feedback-wise, so if you're close to 90 days, I advise trying to drag it out!

The sale was made on 9/7/2010, so I'm past the 90 days.

As far as feedback, I still see a button in the transaction for me to leave him a feedback though. When I click on it, seems like I can still leave him a feedback...

Yes, that is because you have only 60 days to leave feedback if I am correct.